not enough watts per channel?? - Blu-ray Forum

killerbee · 03-11-2009, 11:12 PM

I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

rogman · 03-11-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerbee

I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

If you turn it as loud as you want it and there's no clipping you're fine! Watts per channel is just a number, so I'd listen to your ears. Sounds like 'klipsch guy' is getting commission on selling new Onkyo AVRs!

LifeOfAPirate13 · 03-11-2009, 11:42 PM

Someone mentioned this on my HT page. They told me the 605 is underpowering my whole system which I am sure it is to an extent I never blast the system...well I bump it alittle on the weekends thats about it barely goes over half. He mentioned I should look into an AMP based on the power my speakers can take. (Read my signature) Which would be an ideal setup but the $$ issue right now I dont have the dough to blow on a nice AMP. Does anyone know if this is "truly" underpowering my system with the Onkyo 605 running what I have??? Is it bad to leave it like this without an amp?

rogman · 03-11-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeOfAPirate13

Someone mentioned this on my HT page. They told me the 605 is underpowering my whole system which I am sure it is to an extent I never blast the system...well I bump it alittle on the weekends thats about it barely goes over half. He mentioned I should look into an AMP based on the power my speakers can take. (Read my signature) Which would be an ideal setup but the $$ issue right now I dont have the dough to blow on a nice AMP. Does anyone know if this is "truly" underpowering my system with the Onkyo 605 running what I have??? Is it bad to leave it like this without an amp?

It's so easy to spend someone else's money... I think you should buy a new AVR, and an amp and some new speakers too!

Audiophile_At_Birth · 03-12-2009, 12:16 AM

Can you tell if your tweeters have been fried, although they sound normal??

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 03:55 AM

You can definitely tell when you fry your tweeters. I had the flat tweeters that looked like they were made of cloth. Sounds good but fried them. I have a Pioneer Elite 72TXV which is supposed to be 130W, will an Emotiva amp that pushes 125W/channel be better than my receiver? I've never had separates but considering it.

Yeha-Noha · 03-12-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

Can you tell if your tweeters have been fried, although they sound normal??

A normal sounding tweeter can't possibly be fried. Usually a fried tweeter makes no sound at all. The wiring used for tweeter voice coils is very small diameter and can only conduct so much current. When overdriven, they simply burn out much like a fuse does.

Your tweeters are probably fine, if you can still hear sound coming from them.

richteer · 03-11-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerbee

I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

The salescritter does have a point. You're more likely to damage speakers by under powering them than by over powering them. That's because as you approach the amp's limit it'll start to clip, which will in turn send lots of treble energy to your speakers, potentially burning out your tweeters.

If you're not hearing any distortion you're probably be OK. But beware any loud passages that might fry your speakers...

Barnum · 03-12-2009, 05:59 PM

He makes a very valid point. Some music can be very demanding on a set or speakers and amp. Just because you do not hear or think you are hearing clipping does not mean that it's not happening. Feed a fraction of a second of clipping to a speaker long enough and bye bye. So many people think that they can hear clipping but in reality have no clue. If you want to know for sure go to a true high end store not some crap store like Best Buy and they will show you. The stores by me in Cleveland will do this and guess what you couldn't hear the clipping.

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 06:21 PM

It would be nice to know what the heck clipping sounds like. I don't turn my speakers that high but on occassions when I get my hands on some good movie or just wanting to test my speakers, I do crank it to an uncomfortable level. Sounds ok but like the above post said, I may not be hearing the clipping.

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 06:26 PM

Ok saw some youtube clips of clipping, I think. I can understand woofers clipping but how do you blow a tweeter?

bluseminole · 03-12-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efesbe

Ok saw some youtube clips of clipping, I think. I can understand woofers clipping but how do you blow a tweeter?

Oh no....oh no....this reminds me of another thread.....

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluseminole

Oh no....oh no....this reminds me of another thread.....

Looked at that for a while and didn't see the humor. Got it after about 5 seconds. Good thing I don't know the answer to that, right.

samuelj · 03-14-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluseminole

Oh no....oh no....this reminds me of another thread.....

lol

Barnum · 03-12-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efesbe

It would be nice to know what the heck clipping sounds like. I don't turn my speakers that high but on occassions when I get my hands on some good movie or just wanting to test my speakers, I do crank it to an uncomfortable level. Sounds ok but like the above post said, I may not be hearing the clipping.

Clipping will be a DC (or flat sport on the wave form) voltage which has no sound. That is the problem, people think that a banging speaker is clipping but it is not. DC is very bad for a voice coil.

SPH · 03-12-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnum

Clipping will be a DC (or flat sport on the wave form) voltage which has no sound. That is the problem, people think that a banging speaker is clipping but it is not. DC is very bad for a voice coil.

+1 Its almost as if you loose a whole range of sound. Like someone with an eq dropped out some sliders

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 07:24 PM

Ok, I'm not into measuring hz but simply just an end user. If what I saw was not clipping than I'm still clueless

bluseminole · 03-12-2009, 07:22 PM

The issue of impedance dips is very valid as well. Lower-end Onkyo receivers aren't designed to power speakers with nominal impedances less than 8 ohms (6 ohms at the bare min.). If the Klipschs (even with their nominal impedance of 6 or 8 ohms) truly can swing down to 2 ohms like one poster indicated, that could present a big problem for the receiver. My Monitor RS6s, at 6 ohms nominal, can very quickly overheat and tax my receiver at loud listening levels. That is why for movies and music I need to use a separate stereo amp to power them. By keeping the volume low like the Klipsch rep suggested, you avoid "over-driving" the amp in your AVR.

Not to mention, you're not getting nearly 90WPC with all channels driven. Onkyo rates their WPC with two channels driven, not with all channels driven. The Klipsch rep, as others have stated, raises a very valid point. Your speakers are far ahead of your amp technology right now. It's just something to keep in mind until you can afford a separate amp is all.

nezff · 03-14-2009, 08:09 PM

I had a onkyo 605 on my RF62s, RC62, RS42s and it sounded fine. no distoriton what so ever. also klipsch speakers are very effiecient, I know this because, I had a pioneer elite pushing 110 into my RF63s and RC64. No problems.

03-11-2009, 11:12 PM	#1
killerbee Active Member Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Steelers Country Blu-ray collection:76 Blu-ray reviews:1	not enough watts per channel?? I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

03-12-2009, 05:59 PM	#9
Barnum Senior Member Member since:Nov 2007 Trading Score:3	Power He makes a very valid point. Some music can be very demanding on a set or speakers and amp. Just because you do not hear or think you are hearing clipping does not mean that it's not happening. Feed a fraction of a second of clipping to a speaker long enough and bye bye. So many people think that they can hear clipping but in reality have no clue. If you want to know for sure go to a true high end store not some crap store like Best Buy and they will show you. The stores by me in Cleveland will do this and guess what you couldn't hear the clipping.

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03-11-2009, 11:42 PM	#3
LifeOfAPirate13 Expert Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Chicago, IL Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:18	Someone mentioned this on my HT page. They told me the 605 is underpowering my whole system which I am sure it is to an extent I never blast the system...well I bump it alittle on the weekends thats about it barely goes over half. He mentioned I should look into an AMP based on the power my speakers can take. (Read my signature) Which would be an ideal setup but the $$ issue right now I dont have the dough to blow on a nice AMP. Does anyone know if this is "truly" underpowering my system with the Onkyo 605 running what I have??? Is it bad to leave it like this without an amp?

03-12-2009, 12:16 AM	#5
Audiophile_At_Birth Special Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:El Paso, TX Home Theater Gallery:31 4K collection:8 Blu-ray collection:235 Blu-ray reviews:1	Can you tell if your tweeters have been fried, although they sound normal??

03-12-2009, 03:55 AM	#6
efesbe Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:14	You can definitely tell when you fry your tweeters. I had the flat tweeters that looked like they were made of cloth. Sounds good but fried them. I have a Pioneer Elite 72TXV which is supposed to be 130W, will an Emotiva amp that pushes 125W/channel be better than my receiver? I've never had separates but considering it.

03-12-2009, 06:21 PM	#10
efesbe Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:14	It would be nice to know what the heck clipping sounds like. I don't turn my speakers that high but on occassions when I get my hands on some good movie or just wanting to test my speakers, I do crank it to an uncomfortable level. Sounds ok but like the above post said, I may not be hearing the clipping.

03-12-2009, 06:26 PM	#11
efesbe Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:14	Ok saw some youtube clips of clipping, I think. I can understand woofers clipping but how do you blow a tweeter?

03-12-2009, 07:24 PM	#17
efesbe Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:14	Ok, I'm not into measuring hz but simply just an end user. If what I saw was not clipping than I'm still clueless

03-12-2009, 07:22 PM	#18
bluseminole Senior Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Lynchburg, VA Home Theater Gallery:17 Blu-ray collection:177 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	The issue of impedance dips is very valid as well. Lower-end Onkyo receivers aren't designed to power speakers with nominal impedances less than 8 ohms (6 ohms at the bare min.). If the Klipschs (even with their nominal impedance of 6 or 8 ohms) truly can swing down to 2 ohms like one poster indicated, that could present a big problem for the receiver. My Monitor RS6s, at 6 ohms nominal, can very quickly overheat and tax my receiver at loud listening levels. That is why for movies and music I need to use a separate stereo amp to power them. By keeping the volume low like the Klipsch rep suggested, you avoid "over-driving" the amp in your AVR. Not to mention, you're not getting nearly 90WPC with all channels driven. Onkyo rates their WPC with two channels driven, not with all channels driven. The Klipsch rep, as others have stated, raises a very valid point. Your speakers are far ahead of your amp technology right now. It's just something to keep in mind until you can afford a separate amp is all.

03-14-2009, 08:09 PM	#19
nezff Banned Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Apr 2008 Location:Louisiana Home Theater Gallery:36 Blu-ray collection:25 Blu-ray reviews: 4 Trading Score:5	I had a onkyo 605 on my RF62s, RC62, RS42s and it sounded fine. no distoriton what so ever. also klipsch speakers are very effiecient, I know this because, I had a pioneer elite pushing 110 into my RF63s and RC64. No problems.

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