Playstation 3 for 104% 25fps Blu-ray playback petition : Please sign!!!

[nicktherockstar]

http://www.petitiononline.com/blu25/petition.html


If you agree with what's below, or just want to help out those of us that do, please sign the petition

a huge thanks!

To the non-informed...

In Europe DVDs were always 25fps. Because TV's run at 50Hz this was perfect because each frame could be shown twice and the picture would be perfectly smooth.

Unfortunately,we now have a standard of showing things in the original 24fps. This causes the judder or jittery image we now see on pan shots with blu-ray on many set-ups now, because the 24 does not fit into 50 or 60 very well at all.

So I ask Sony to add an option to the PS3 (Playstation 3) to speed up Blu-ray playback to 104% so it runs at a smooth 25fps, resulting in a smoother picture for films for those that want it

I for one never noticed DVDs are running slightly faster than nature intended and dont see why we should be forced to watch blu-ray films with judder without paying for a really expensive tv, and even then it might not play well!!!

so please Sony, give us smooth HD films! I know some say it can be minimized with fine tuning but its not good enough for those of use used to 25fps perfectness!

[dk3dknight]

Wouldn't those comments better pressed on SCEE- Sony Computer Entertainment of Europe.

Who could create the pressure to get the changes you need for your region.

If I get this right are you using a Pal tv and want blu-ray to run a little faster in fps to make up for the Pal, right or am I just a right field wack job?

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Wouldn't you need to place your request to the Hollywood studios, since they film at 24fps. It doesn't change anything if fps changes at any other point down the chain (except having TVs that can handle multiples of 24). It still will not help you. Aren't there HDTVs coming out in Europe that can handle multiples of 24 AND 25?

[dk3dknight]

What he is talking about is a option to allow the ps3 to speed up the playback a extra frame per second, not actually the studios presenting the material different.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by dk3dknight

What he is talking about is a option to allow the ps3 to speed up the playback a extra frame per second, not actually the studios presenting the material different.

I know. I'm saying that it has to be added somewhere down the line, right (the TV)? If your TV does 100Hz, 24Hz material has to end up playing at 100Hz (or fps) somehow, right? That would mean the TV would have to add the extra frame to make it 25 and then use multiples of 25 to reach 100, right? Let me know if I'm off base here (and why).

[Siberian29]

Doesn't the PS3 support a 50hz output?

[richieb1971]

Globally HDTV is a standard. My TV is 100hz for PAL and 120hz for 24/60 sources. Its only SDTV's that require a speed up.

I am not even sure if Blu-ray movies can be played in SD because I have not tried.


I think what the OP is saying is that telecine judder is more common on 24/60 sources, which PAL users hadn't seen in the past. This is because as you say, movie content runs at 24 frames, PAL is 50hz/2 interlaced passes = 25fps. What PAL pressing plants did was speed up the film and sound so 25 frames would pass each second. This would affect run times of movies, as the PAL version would end up being 3 minutes shorter (on average) and the audio would be ever so slightly higher pitched. It also, as the OP is saying, eliminates telecine judder slightly.

[dk3dknight]

I played blu-ray movies on a 10 inch sd tv, so yes its possible.

What happens is the player down converts the signal down to
480i, or magical fairy's not sure yet.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by richieb1971

Globally HDTV is a standard. My TV is 100hz for PAL and 120hz for 24/60 sources. Its only SDTV's that require a speed up.

I am not even sure if Blu-ray movies can be played in SD because I have not tried.


I think what the OP is saying is that telecine judder is more common on 24/60 sources, which PAL users hadn't seen in the past. This is because as you say, movie content runs at 24 frames, PAL is 50hz/2 interlaced passes = 25fps. What PAL pressing plants did was speed up the film and sound so 25 frames would pass each second. This would affect run times of movies, as the PAL version would end up being 3 minutes shorter (on average) and the audio would be ever so slightly higher pitched. It also, as the OP is saying, eliminates telecine judder slightly.

That's what I'm talking about. I'm not that great with the terminology in the film world, but that's what I was trying to say.

[Siberian29]

I would read over this
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=987973
It seems like PAL PS3's can do a 50hz output.

[Porky Pine]

Ask these people how well internet petitions work.

Save HD DVD

[nicktherockstar]

fair doos, cheers for the support

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Porky Pine

Ask these people how well internet petitions work.

Save HD DVD

[ranma]

So, the glitch I see during the ps3 blu-ray playback due to 24p don't fit 50/60 Hz of TV? My TV (Philips 47FL322(?) claim to have 24p mode, I still got annoyed by the jumping feeling of the panning camera. And there is no such problem when playback DVDs(presumed 24p too).

Who can give the definite answer? Thank you.

[dk3dknight]

Originally Posted by ranma

So, the glitch I see during the ps3 blu-ray playback due to 24p don't fit 50/60 Hz of TV? My TV (Philips 47FL322(?) claim to have 24p mode, I still got annoyed by the jumping feeling of the panning camera. And there is no such problem when playback DVDs(presumed 24p too).

Who can give the definite answer? Thank you.

Wow you revied a 3 month old thread lol..

First do you live in europe?

Dvds in Europe are mastered in PAL and in the states its NTSC..
I always considered PAL weird... but thats just my opinion.

[richieb1971]

DVD's are completely different since they were designed for SDTV. A DVD works like this.

On NTSC (USA/Japan etc) players/discs the movie would run at 60hz. Since SDTV (480i) requires interlacing you would have odd frames alternate to the tune of 2.5 frames per second. 2.5x24 = 60

In 480p mode DVD's use 3:2 pulldown. Meaning each odd frame is shown 3 times and each even frame shown twice. 2x12 = 24, 3x12 =36, 36 + 24 = 60.

With PAL regions, the print of movie reel was scanned at 25fps, they just sped up the spool so that 25fps passed each second.


With Blu-ray, all material is produced with 60hz in mind. All HDTV's globally have accounted for this. But if you have a 50hz SDTV, well 24 doesn't fit into 50. So a pseudo algorithm is used somehow causing a side effect of the original footage.

The only way to get round this is to speed up the original 24fps transfer to 25fps like the DVD. Personally I don't see the point in it much since there is only 68 signatures showing how minute the % of people is that use that technology with a PS3.

The OP says 120hz costs £1500. I bought my TV for £750 10 months ago. The Sony KDL40D3000(U) and it does 120hz perfectly with full 24p support. I am sure Sony isn't the cheapest either. You could probably knock another £200 by buying a Samsung with the same features. That puts you right in PS3 pricing territory. Which means, upgrade your TV.

[ranma]

I lived in U.S., I got pissed by the glitching of BD play back. The brand of my TV is europe brand (philips), however I would expect them to meet NTSC (60 Hz) standard because it is sold in US. So, what's wrong with my equipment?

[dk3dknight]

Hmm well ranma this has to deal with the difference in pal and ntsc, you might want to ask in the tv discussion thread there maybe a setting on your tv I do not know.

Do you have any motion settings on?

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by ranma

I lived in U.S., I got pissed by the glitching of BD play back. The brand of my TV is europe brand (philips), however I would expect them to meet NTSC (60 Hz) standard because it is sold in US. So, what's wrong with my equipment?

NTSC is 24Hz. PAL is 25Hz.

HDTVs typically run at 60Hz, which is what most Blu-ray players output (PS3 included, though it has an option for 24p output as well). Some can output 24p native, which is what most Hollywood films are originalled filmed as (and encoded as such on the disc via flags).

There's nothing wrong with your equipment that isn't wrong with 99.9% of other HDTVs; 24 and 25 do not evenly divide into 60, so you're going to see some judder whether the source material was filmed at NTSC or PAL equivalent frames per second. The only way to remove this problem is to upgrade to a 120Hz set to remove the 24fps NTSC problem (but still leaves the PAL issue).