When will DVD production stop?

[3db]

I'm guessing that BluRay is now the mainstream and has now surpassed DVD in sales. I don't where 4K falls into this realm. That being said, when will DVD production stop?

[steve_dave]

DVD is still outselling Blu-ray.

[InuYashaCrusade]

Blu-ray is not mainstream.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by InuYashaCrusade

Blu-ray is not mainstream.

I don't think that's really true. That is certainly true of 4K UHD discs, but not Blu-Ray.

Yes, DVD still outsells Blu-Ray on average, but it's not like Blu-Ray is just scraping by.

Saying that Blu-Ray is not mainstream and is therefore more obscure in the realm of home entertainment formats is like saying that Burger King is an obscure, non-mainstream fast food restaurant because McDonalds makes more money than them.

[homevideogeek]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I don't think that's really true. That is certainly true of 4K UHD discs, but not Blu-Ray.

Yes, DVD still outsells Blu-Ray on average, but it's not like Blu-Ray is just scraping by.

Saying that Blu-Ray is not mainstream and is therefore more obscure in the realm of home entertainment formats is like saying that Burger King is an obscure, non-mainstream fast food restaurant because McDonalds makes more money than them.

I hate to say it, but Blu-ray is still just out of mainstream. It won't be mainstream until studios stop farming out huge chunks of their back catalog to niche labels like Shout and Kino and put them out themselves. It's also evidenced by the fact that we have some new release titles that don't come out on Blu-ray at all, or if they do, they're manufacture-on-demand on Blu-ray while the DVD gets retail distribution. I still find it laughable that some studios still put their 20+ year old DVDs (many with older full-screen and/or non-anamorphic transfers) on store shelves instead of Blu-ray. Universal and Disney seem to be the worst offenders on this. There is no reason why Honey I Shrunk The Kids, Turner & Hooch and Apollo 13 original pressing DVDs should still be on store shelves today, especially when the latter has a really good remastered Blu-ray and 4K UHD BD out there that aren't much higher in cost.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by homevideogeek

I hate to say it, but Blu-ray is still just out of mainstream. It won't be mainstream until studios stop farming out huge chunks of their back catalog to niche labels like Shout and Kino and put them out themselves. It's also evidenced by the fact that we have some new release titles that don't come out on Blu-ray at all, or if they do, they're manufacture-on-demand on Blu-ray while the DVD gets retail distribution. I still find it laughable that some studios still put their 20+ year old DVDs (many with older full-screen and/or non-anamorphic transfers) on store shelves instead of Blu-ray. Universal and Disney seem to be the worst offenders on this. There is no reason why Honey I Shrunk The Kids, Turner & Hooch and Apollo 13 original pressing DVDs should still be on store shelves today, especially when the latter has a really good remastered Blu-ray and 4K UHD BD out there that aren't much higher in cost.

It's all a catch-22 situation.

I would say that Blu-Ray, in general, as a format, is still relatively mainstream. When looking at sales charts for specific titles, when huge blockbusters come out (i.e. Star Wars, MCU movies, and the like), they tend to sell more copies on Blu-Ray than on DVD.

New release titles (meaning new/recently made movies) that either don't get a Blu-Ray release or only get it in a limited manufacture on demand form are likely because of a couple of reasons. For one, most films of that sort aren't special effects extravaganzas. And while, yes, all films will benefit from HD and UHD regardless of that, the general public still tends to have this misconception that they don't. You can kind of argue that as a knock against how mainstream Blu-Ray is, but I think it's more of an issue with people's perceptions of what content benefits from it. Many of those people are buying Avengers Infinity War on Blu-Ray, but (when a Blu-Ray option does exist in regular stores) aren't necessarily buying smaller films on Blu-Ray in as big of numbers, which is why DVD tends to win out in those instances sales-wise. The smaller and more niche the title, the more likely it is to come out on fewer formats. DVD wins out because it is the most mainstream overall (i.e. it is the "McDonalds" in this case).

The reasons for many catalog titles getting licensed out to other distributors is because those tend to sell in more limited numbers, especially depending on the films in question.

This is in part because of the aforementioned public misconceptions, but also in part due to what people already have. Among the general "average joe" out there, if they already own a relatively niche catalog title like Doctor Detroit on DVD, they aren't very likely to upgrade to Blu-Ray. This can go for some people who do opt for Blu-Ray for movies that they are buying that they don't already have, but is doubly true for people who might opt to buy a new movie like A Star is Born on DVD instead of Blu-Ray (but still buy Infinity War on Blu-Ray).

It comes down to a matter of perceptions, and cost relatively to the quality and the importance of that to the individual.


I personally have upgraded many titles from DVD to Blu-Ray, and there are others that I still plan to do that with. With 4K Blu-Ray, while I have upgraded some catalog titles and will likely upgrade more over the course of time, there are many catalog titles in my regular Blu-Ray collection that I likely won't upgrade even if they do get a 4K release. While it would be nice to have the higher quality, for some movies, I just don't necessarily have much of a desire to rebuy them for a relatively moderate uptick in quality when I can just reach for my existing Blu-Ray copy that I already have at no further cost beyond what I originally paid for it sometime ago in the past.

What titles I upgrade are dependent in large part to how important the title is to me, and/or how much better the transfer is. If, for instance, the transfer on the existing Blu-Ray is pretty bad, and it gets a good remaster for the 4K release, if the title is important enough to me (but not as important as titles that I would upgrade no matter what) to get a better transfer in general, I'll probably then upgrade to the 4K release since I would likely upgrade it anyway if it was just a newer Blu-Ray with much improved transfer. But if the base transfers are relatively equal, with the 4K version just benefiting from the higher resolution and HDR, I may pass on it. Somehow I think I'll manage to survive if (in the event of a 4K release coming out), I stick with my regular Blu-Ray version of Happy Gilmore and don't upgrade.

For some people, their attitude on whether or not to upgrade from DVD to Blu-Ray is similar to mine for upgrading from Blu-Ray to 4K. There is a limit to how many times some people are willing to rebuy essentially the same thing over and over again just for some degree of an uptick in quality.

[3db]

I'm surprised that DVD still outsells BluRay... I guess its what I see in Walmart or BestBuy where the new releases have a shelf area alotted for BluRay then DVD. I learned something here.... (and they say you can teach an old dog new tricks!! ) .

[Ggould1975]

Also there are alot of stuff that won't make it to bluray. Alot of old tv shows...i can't imagine the Brady bunch, little rascals our gang conedies, the Dennis the menace show that ran from 1959 to 1963 with Jay north, some old cartoons won't make it either like the filmation 80s he man series which I heard the HD prints were destroyed I heard or something. If they released these on bluray I would totally go for it but i seriously doubt it.

[homevideogeek]

Originally Posted by 3db

I'm guessing that BluRay is now the mainstream and has now surpassed DVD in sales. I don't where 4K falls into this realm. That being said, when will DVD production stop?

I still can't fathom why DVD - a technology that was made obsolete the day HDTVs became mainstream, much less 4K displays - is still ticking. VHS movies were easily dead by this time in DVD's life cycle, and studios are shooting themselves in the foot by insisting on keeping standalone DVD releases alive. Blu-ray players are inexpensive and plentiful. There is no reason for DVD players to still exist when Blu-ray and 4K players are backward compatible. All it does is keep them out there as a dirt-cheap (but disposable) option in the market that unknowing people will still gravitate to. You've been able to get a 4K player for $50 for well over a year now, even if it's not a great player. Studios need to stop releasing standalone DVD, give people a phase-in period where they still put out Blu-ray/DVD combo packs for those who haven't upgraded (should have been done years ago) and get everybody up to speed on Blu-ray - which is itself an old and somewhat obsolete format considering how cheap and plentiful 4K TVs have become. With stores rapidly cutting back on shelf space for their movie departments, there is NO room for Blu-ray and DVD to co-exist anymore if you want to give people a good selection of titles to choose from at affordable prices.

</rant>

[andyman1970]

Originally Posted by homevideogeek

I still can't fathom why DVD - a technology that was made obsolete the day HDTVs became mainstream, much less 4K displays - is still ticking. VHS movies were easily dead by this time in DVD's life cycle, and studios are shooting themselves in the foot by insisting on keeping standalone DVD releases alive. Blu-ray players are inexpensive and plentiful. There is no reason for DVD players to still exist when Blu-ray and 4K players are backward compatible. All it does is keep them out there as a dirt-cheap (but disposable) option in the market that unknowing people will still gravitate to. You've been able to get a 4K player for $50 for well over a year now, even if it's not a great player. Studios need to stop releasing standalone DVD, give people a phase-in period where they still put out Blu-ray/DVD combo packs for those who haven't upgraded (should have been done years ago) and get everybody up to speed on Blu-ray - which is itself an old and somewhat obsolete format considering how cheap and plentiful 4K TVs have become. With stores rapidly cutting back on shelf space for their movie departments, there is NO room for Blu-ray and DVD to co-exist anymore if you want to give people a good selection of titles to choose from at affordable prices.

</rant>

One reason could be because many people have computers and laptops that have DVD drive and not Blu-ray drive and having a DVD allows for the possibility of carry the DVD when out on the road for vacations, work or just running errands and needing something to occupy the kids.

[homevideogeek]

Originally Posted by andyman1970

One reason could be because many people have computers and laptops that have DVD drive and not Blu-ray drive and having a DVD allows for the possibility of carry the DVD when out on the road for vacations, work or just running errands and needing something to occupy the kids.

I cannot imagine this is a big enough factor for studios to risk hindering the evolution of physical media. Even if it would, just continue making combo packs with both copies instead of combo packs AND standalone DVD releases. Better yet - make DVD the "manufacture on demand" medium for those that still need the obsolete format, and make Blu-ray the default (rather than the reverse). If streaming is so popular these days, there should be no "portability" reason to keep DVD alive.

I also push back on the assertion that streaming is a high-quality medium. Streaming is a convenience medium.

[andyman1970]

Originally Posted by homevideogeek

I cannot imagine this is a big enough factor for studios to risk hindering the evolution of physical media. Even if it would, just continue making combo packs with both copies instead of combo packs AND standalone DVD releases. Better yet - make DVD the "manufacture on demand" medium for those that still need the obsolete format, and make Blu-ray the default (rather than the reverse). If streaming is so popular these days, there should be no "portability" reason to keep DVD alive.

I also push back on the assertion that streaming is a high-quality medium. Streaming is a convenience medium.

Combo packs is what I primarily buy. I gave streaming a chance and due to factors like limited options on what to watch, most streaming services seem to have the same selection, unrealiable internet service because it can always go down due to weather or other factors and the worst is Digital Rights Management. Why would I want to buy a movie if I can lose it at any given time because the streaming service chose not to renew their license? Then there are places where internet isn't readily availble. Streaming may seem like a convenience but that isn't always the case.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by homevideogeek

I still can't fathom why DVD - a technology that was made obsolete the day HDTVs became mainstream, much less 4K displays - is still ticking. VHS movies were easily dead by this time in DVD's life cycle, and studios are shooting themselves in the foot by insisting on keeping standalone DVD releases alive. Blu-ray players are inexpensive and plentiful. There is no reason for DVD players to still exist when Blu-ray and 4K players are backward compatible. All it does is keep them out there as a dirt-cheap (but disposable) option in the market that unknowing people will still gravitate to. You've been able to get a 4K player for $50 for well over a year now, even if it's not a great player. Studios need to stop releasing standalone DVD, give people a phase-in period where they still put out Blu-ray/DVD combo packs for those who haven't upgraded (should have been done years ago) and get everybody up to speed on Blu-ray - which is itself an old and somewhat obsolete format considering how cheap and plentiful 4K TVs have become. With stores rapidly cutting back on shelf space for their movie departments, there is NO room for Blu-ray and DVD to co-exist anymore if you want to give people a good selection of titles to choose from at affordable prices.

</rant>

DVD wasn’t made obsolete by HDTV or 4K because of one simple reason that VHS never had:

Upscaling

Blu-ray players upscale DVDs to near HD quality so for the majority of actual consumers, why buy a movie again when a DVD looks HD. 4K BD players upscale to near 4K so again, what’s the vast majority of consumers’ incentive?

And then you have elitests and “experts” who keep posting the 4K disc is from a 2K source so why bother with 4K BDs/streaming. Damn the fact that 4K is closer to 2K than HD and resolves resolution & compression better, you might as well stick to Blu-ray or hell just DVDs since the player upscales it anyway.

Streaming is not the enemy in large populations, its the economic landscape and bad education for consumers. DVD always had ads for years proclaiming its superiority over VHS on VHS and television. Blu-ray had those ON BLU-RAY DISCS! That’s a dumb marketing and educating move. The closest you get now is Universal’s rental discs saying get more with Blu-ray: better sound and all the extras in a static ad! Not a commercial and no mention of the visual benefits of Blu-ray. 4K UHD doesn’t even bother with these ads. Without these educational ads, consumers are gonna hold onto those $1 or $3 saved by buying DVDs because DVDs still look good thanks to upscaling.

[78deluxe]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

DVD wasn’t made obsolete by HDTV or 4K because of one simple reason that VHS never had:

Upscaling

Blu-ray players upscale DVDs to near HD quality so for the majority of actual consumers, why buy a movie again when a DVD looks HD. 4K BD players upscale to near 4K so again, what’s the vast majority of consumers’ incentive?

And then you have elitests and “experts” who keep posting the 4K disc is from a 2K source so why bother with 4K BDs/streaming. Damn the fact that 4K is closer to 2K than HD and resolves resolution & compression better, you might as well stick to Blu-ray or hell just DVDs since the player upscales it anyway.

Streaming is not the enemy in large populations, its the economic landscape and bad education for consumers. DVD always had ads for years proclaiming its superiority over VHS on VHS and television. Blu-ray had those ON BLU-RAY DISCS! That’s a dumb marketing and educating move. The closest you get now is Universal’s rental discs saying get more with Blu-ray: better sound and all the extras in a static ad! Not a commercial and no mention of the visual benefits of Blu-ray. 4K UHD doesn’t even bother with these ads. Without these educational ads, consumers are gonna hold onto those $1 or $3 saved by buying DVDs because DVDs still look good thanks to upscaling.

I appreciate and agree with your sentiments that DVD production should have stopped a long time ago.

However, you are just like the rest of them not understanding anything above DVD resoltuion

2K basically is Blu-Ray resolution.

Blu-Ray 1920x1080
2K 2048x1080

You really think 128 horiziontal lines of resoltion matters? No, it doesn't

4K is 3840x 2160

And DVD to 4K upscaling doesn't look anything like a Bluray, even on great equipment.

[David M]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Upscaling

Blu-ray players upscale DVDs to near HD quality

No, they don't.

Originally Posted by steve_dave

so for the majority of actual consumers, why buy a movie again when a DVD looks HD. 4K BD players upscale to near 4K so again, what’s the vast majority of consumers’ incentive?

You can't invent detail that wasn't there to start with. You're putting too much faith in the concept of upscaling.

[huskersports]

Originally Posted by homevideogeek

I still can't fathom why DVD - a technology that was made obsolete the day HDTVs became mainstream, much less 4K displays - is still ticking. VHS movies were easily dead by this time in DVD's life cycle, and studios are shooting themselves in the foot by insisting on keeping standalone DVD releases alive. Blu-ray players are inexpensive and plentiful. There is no reason for DVD players to still exist when Blu-ray and 4K players are backward compatible. All it does is keep them out there as a dirt-cheap (but disposable) option in the market that unknowing people will still gravitate to. You've been able to get a 4K player for $50 for well over a year now, even if it's not a great player. Studios need to stop releasing standalone DVD, give people a phase-in period where they still put out Blu-ray/DVD combo packs for those who haven't upgraded (should have been done years ago) and get everybody up to speed on Blu-ray - which is itself an old and somewhat obsolete format considering how cheap and plentiful 4K TVs have become. With stores rapidly cutting back on shelf space for their movie departments, there is NO room for Blu-ray and DVD to co-exist anymore if you want to give people a good selection of titles to choose from at affordable prices.

</rant>

When Wal-mart goes belly-up, that's when DVD production will stop.

[mrveggieman]

Originally Posted by huskersports

When Wal-mart goes belly-up, that's when DVD production will stop.

^^^^This^^^^^

[GreatGreg]

Odd that you're posting this in a DVD forum, however...

You forget that the most popular medium now is streaming. That is how a majority of viewers get their content.

DVD still has the old stragglers who are not that concerned with the best quality, or the quality is good enough. DVDs are also cheaper.

Those who want higher quality have moved from DVD to streaming and/or BD and 4K physical discs, with streaming taking the lion's share.

4K never really had the chance to take off, and it's starting to diminish already.

Don't forget also that there are lots of markets out there besides the North American market which has really cheap DVD players available.

Also most people are happy watching Cinemascope and IMAX films on their tablets or airplane seat displays or iPhones. (not me!)

There comes a point where people don't care about higher quality, even if it's available, and I think video has hit that with Blu-ray. Audio already hit that back in the 80s with CDs for me.

[starsteam]

About 20% of the movies/shows I currently buy are still DVD only. While SD on BD is a thing, not many studios are bothering. If DVDs are taken out of the picture, I imagine most independent movies and old shows will end up being digital only - and I don't want that. I will continue to support physical no matter the format. Having it in HD is just a plus for me.

I can have a 4K TV to enjoy the best of my collection, but I will always try to keep a standard TV and a player with upscaling abilities so I can continue to enjoy my DVDs.

[tducken]

Interesting topic. I can't speak for everyone but there are only certain movies I care about having HD or better quality. Movies like Robocop, 2001: A Space Odyssey, and Jurassic Park deserve to be watched in the highest resolution possible. However, a movie like Dumb and Dumber or Office Space doesn't really need to look stunning. As long as those kinds of films don't look like total garbage on my tv I'll buy whatever format is the cheapest.