The Jungle Book (Disney 1967) in Full Frame

[Frank169]

Although the preview trailer for The Jungle Book Blu-ray suggested the full frame 4:3 image, all we got was only the (top & bottom) cropped version to fit the image width onto a 16:9 screen.

A UHD release could finally fix the issue, i.e. provide audiences with the choice between the (pillar-boxed) full frame 4:3 image or the (cropped) 16:9 image.

Until then I hold on to my 4:3 DVD (and CAV LaserDisc)...

[Eddiedane]

I just consulted with Floyd Norman, who worked in the story department on the film. He boarded the "Trust in Me" sequence and had near constant contact with Walt Disney during production. He says the aspect ratio of the film is, was and always should be 1.85:1. Hope this helps.

[that1guystudios]

Originally Posted by Eddiedane

I just consulted with Floyd Norman, who worked in the story department on the film. He boarded the "Trust in Me" sequence and had near constant contact with Walt Disney during production. He says the aspect ratio of the film is, was and always should be 1.85:1. Hope this helps.

Hello Eddie - I would love it if Floyd could provide the forum with some additional information on this based on the information below:

All historical information shows that 1.85:1 was not an aspect ratio that Disney used up until the mid to late 1980's.

Most Disney films outside of the scope pictures (Lady and Sleeping Beauty) were animated at 1.37:1 Academy ratio and allowed exhibitors to crop/mask the image up to a certain range in the theater.
The go to "up to" ratio for most Disney films was 1.75:1.

Per the 1978 press book for the Re-Release of The Jungle Book:
"THE ASPECT RATIO FOR A SWINGIN' IMAGE IS 1.75 to 1"

The film was definitely animated at 1.33:1 as it's negative shows that full frame image. Pressbooks from the same era at Disney also stated other films being re-released that were animated at 1.33:1 such as Bambi and Dumbo should have been projected at that same ratio even thought it clearly results in poor framing and inappropriate cropping.

The Jungle Book was presented in it's Full-Frame 1.33:1 on home Video up until it's Diamond Edition release. The full-frame image was restored but cropped for Blu-ray release - both versions could be released on Home Video. When watching the film in 1.75:1 it is very clear that the image is cropped more severely than some other titles - and it does result in odd framing.

I personally believe that the 1.75:1 version of the film improperly crops too much information on the top, bottom and the sides and that the 1.75:1 version doesn't reveal enough of the frame in any direction. Mary Poppins was also presented incorrectly this way on home video in previous incarnations. The Home Video 1.33:1 version appears to be missing information on the sides as well while clearly having headroom on the top and bottom for matting.

For more information see this thread:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=91650

Here's an example of the framing differences:

[Frank169]

Originally Posted by Eddiedane

I just consulted with Floyd Norman, who worked in the story department on the film. He boarded the "Trust in Me" sequence and had near constant contact with Walt Disney during production. He says the aspect ratio of the film is, was and always should be 1.85:1. Hope this helps.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1294

Could you please ask him, then, why the vintage projection recommendations for The Jungle Book for theater owners did not recommend any aspect ratio?

The lack of such instructions clearly left it up to the theater owner and his projectionist to choose an aspect ratio they deemed would work best for their theater and for my home theater I'd like to have the same choice.

[NuXiaolin]

Originally Posted by Frank169

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1294

Could you please ask him, then, why the vintage projection recommendations for The Jungle Book for theater owners did not recommend any aspect ratio?

The lack of such instructions clearly left it up to the theater owner and his projectionist to choose an aspect ratio they deemed would work best for their theater and for my home theater I'd like to have the same choice.

By 1967, academy ratio was obsolete. Matting would have been standard and for many cinemas the only option.

[Eddiedane]

Honestly, I thought it was amusing that Floyd walked by my desk just as I'd read the original post and that's the only reason I asked. In his extraordinarily good natured way, he seemed pretty contemptuous of the question, noting that it was focusing on about the least interesting aspect of the film to him. He's not the one who said 1.85:1, he said "wide screen". I put that AR up because I couldn't care less between 1.85 and 1.75. I can confirm that all internal materials for HD are at 1.75:1. This time I measured. There has been no HD master created at 1.33 that I can locate.

[that1guystudios]

Originally Posted by Eddiedane

Honestly, I thought it was amusing that Floyd walked by my desk just as I'd read the original post and that's the only reason I asked. In his extraordinarily good natured way, he seemed pretty contemptuous of the question, noting that it was focusing on about the least interesting aspect of the film to him. He's not the one who said 1.85:1, he said "wide screen". I put that AR up because I couldn't care less between 1.85 and 1.75. I can confirm that all internal materials for HD are at 1.75:1. This time I measured. There has been no HD master created at 1.33 that I can locate.

Awesome, thank you for double checking. The HD master at 1.33:1 is shown in the original Blu-ray "coming soon" preview. A second trailer was later released where it is cropped to 1.75:1.

Here is a link on YouTube.

The Jungle Book (Diamond Edition) March 2014 Trailer - YouTube

Here is the same trailer but at 1.75:1

The Jungle Book (1967) - Diamond Edition Trailer - YouTube

Eddiedane - are you a Disney employee/cast member?

[Eddiedane]

I work in Disney publishing as a video editor/producer

[WonkaBedknobs83]

Those bylines from those exhibitor pressbooks tell us nothing about whether the original 35mm prints of the 1.75/1.85 movies were hard-matted at those ratios or whether they were Academy ratio so that theaters could crop them to the recommended ratio themselves.

[Wummyhulk]

Originally Posted by Frank169

Although the preview trailer for The Jungle Book Blu-ray suggested the full frame 4:3 image, all we got was only the (top & bottom) cropped version to fit the image width onto a 16:9 screen.

A UHD release could finally fix the issue, i.e. provide audiences with the choice between the (pillar-boxed) full frame 4:3 image or the (cropped) 16:9 image.

Until then I hold on to my 4:3 DVD (and CAV LaserDisc)...

That's just what I was thinking, they should release The Jungle Book on DVD/Blu-ray/4K UHD in both fullscreen and widscreen aspect ratio. Somebody should talk to the Walt Disney company about it.

[Brayden96]

Disney can't even be bothered remastering many movies nowadays, there's no way they would do two separate versions of a movie like this for a small group of people. They would just use the aspect ratio they have used for years.

[Wummyhulk]

I've been wanting a open matted fullscreen version of the Jungle Book on DVD/Blu-ray/4K UHD for a while now, but people are saying it's never going to happen because widescreen is the intended aspect ratio, and that really bugs the hell out of me.

[Wummyhulk]

If it were up to me, the first thing I would do is restore the full screen version of the Jungle Book as a special feature for future releases on DVD/Blu-ray/4K UHD, give viewers the option of both fullscreen and widescreen.