Samsung first on the block with 240Hz LCD prototype, 100% better motion

[xtop]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/14/s...pe-100-better/

Samsung's faster "blue phase" (not to copy Blu-ray, just named for the color observed during its development) LCD panel is the first to demonstrate image-driving speed of 240Hz, surpassing current twisted nematic, in-plane switching or vertical alignment technology. In the quest for smooth CRT-style motion Samsung follows DLP manufacturers that announced plans to cross the 240Hz barrier at CES by manufacturing a display that aligns its own layers, simplifying manufacturing and ensuring uniform brightness without the need for an overdrive circuit found in today's merely expletive-inducing 120Hz LCDs. Don't expect these to hit shelves before 2011, coming first in TVs "that require high-speed video reproduction" -- like the one you'll buy that has a much bigger number than your next door neighbor's latest HDTV. For now, the only place to see the future is this 15-inch model at the Society for Information Display 2008 show in LA May 18.

[HDTV1080P]

Thanks for the link. I mentioned about a year ago or so that I believed one day 240HZ flat panels might be released. This would greatly improve the motion problem with LCD when you go to 240HZ or higher. It should start to challenge 72HZ Plasma screens. Of course maybe Pioneer or Panasonic will start making 120HZ Plasma’s which should look better then 240HZ LCD's.
I just hope the first 240HZ LCD screens when and if they arrive offer true 10:10 pulldown for 1080P/24 material.

[mustang-gt-2002]

I jest get the SAMSUNG LN46A650 120Hz HDTV and now they say they have a 240Hz HDTV. I love and hate electronics. and computers to.

[mjbethancourt]

This should work nicely with Samsung's 3D-TV program, which needs high frame rates and independent alignment. I want to know why we have to wait so long.

[U4K61]

Originally Posted by bilbravo

I still don't understand why you want 1080p/24. Why not 1080p/60? I assume the 24/60 are fps. For example, video games run at 60fps (hopefully). They look better than something that runs at 30fps.

Please explain why I would want less frames per second. And "because that's how it is encoded" is not what I'm looking for, because my next question would be : why not shoot/encode it at more frames per second?

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

They tried with the first two Todd-AO 70 movies, Oklahoma! and Around The World in 80 Days, shot at 30fps, but inertia is a very big thing, and, as all the World's 35mm projectors run at 24fps, movies kept being done in 24fps till this day.

So 99.9999999999999% of theatrical sound movies are in 24fps. There are some telefilms and shows shot in 25fps (for PAL TV) and 30fps (For NTSC TV) , plus all that "live" camera videotaping, that's done at 50i, and 60i respectively.

If you have a PS3 and have it connected with 1080p60 output*, and you play movies in 1.5x fast speed, you can kind of see 36fps motion and notice it looks more "live". I tend to watch the Warner/BBC Planet Earth like that sometimes for example.

*(If you have it on 1080p24, it'll just play the movie 1.5x faster but still output 24 fps)

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I mentioned about a year ago or so that I believed one day 240HZ flat panels might be released. This would greatly improve the motion problem with LCD when you go to 240HZ or higher. It should start to challenge 72HZ Plasma screens.

I just hope the first 240HZ LCD screens when and if they arrive offer true 10:10 pulldown for 1080P/24 material.

Originally Posted by aramis109

While they do have to do with the refresh rate of the display itself, that is also a key in handling 24hz frame rates in film. Without the proper refresh rate, there is no chance of avoiding pulldown judder- for example in a 60hz set. However, not all 120hz sets properly resolve 24hz material.

Can you imagine a 240Hz set using 3:2 pulldown and then multiplying that out by 4 and having the same 24fps cadence issues as sets at 60Hz 2:3 or 120Hz 3:2 multiplied by 2? Just boggles the mind.

3:2 creates an equivalence class 3(n):2(n), where n = {1,2,4,8}. Whatever n is, and no matter how big the numbers get, the ratio is still always 3:2 by cancelling out n.
n=1 3(1):2(1) = 3:2 = 3:2
n=2 3(2):2(2) = 6:4 = 3:2
n=4 3(4):2(4) = 8:12 = 3:2
n=8 3(8):2(8) = 24:16 = 3:2
3 and 2 are prime numbers.

Originally Posted by saprano

Can somebody explain to me what pulldown does and how it works.

Pulldown for 60i video
3:2(2:3) Pulldown converts 24(23.976)fps to 30(29.97)fps. There are 4 film frames for 5 video frames.
24/30 = (4*6)/(5*6) = 4/5. Video has two fields per frame, so there are 5 fields for the odd lines, and 5 fields for the even lines. So we converted 4 frames into 10 interlaced video frames.
Example: Fames A,B,C,D becomes fields A,A,B,B,B,C,C,D,D,D using 2:3 pulldown.

The list of intiger multiples of 24 is growing. 360Hz would be 3:2 x 6, 480Hz is 3:2 x 8 and 600Hz is 3:2 x 10. Perhaps we can start saying if n=m for some n:m pull-down, then we are getting correct 24fps cadence for some Hz(w), while n~=m is not.

With Royal Philips Electronics planning to introduce Cinima 21:9 sets for 2009, the list of aspect ratios is also growing. Now we have 4:3, 16:10, 16:9, and 21:9.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=87773

Back to Frame Rates

[saprano]

Can somebody explain to me what pulldown does and how it works.

[Uniquely]

Nice.... motion blur has always been the biggest problem I've had with any of my lcd's. That's one of the reasons why I use DLP in my main viewing room and lcd's in the rest of the house.

[PanasonicPlasmaMan]

Sony also has 240hz and its been out.

[MoPe]

Originally Posted by PanasonicPlasmaMan

Sony also has 240hz and its been out.

This was originally posted 7-months ago.

See the first post date..

[PanasonicPlasmaMan]

ah

[MoPe]

Originally Posted by PanasonicPlasmaMan

ah

No biggie.. I thought the same thing, until I looked at the original post's date.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Craig Ruchman

Can you imagine a 240Hz set using 8:12 instead of 10:10 and having the same 24fps cadence issues as sets at 60Hz 2:3 or 120Hz 4:6? Just boggles the mind.

Sets don't do this though - they do 2:3 and then double (or quadruple).
There's no such thing as 8:12 pulldown.

[[1080-p]]

what about this 3d-tv ? its not 240hz
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/04...ubishi_3d_tvs/

would be nice if hdtvs had photopolymers screens
http://www.gizmag.com/future-3d-tv/10171/

well if 3d-tvs come on the market i hope they are mid-air display combine provision 3dmedia with software like celvision http://www.celvision.com/en/index.aspx
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/ma...digital_depth/ software

because buying a 3dtv that requires glasses is weird when autostereoscopic will do perfectly

Sad news ____http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800570079_480700_NT_0ce4b478.HTM
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/04/prweb2291684.htm
seams consumers can never get a break

What about hooking up 3d media player to computer and playback on hdtv?


Or having a stagepod or vispod instead of those goofy glasses

[john_1958]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

This should work nicely with Samsung's 3D-TV program, which needs high frame rates and independent alignment. I want to know why we have to wait so long.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...goryid=14&cs=1
amg 3d network

would also be nice to get newsight and celvision software and forget the glasses

[Grumpz]

Feel free to attack me because it's seems to be the norm around here, but my 120hz Sony is no where near the best LCD out there, yet I don't see motion blur.

To me, this is just another gimmick.

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by Grumpz

Feel free to attack me because it's seems to be the norm around here, but my 120hz Sony is no where near the best LCD out there, yet I don't see motion blur.

To me, this is just another gimmick.

Well be happy you dont notice it, because i have a 120Hz Sammy and i still notice motion blur. I dont on my Panny tho...

[Knight-Errant]

Scrolling credits are a dead giveaway of the weaknesses of LCD.

[Grumpz]

Originally Posted by Knight-Errant

Scrolling credits are a dead giveaway of the weaknesses of LCD.

I just watched Bolt with my daugther. All I see is crisp lettering, no streak or blur.

Maybe it existed on older LCD technology, but if you can't notice it from a few feet (we watch from 12), why is it even a factor.

Just like image retention on today's plasma's is what LCD uses to promote itself, I think plasma tries to amplify the blur from LCD.

Just an opinion. I'm glad my tv doesn't do it.

[Knight-Errant]

It has to be fast scrolling credits as on TV shows. They can be unreadable on some displays.

Things are improving though.

[Branden]

i don't understand the point in having a 240Hz display, maybe someone could enlighten me.

here in N.A. we use a 60Hz AC power grid, all appliances (including televisions up till now) have worked within those limits.
NTSC runs at 30fps, it is easy for a 60Hz TV to replicate 30fps fluidly (60/2=30). movies have always been filmed in 24fps (whatever the reason being), but even then they were remuxed at 30fps when they reached the DVD. all was well.
then blu-ray came along with the intention of accurately presenting film, which meant keeping 24fps, that caused a problem on our 60Hz sets. 60/24 does not reveal an integer. 120Hz sets are the obvious solution. 120/5=24, 120/4=30, 120/2=60. 120Hz sets are capable of displaying all common framerates thrown at it without use of pulldowns or interpolation. that's a good thing.

so whats the point of 240Hz? i get the impression 240Hz is just a selling gimmick.