Higher peak bitrate speeds up encoding 'considerably', saves studios money - Blu-ray Forum

Grubert · 01-16-2008, 08:19 AM

Source: Dave Vaughn, quoting sources from Global Digital Media Xchange

Quote:

Warner will continue to do VC-1 encodes, but they are upping the bitrate to the max for BD encodes and according to a very good source at GDMX, this will speed up the encoding process considerably because of not having to hand tweak hard to encode scenes as much. This is one of the benefits of Blu-ray with the higher peak bitrate and will allow cost savings on the encoding side.

bageleaterkkjji · 01-16-2008, 08:24 AM

the website doesnt work but hopefully theyve already been doing this on invasion and the brave one and what not....and not starting in may

Maxell · 01-16-2008, 08:38 AM

sounda about right, especially those fast action sequences that require higher bitrates.

MarekM · 01-16-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grubert

Source: Dave Vaughn, quoting sources from Global Digital Media Xchange

thanx for info !

I'll check that later, link or website is not working at this moment..

Marek

Neo65 · 01-16-2008, 11:29 AM

Tweaking basically means going to the frames that are too complex and takes up too many bits to encode to fit within the normal HD DVD limit. This can be viewed as further optimized encode, but it also requires that the compressionist try to find areas within each frames where further compression subtle artifacts are judged to be 'less visible' to squeeze more bits while important regions do not suffer.

This is one of the strengths of higher headroom and one that helps the studios in another way.

When the resulting disk takes up significantly more space, the impulse to keep multiple exact movies on hdd will be reduced until much bigger HDDs'. In the end people will simply compress the movies further. This is also a deterrence against piracy for few more years.

I expect that at some point, if someone redoes Uni's KK encode, there might be a few surprises. And besides the frequent pulsing effect, I know which frames to point out.

dobyblue · 01-16-2008, 12:34 PM

This is nothing new - I've been saying this for a long time that bandwidth is HD DVD's hamartia and will never allow all studios to bump up number of titles released to anywhere near DVD, were HD DVD to win.

This is a topic that "Cjplay" commented on over a year ago at AVS - for those unaware he is a compressionist for Warner.

That post has since been deleted of course.

Maximus · 01-16-2008, 12:40 PM

They will also be stepping back from their heavy use of DNR...

Josh · 01-16-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

They will also be stepping back from their heavy use of DNR...

As I understand it, the strength of VC-1 is that it DNRs the crap out of scenes that require low bit rate, making them less complex. So that by adding my bit space, the DNR process is removed (or at least, minimized) for VC-1.

patrick99 · 01-16-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

They will also be stepping back from their heavy use of DNR...

Exceedingly welcome news, Max!

Grubert · 01-16-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

They will also be stepping back from their heavy use of DNR...

I hope you're right, Max. Just look at this detail of a Batman Begins frame:

I refuse to admit that a film shot anamorphic 35mm looks consistently so freaking soft. They really really have to re-encode that.

NutsAboutPS3 · 01-16-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

They will also be stepping back from their heavy use of DNR...

Thank goodness for that, so Warner Blu-rays will start to look like real Blu-rays rather than crappy HD DVD ports!

DefTechPioElite · 01-16-2008, 01:34 PM

sweet. higher bitrates ftw

glenn22 · 01-16-2008, 01:39 PM

Very informative thread, and great to know!

MatrixS2000 · 01-16-2008, 01:42 PM

This gives me hope that future WB encodes will cater to BD specs and we won't be getting HD DVD ports any longer. Bring on I Am Legend!

Thanks WB.

Maximus · 01-16-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

This gives me hope that future WB encodes will cater to BD specs and we won't be getting HD DVD ports any longer. Bring on I Am Legend!

Thanks WB.

Sorry to break it to you, I Am Legend will probably be a standard disc rather than a Blu optimised one.

jknuss01 · 01-16-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Sorry to break it to you, I Am Legend will probably be a standard disc rather than a Blu optimised one.

Due to it already being planned and worked on before they made their announcment?

MatrixS2000 · 01-16-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Sorry to break it to you, I Am Legend will probably be a standard disc rather than a Blu optimised one.

/banghead

Was hoping the 3 week delay in the HD DVD release was due to WB actually doing a separate encode....

HDTV1080P · 01-16-2008, 10:15 PM

Most likely as soon as June 2008 Warner might start using high bit rate MPEG-4/AVC and VC- 1 to take advantage of the 50GB space on the BLU-RAY discs. No longer does Warner need to limit the encoding to 30GB since Warner will be BLU-RAY excusive starting June 1st 2008. It will be excellent to see Warner movies encoded with higher bit rates when and if that occurs.

mike79 · 01-16-2008, 10:18 PM

one can only hope

Sonny · 01-16-2008, 10:22 PM

I hope so too. But Uni & Para will give us crappy ports of whats already out. But hopefully they will get with the program soon after going Blu.

01-16-2008, 11:29 AM	#5
Neo65 Senior Member Member since:Sep 2007	Tweaking basically means going to the frames that are too complex and takes up too many bits to encode to fit within the normal HD DVD limit. This can be viewed as further optimized encode, but it also requires that the compressionist try to find areas within each frames where further compression subtle artifacts are judged to be 'less visible' to squeeze more bits while important regions do not suffer. This is one of the strengths of higher headroom and one that helps the studios in another way. When the resulting disk takes up significantly more space, the impulse to keep multiple exact movies on hdd will be reduced until much bigger HDDs'. In the end people will simply compress the movies further. This is also a deterrence against piracy for few more years. I expect that at some point, if someone redoes Uni's KK encode, there might be a few surprises. And besides the frequent pulsing effect, I know which frames to point out. Last edited by Neo65; 01-16-2008 at 11:34 AM.

01-16-2008, 10:15 PM	#18
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	High Bit rate Warner BLU-RAY movies might start showing up in June 2008 or later Most likely as soon as June 2008 Warner might start using high bit rate MPEG-4/AVC and VC- 1 to take advantage of the 50GB space on the BLU-RAY discs. No longer does Warner need to limit the encoding to 30GB since Warner will be BLU-RAY excusive starting June 1st 2008. It will be excellent to see Warner movies encoded with higher bit rates when and if that occurs.

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01-16-2008, 08:24 AM	#2
bageleaterkkjji Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Sep 2007 Location:in the garbage 4K collection:59 Blu-ray collection:322 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:4	the website doesnt work but hopefully theyve already been doing this on invasion and the brave one and what not....and not starting in may

01-16-2008, 08:38 AM	#3
Maxell Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007	sounda about right, especially those fast action sequences that require higher bitrates.

01-16-2008, 12:34 PM	#6
dobyblue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jul 2006 Location:Ontario, Canada Home Theater Gallery:71 4K collection:55 Blu-ray collection:655 Blu-ray reviews: 15	This is nothing new - I've been saying this for a long time that bandwidth is HD DVD's hamartia and will never allow all studios to bump up number of titles released to anywhere near DVD, were HD DVD to win. This is a topic that "Cjplay" commented on over a year ago at AVS - for those unaware he is a compressionist for Warner. That post has since been deleted of course.

01-16-2008, 12:40 PM	#7
Maximus Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Nov 2006	They will also be stepping back from their heavy use of DNR...

01-16-2008, 01:34 PM	#12
DefTechPioElite Expert Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Baltimore, MD Home Theater Gallery:23 Blu-ray collection:108 Blu-ray reviews:1	sweet. higher bitrates ftw

01-16-2008, 01:39 PM	#13
glenn22 Power Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Vancouver, Canada	Very informative thread, and great to know!

01-16-2008, 01:42 PM	#14
MatrixS2000 Power Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Toronto, Canada 4K collection:48 Blu-ray collection:305 Trading Score:6	This gives me hope that future WB encodes will cater to BD specs and we won't be getting HD DVD ports any longer. Bring on I Am Legend! Thanks WB.

01-16-2008, 10:18 PM	#19
mike79 Power Member Member since:May 2007 Location:NYC Blu-ray collection:268 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:1	one can only hope

01-16-2008, 10:22 PM	#20
Sonny Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray reviews:6 Trading Score:1	I hope so too. But Uni & Para will give us crappy ports of whats already out. But hopefully they will get with the program soon after going Blu.

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