Optimizing 3D's potential using Darbee Video Processors

[infiniteCR]

So i've been hearing a lot of positive things about this device for increasing the contrast of movies. I kind of passed on it for my 2D viewing since everything looks great.

On 3D films though I tend to think the image could be a bit better since the contrast ratio goes down significantly on my plasma.

I'd be interested in hearing about the differences it makes for 3D movies if anyone has set one up with 3D viewing in mind?

edit: I think I got this in the wrong 3d forum. Hopefully a mod can move it over for me. Apologies!

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

So i've been hearing a lot of positive things about this device for increasing the contrast of movies. I kind of passed on it for my 2D viewing since everything looks great.

On 3D films though I tend to think the image could be a bit better since the contrast ratio goes down significantly on my plasma.

I'd be interested in hearing about the differences it makes for 3D movies if anyone has set one up with 3D viewing in mind?

edit: I think I got this in the wrong 3d forum. Hopefully a mod can move it over for me. Apologies!

It makes the same difference as it does for 2d. It remains when used best subtle.

[HDM_fan]

Subtle is the keyword. whether 2D or 3D. I can only tell the difference when I A/B a few times with the Darbee effects on/off.

[Paul H]

This is an ongoing 3D enthusiasts home project in development which I am posting in 3D topic forums for member feedback and for any relevant information and helpful opinions.

Optimizing 3D's potential using Darbee Video Processors

This post is for those of you who love 3D and might be interested in a 3D enthusiast's opinion about what is out there that can boost stereopsis recognition. Being able to see what is available on the screen. Existing information from depth-cue's the eyes can see and the brain can interpret with conscious recognition as familiarity, while observing what seems to be real-world boundary placement. Quality 3D optimization IMO.

First I want to clarify that I personally haven't found benefits using a chain of Darbee Darblet's for 2D. For me, one-Darbee set @ 30 Hi Def, is sufficient for most viewing.

Have now tested chains of up to four Darbee's which exhibit IMO, extremely impressive positive results from a project intended strictly for 3D viewing, using only Blu-ray 3D media with various 3D displays.

Tried a number of different settings and I'll just say the Darbee's order is extremely important where each unit, set differently, is placed in the chain.

Observation experiences: Recognizing noticeable solidity of volume with increased space separation, which I compare to real-world settings. The stereopsis has a normal feeling to the eyes, which I interpret as natural to the vision boundary. A pleasant feeling adding to the visually exciting moments.

Findings: IMO, a significant 3D visual improvement. Greater image boundary involvement that impresses, which is not there without the setup.

My developing opinion as to cause and effect: Suspecting that the significant illusion changes come from greater visibility of depth-cue's, made more apparent to the eyes, which are already subtly there in native live-action real-world captured images and in CGI creations that imbed the necessary information in the images. Analyzed from various equipment settings & order placement stages, it feels natural, not like artificial apparition creations. The 3D phenomena seems to follow natural recognizable pattern flows in the images dimensional detail. Instinct interprets this as "familiar" to me as real-world appearance and placement.

It's a great thrill for me, as a 3D enthusiast, because it produces positive results!
My wife and family tell me they appreciate the difference when the system is connected and turned on and I intend to entertain company with 3D movies with the current setup during the holidays.

Also, as an enthusiast, it's important to mention that artifacting is not visibly noticeable, I believe this is because all the units are set at very low settings, but the significant computational results become profound on the displays. Just my opinion.

Thanks for listening!
__________________________________________________ ___________


Per Jrek: (From another site.)

So what are your 3d settings I use one darbee and have it at 15 full pop for 3d . Would love to know what your whole set-up is I love tweaking 3d I have found it can make a bigger difference with 3d. I use a dlp proj. And a lumagen mini along with the darbee and thats with a panasonic bluray player. Thanks for sharing I always wondered if moredarbees would make a difference. Thanks Jim

At the moment I have two different on-going projects. One has a 4 Darbee-chain-setup using Oppo 103 with Panasonic VT25 Active 3D 65" display. The second setup has a 3 Darbee-chain with Oppo 103D (as-the-fourth-Darbee), with 3D OLED headset.

Illusional 3D plane separation with both setups become IMO, *extraordinarily real-world apparent. A binocular vision good-perception-of-depth experience that gives recognizable satisfaction from Blu-ray 3Ds I've chosen to play. *( I use the word "extraordinarily" instead of "noticeably" in the first sentence of this paragraph because there is familiarity recognition taking place that this is how I see the view in the real world.)

Current setup-chains for both systems are similar: First-Unit (Darblet or 103D) set @ 30 Hi Def, Second-Unit (both Darblet's) set @ 30 Full Pop, Third Unit (both Darblet's) set @ 30 Game, Fourth Unit (both Darble's) set @ 30 Hi Def; and this seems to be important in end-placement (A setting of Hi Def at the beginning and Hi Def at the end of the chain), because it counteracts a particular intermittent noticeable artifact that sometimes develops with one live-action 3D movie with the VT25 plasma display, if it is placed in a different position.

Unit-chains connect with Monoprice 1ft 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI® With Ethernet Cable w_ Net Jacket - Black. Units plugin to power-up via one-switch - surge suppression bar per each setup.

[Paul H]

From the Darblet DVP-5000 FAQ page:

Can I daisy-chain two or more Darblets in series? =What is the effect?

You can daisy-chain two or more Darblets and you will notice a compounding effect. Most likely you will use a reduced setting for each Darblet.

Over the weekend I performed a project to experiment on how many Darbee Darblet's it would take in "daisy-chain" for maximum depth-cue enhancement possibility, having on-hand seven Darblet's from two different system setups.

Found that maximum visual results for reference quality 3D benefits ends with the fourth Darblet unit when each unit is set @ 30 Full-Pop, for the "strongest depth and realism" that can be produced in a "daisy-chain".

Adding a 5th Darblet starts to introduce unwelcome characteristics. Examples of "unwelcome" visuals includes the intensity in facial blemishes which would normally look subtle if not invisible. Individual skin-pores become visible on the face, where skin normally looks smooth, it starts to take on a rough look. Freckles and moles become pronounced and prominent, especially darker blemishes.

Found that when adding a 6th Darbee Darblet in "daisy-chain" the system stops working. No picture.

[Paul H]

1st system: Here is a picture of the 4 Darbee "daisy-chain" system behind Pasasonic VT25 3D 65" 3D Pasma TV:
(3 Darblets on the bottom, 1 on top of the picture)

[IMG][/IMG]


2nd system (4 DVP system) 3 Darblet's & Oppo 103D not shown: Coming from an Oppo 103D to a 3 Darbee "daisy-chain" and into a 3D Headset base (Headset is resting on base).

[IMG][/IMG]

[Blu-Dog]

Is this something popular in the UK? I've never seen one of these units for sale, or even advertised in the United States. I think it's included in some Oppo units.


The calibrators at the Video Shootout were pretty dismissive of Darbee at the show...didn't even want to discuss it.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Is this something popular in the UK? I've never seen one of these units for sale, or even advertised in the United States. I think it's included in some Oppo units.

The Darbee Darblet 5000 is sold on several sites. Amazon.com has several listings and has always been a good place for price comparison for my past holiday purchases, AVS has sold them early-on when Darbee's benefits were first discovered, and then there is always the manufacturer's original Darbee visual presence site.

Some great deals were offered in the past by the above places, but prices have gone up a few times since they have become popular.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

The calibrators at the Video Shootout were pretty dismissive of Darbee at the show...didn't even want to discuss it.

People tend to love it or hate it on 2D forums, and little has been discussed anywhere that I'm aware of about tests and projects on 3D optimization benefits.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Is this something popular in the UK? I've never seen one of these units for sale, or even advertised in the United States. I think it's included in some Oppo units.

My residence is in the USA but there is the Oppo - Darbee Visual Processing technology (DVP) on their 103D-eu and 105D-eu European versions. And there is European Darbee Darblet 5000 - DVP-info at Home Cinema Choice.

[Paul H]

Latest settings used to maximize visual 3D illusional effectiveness for 3D space separation and 3D image clarity from Blu-ray 3D media.

Results are the following:
Using a Chain of Four Darbee Darblets:
1st Darblet closest to 3D Blu-ray player: Full POP set to 35.
2nd Darblet set to High Def 35.
3rd Darblet set to Game 35.
4th Darblet set to Full POP 30.

1st Darblet gives a needed contrast boost that clarifies and visually accentuates the 3D illusion.

2nd Darblet boosts the over-all resolution quality necessary for clear visual recognition of the images that will continue as enhancement progresses down the chain.

The 3rd Darblet, set to Game 35 increases what I call depth cue image brightness at the pixel level, allowing the darkest scenes and illusional depth of 3D films such as "Fright Night" to be visible. It's the difference from missing character action and surroundings to seeing naturally and clear, intended detail. This is additionally verified as what is visibly evident in 2D versions. Night scenes and areas with no-lighting present, become noticeably visible and naturally evident.

The 4th Darblet closest to the display, set to Full Pop, seems to be the most essential unit. It makes the optimization worth the effort, viewed in-and-out of the screen.
The 4th unit is set to 30 for two basic reasons. First, it effectively eliminates visible artifacts that occasional can manifest randomly as image "edge-noise", introduced with higher 35 chain settings. Second, the 3D-image becomes immaculately clear and window-like as if all the units are set at the lower level of 30 and most importantly the 3D illusion becomes the most pronounced.

[ZIROK]

I use Photoshop and have a plugin call AutoEye. by AutoFX.com (check it out)
been around for years and it appears that this device does the same effect as this still image plugin but applies it to Video.

[Joe D.]

Anybody try the Darbee dvp 5000s?

http://www.darbeevision.com/products/dvp5000s

As one reviewer wrote:

"Darbee and 3D

"Few people ever seem to rave (care?) about the quality of their TV’s 3D image. But this is another area where the DVP 5000 proved useful. The 3D Blu-rays I checked out with Darbee processing active all looked notably better: the picture depth was greater, the highlights and shadows punchier. It didn’t do anything to eliminate the 3D crosstalk artifacts on the set I watched with, but it also didn’t make them worse."

https://hdguru.com/darbeevision-darb...p-5000-review/

There are mixed reviews on whether or not it is worth it for regular blu ray, cable or DVD:

http://www.soundstagexperience.com/i...video-enhancer

https://theguycornernyc.com/2016/06/...0s-the-review/

Saw it going for $150 at Crutchfeld.

[nycomet]

I have one DarbeeVision DVP-5000 Darblet and I clearly see a noticeable difference on my 135-inch screen with Darbee activated. (I believe forum member Paul H daisy chains FOUR Darbees in his set-up!).

My eyes perceive more contrast and a sharper image. It might be an illusion, but to me it brings the quality of the viewing experience up a few notches.

At this point I will not upgrade to the new Darbee device, as the one I have does a great job.

My next upgrade will be adding Atmos/DTS:X to my home theater. Further out, I might consider a projector upgrade (no rush). I am waiting for more details and pricing on the soon-to-be-released BenQ 11000. From what I've read so far, it will offer 4K (and 4K upscaling). The question is: will it be 3D compatible? I still do not know the answer to that question.

[Joe D.]

Originally Posted by nycomet

I have one DarbeeVision DVP-5000 Darblet and I clearly see a noticeable difference on my 135-inch screen with Darbee activated. (I believe forum member Paul H daisy chains FOUR Darbees in his set-up!).

My eyes perceive more contrast and a sharper image. It might be an illusion, but to me it brings the quality of the viewing experience up a few notches.

At this point I will not upgrade to the new Darbee device, as the one I have does a great job.

My next upgrade will be adding Atmos/DTS:X to my home theater. Further out, I might consider a projector upgrade (no rush). I am waiting for more details and pricing on the soon-to-be-released BenQ 11000. From what I've read so far, it will offer 4K (and 4K upscaling). The question is: will it be 3D compatible? I still do not know the answer to that question.

Hi nycomet,

Thanx for the feedback.

Am sure with a screen that size you would know if it works or not.

Might very well order one through crutchfeld since that gives me two months to play around with it and also have ten dollars in bonus points bringing cost down to $140. An early Chanukah present from a Gentile wife to her Jewish husband?

Too bad would be unable to use it for cable since use separate inputs but don't think my better half would allow us to go Paul's route doubling the expense. She can live watching QVC without enhancement.

[althus]

Yes it does. But to be clear, it improves the shadow detail, texture and details of the picture making it pop more, the same as with 2d. It does not improve the stereo separation making it more 3D.

[althus]

Originally Posted by Joe D.

Too bad would be unable to use it for cable since use separate inputs

That's how I started but I love it so much and I feel it makes even more of a difference with cable. I would switch inputs back and forth until I got a new receiver and fixed the problem. I keep it very low for high quality sources like blu-rays but increase it for cable. Some say no way, anything that alters the image in any way is bad. I say it's awesome and wouldn't watch anything without it. Try it and see for yourself.

[Joe D.]

Got it today. It's great!

Amazed by the additional clarity and detail it delivers. Color is stronger not uniformly but in places like shades within flesh tones, sunlight affecting grass, etc. 3D picture is stronger and dimension is slightly enhanced not by more depth but by the additional detail within that depth.

Definitely worth the investment.

Only thing it just comes with instructions for connections on the back of the box. Though simple to use, there is a card giving it's website which will provide how go get started.

Though my switch box was rated compatible, the Blu ray picture kept flickering. Realized could use my a/v receiver for cable and discs and it resolved the problem. Didn't use receiver in the past for I thought hi def settings for cable could be different from other devices. Now know that is not the case.

[nycomet]

^^^^^^^

Hey there Joe,

I am glad you are happy with the Darbee. Last night I was viewing Star Wars The Force Awakens in 3D and I started playing with the settings on my Darbee. I can confirm that you are right about the increase in color pop on certain settings. Improvements with contrast, brightness, sharpness and color intensity are all affected by the Darbee.

What equipment are you viewing your movies on? Are you using a projector and projection screen? If so, what is your screen size and which projector are you using?

Have a great Thanksgiving holiday!

[pjb3]

I'm curious how Darbee is different than adjusting the setting on your TV such as sharpness, color, etc.

[Joe D.]

Originally Posted by nycomet

^^^^^^^

Hey there Joe,

I am glad you are happy with the Darbee. Last night I was viewing Star Wars The Force Awakens in 3D and I started playing with the settings on my Darbee. I can confirm that you are right about the increase in color pop on certain settings. Improvements with contrast, brightness, sharpness and color intensity are all affected by the Darbee.

What equipment are you viewing your movies on? Are you using a projector and projection screen? If so, what is your screen size and which projector are you using?

Have a great Thanksgiving holiday!

Hi nycomet,

Hey, thanks so much. It's great and I do mean GREAT!

My set up is modest. A Sony kdl50w800b 50 inch active 3D set and Sony low cost 3D Blu ray player along with a Panasonic DVD recorder, Denon receiver, phase technology main speakers, Yamaha surrounds and Polk subwoofer.

Used Disney Wow for the HD adjustments. Beforehand was using separate inputs on the set for the video devices but now connected them to the Denon. With the darbee off saw my picture adjustments remained same except color lowered from 60 to 59.

Have the darbee set to 60% on the HD setting for cable and 70 for Blu Ray which uses the same "custom mode" adjustments.

For my DVD-r's I use slightly different user settings in the "standard" setting to get them to match the original HD source in terms of color, contrast, etc as much as posdible. These are movies recorded off TCM, HBO, etc with flexible recording speeds recorded via s-video output and naturally up converted. Can see a difference even on these. Though not Blu ray quality, they stand up on their own quite nicely and with the darbee would say it's now a 7.8 out of 10 compared to the original where before it was a 7. American in Paris is beautiful, even in this format and a softer picture. Increased darbee to 70.

DVDs look great depending upon the quality. Watch those on my "vivid" setting for color is washed out using HD adjustments. Know vivid is bright but used the THX optimizer on star wars III to account for that. For this I have the darbee increased to 70 as well. Star wars looked great, the demo showed how much it brought it to near Blu ray. On the other hand, my dvd of GiGi was still disappointing so ordered the Blu ray last night.

The darbee does all this without distortion. Increased detail does not come with any harshness and improper edge enhancement, over saturation, etc.

We watched monsters university in 3D last night and it was indeed a wow compared to turning the darbee off.

Comet. You and yours have a great gobble gobble!