Moire Patterns and Dark Knight

[stahl7639]

Alright, this may be a “noob” question/complaint, but I cannot stop thinking about it. I recently purchased a new TV, a Samsung LN40A650, and I love it. Last night, I plopped The Dark Knight into the PS3 and started watching it. I was immediately disappointed when the opening IMAX scene began because all I could notice was the horrid moiré patterns on the buildings. I noticed these during some of the other IMAX scenes in the movie as well. Now, my question is what is causing these patterns on my TV? Could it be my HDMI cable, I have a Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable that I bought in 2007, so maybe it is not 1.3a? Could it be a setting is not turned on on my TV? Any information would be greatly appreciated?

[STARSCREAM]

You can relax as its not your cable or tv. That's just how the IMAX scenes are on Dark Knight. Many others have noticed it and I see it too.

[ajmrowland]

Moire patterns? Is that a flaw with the footage?

[jcarys]

Have you checked your sharpness and contrast settings? Either of them too high could be enhancing what's already on the disc.

I don't know if there's a generic setting for sharpness for Bluray, but for DVD the advice was typically to turn it all the way to 0.

I know that on my set I saw very little moire, but obviously others mileage has clearly varied.

[Kris Deering]

Actually, this is probably something wrong with your TV. There are no moire patterns in the encoding of this disc. Moire in high detail is a result of improper de-interlacing or scaling. If your PS3 is outputting 1080p24 and you are still seeing this then your display is doing some scaling to the signal internally and creating essentially interference patterns. This is not uncommon because many displays have internal scaling turned on for their video processing features and it is important to turn them off during your setup.

I promise you anyone telling you this is an artifact of the disc is not telling you the truth.

[robertc88]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Actually, this is probably something wrong with your TV. There are no moire patterns in the encoding of this disc. Moire in high detail is a result of improper de-interlacing or scaling. If your PS3 is outputting 1080p24 and you are still seeing this then your display is doing some scaling to the signal internally and creating essentially interference patterns. This is not uncommon because many displays have internal scaling turned on for their video processing features and it is important to turn them off during your setup.

I promise you anyone telling you this is an artifact of the disc is not telling you the truth.

I have a Panny plasma display and really don't know where to check for internal scaling for video processing and the current setting.

What I can tell you though is there are a decent about of posts in the TDK mega thread that have brought up the issue. I bet if we did a poll regarding the scene with the buildings, there would be more seeing it than not.

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by ajmrowland

Moire patterns? Is that a flaw with the footage?

What is this? Moire patterns?

[stahl7639]

Originally Posted by cvm

What is this? Moire patterns?

Here is an example of a moire pattern.




I see this on the far left building during the opening scene of the dark knight, as well as some of the other IMAX scenes with a pan of a skyline.

I purchased a new HDMI cable becasue I think it might be due to the fact that my cable is old, its the Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable.
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3978
I don't think it is 1.3a. I'll see if that solves the problem.

[ScarredLungs]

oh okay... I never seen it on my copy, but who knows. I'll check for the heck of it and see if it there next time i watch it

[ryoohki]

Download the AVSHD Test Disc, burn it on a DVDR, Go into the Basic Option and check the last pattern, Sharpness. If you see stars (moire) in the pattern, reduce Sharpness of you're display until all lines are perfect

This is THE BEST Sharpness setting pattern i've ever seen myself..

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by stahl7639

Here is an example of a moire pattern.




I see this on the far left building during the opening scene of the dark knight, as well as some of the other IMAX scenes with a pan of a skyline.

I purchased a new HDMI cable becasue I think it might be due to the fact that my cable is old, its the Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable.
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3978
I don't think it is 1.3a. I'll see if that solves the problem.

There is A LOT of misinformation about HDMI cables out there. Sometimes your "old" one is no worse than the new one that is being marketed under some new title. Consumers are being taken left and right with the false advertising claims associated with HDMI cables.

You'll fine a great article about HDMI cables and the differences HERE. I would also recommend this brand of cables to anyone who wants top performance at very affordable prices. But even if you're not in the market for cables, this is a great reference to increase consumer awareness of what HDMI is all about.

[blu-raay]

Originally Posted by cvm

What is this? Moire patterns?

"Is this the right word, alcoves? Do you say this word, alcoves?" cvm's post reminded me of 'in bruge.'

[mauijiminar]

Originally Posted by stahl7639

Alright, this may be a “noob” question/complaint, but I cannot stop thinking about it. I recently purchased a new TV, a Samsung LN40A650, and I love it. Last night, I plopped The Dark Knight into the PS3 and started watching it. I was immediately disappointed when the opening IMAX scene began because all I could notice was the horrid moiré patterns on the buildings. I noticed these during some of the other IMAX scenes in the movie as well. Now, my question is what is causing these patterns on my TV? Could it be my HDMI cable, I have a Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable that I bought in 2007, so maybe it is not 1.3a? Could it be a setting is not turned on on my TV? Any information would be greatly appreciated?

OK what are "Morie" patterns?

[the Bass Mechanic]

Originally Posted by stahl7639

Alright, this may be a “noob” question/complaint, but I cannot stop thinking about it. I recently purchased a new TV, a Samsung LN40A650, and I love it. Last night, I plopped The Dark Knight into the PS3 and started watching it. I was immediately disappointed when the opening IMAX scene began because all I could notice was the horrid moiré patterns on the buildings. I noticed these during some of the other IMAX scenes in the movie as well. Now, my question is what is causing these patterns on my TV? Could it be my HDMI cable, I have a Monster FlatScreen HDMI cable that I bought in 2007, so maybe it is not 1.3a? Could it be a setting is not turned on on my TV? Any information would be greatly appreciated?

I myself have not seen any of the problems that seem to be popping up about "TDK". Then again, I've owned a copy of "Video Essentials" on optical disc ever since my first LaserDisc player (man I wish I had held onto the laserdisc of that, it had a nice 12" square booklet with lovely diagrams covering everything you never really wanted to know about NTSC, the DVD has them in a gallery, but it's just not the same). The new "Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics" Blu-ray should be included with every Blu-ray player sold, it was one of the first Blu-ray discs I bought and it really helped bring me up to speed on the holes in my knowledge of HDTV. There is a test pattern on there that tests for "Pixel Mapping" and consists of rectangular "bricks" with alternating black and white blocks in a checkerborad pattern. Most of them have each black or white block using up 2 or 4 pixels, but one of the areas has each block using only one pixel; so it's a fine checkerboard pattern of adjacent pixels alternating between black and white.

'So what's the point', you may ask, simple; if the screen is correctly mapping each of the pixels on the disc to the pixels on the screen (ie. the image is 1920x 1080, or 1280x720, [they have 720p test images too, for 720p screens] and the screen has the same native resolution, and there is no "overscan" or cropping of the edges of the image) then you get a box that looks grey at a distance, but when viewed up close is a smooth and uniform B&W checkerboard. If your set is not set up properly though, you will get a moire pattern, or worse. If you don't already have a copy of this test disc, get one ASAP and go through all of the explanations of the test patterns and don't be afraid to ask questions on this forum if the disc does not explain something clearly enough for you. As for your particular set, assuming it is a 1080p (or 720p, but not "768p") LCD/Plasma/or DLP/LCD projection set (rear or front), you should have a setting for "picture size", "picture mode", "screen wide" or something that zooms or crops 4:3 or letter box images, or any other setting that seems to slighly "zoom in" on an image; try going to the scene in question (the shoot of the bulidings near the beggining of TDK) and pause on a frame were the moire is obvious. Now try changing any of the above mentioned controls untill the image is the least cropped (or the most 'zoomed out') and the moire goes away. If that does not work you will have to get the "Digital Video Essentials" Blu-ray disc and/or get a profesional (or a "gifted"and willing friend) to take a crack at it. I know on My Sony KDL-46W3000 LCD screen the setting is under "screen", then "display area" and I had to set it to "Full Pixel" so that it would display the full 1920x1080p image.

Hope that helps,

[Liquid-Prince]

I don't exactly know what the term Moire means, but the IMAX scenes in Dark Knight have some pretty bad flickering at times. For example, the scene where Batman sky-hooks his way out of Lau's building, you can see the background flicker like CRAZY.