UHD Blu-ray Disc Authentication Poll

[bruceames]

I would expect the devices (players) to be registered as well, just like Roku sticks or media players with internal hard drives are. AFAIK, don't know of any player with hard drive that is standalone.

But I don't think the content will require registration (although with one-time authentication, they will know which content is tied to any player, so it doesn't matter). So any silver lining would be that content is still protected under First Sale, and that it would be a physical purchase, not digital. That would be important as far as their ability to render your physical purchase "useless" one day, since First Sale would protect against that.

A way they could make sure your content is protected (if they remove the servers for example) would be to simply disable the digital bridge feature from registered players and the necessity of one-time authentication as well, making it a truly standalone format like BLu-ray/DVD is today (although no longer supported with new titles).

[Geoff D]

Yeah. Such a thing won't mollify the folks who oppose authentication with every fiber of their being, but I would hope that when the time comes to turn off the servers that the authentication is then disabled along with it, which would at least mean that we could watch the extant content for as long as the players last.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

What is your best guess at how many of the 100+ no sayers will cave to get HDR, HFR, WCG in exchange for on line authentication?

"Cave" say you.

Whatever be voters' convictions….

PEOPLE, BE STRONG, Hold The Line!....at least for a few years.

P.S.
The poll doesn't just live, it thrives!....well over 100 committed voters now.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Well somebody needs to spill the beans if online authentication will be a part of the spec. That's a really big deal according to the poll.

Other than the pesky issue of online authentication, consider yourselves privileged as for having known much about the Ultra HD Blu-ray specs, e.g.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post10516087

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post10687981

for months prior to, the time of this weeks’ *Finalization News*.

It could be worse….you could be cluelessly living in “the epicenter of home theater” - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post34179138 < courtesy of a member of both Blu-ray forums, having sent me this link in PM, this AM.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

"Cave" say you.

Whatever be voters' convictions….

PEOPLE, BE STRONG, Hold The Line!....at least for a few years.

And for cripes sakes, to those logo-lovers out there, please nobody “cave” if they feel the Digital Bridge logo looks cooler than the Ultra HD Blu-ray logo.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

I really don't know. I have hundreds of movies on DVD as well that aren't available on Blu-ray. But I don't watch them anymore (nor have plans to watch them). Seems there's always enjoyable movies to watch in the latest and greatest format.

And that's your choice to do that. I'm not going to blame people for their individual viewing preferences, but I just find it funny that when some people choose to never watch a previous format (i.e. DVD) again, and that any fate of a previous format (even in a hypathetical scenario in which a format that requires online authetnication no longer being supported) won't effect them since they will have moved on, so they don't see why it should be a big deal at all to anyone.

Some people apparently are fine with just watching a general amount of whatever content happens to be available in whatever they latest format/presentation option is.

Others have some specific content that they want to maintain ongoing access to (in addition to other content that they have "fleeting" access to, i.e. whatever happens to be on TV at any given time, for example), and while in some cases those individuals will opt for the best available format/presentation option, they will still watch content on an older format if that's the only way it's available. They'll balance priorities between the two.

I prefer watching movies and TV shows on Blu-Ray given the option, but just last night I popped in a disc from a DVD TV show season set that I felt like watching.

Originally Posted by bruceames.

What makes you think they're going to take away the rights someday to watch a whole format full of movies.? That would be suicide for the studios as far as future HV sales revenue is concerned. Nobody would buy anything after that. I think you're being too paranoid. Discs and tapes don't last forever anyway.

Assuming that there is no way to just pop in a disc and watch it without online authentiation, for the sake of this argument...

They may set it so that you only have the theoretically register/authenticate each disc "once," and then watch it "indefinately" without further reconnecting online... ***so long as the player/hardware that it is tied to keeps on working***

While the format is still supported, there will likely be a way to transfer the authentication to another machine in the event that your existing machine stops working.

But when they sooner or later get to the point where they aren't making enough money off of the format to keep making discs and players, there will then be no reason for them to maintain servers to reauthenticate to. Meaning that when and if your player stops working, your whole collection is gone.


The benefit of most physical media to date is that it effectively works with the respective hardware on an "interchangable parts" basis. If a disc gets scratched, damaged, or lost, get a replacement disc (even if it means resorting to ebay for something out of print), and it works just fine in the player. If the player stops working, have it repaired or replace it, and the movies work fine in it. This has been and continues to be an option even for movie and video game formats that are no longer supported by their original companies. We are able to self-maintain them in that respect, without the need for the original company to have any involvement.

Tapes and discs may not last "forever," but short of their being a problem in the manufacturing of some discs, they will likely last the rest of our lives if they are taken care of properly.

Plus, as long as the product was manufactured reasonably well in the first place, there's something more acceptable to me and a lot of other people about something no longer working due to reasonable, long term wear-and-tear, and not as the result of a company shutting off a service when it happens to suit them.... especially given that there are no legit/legal options to recover the content in the latter scenario.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

All of the online servers for Xbox and Playstation 2 games were shutdown. I doubt many companies would be willing to continue spending money to keep the servers running for formats that no longer make them money.

Yup. And I suspect that sooner or later the same will happen with PS3 and 360. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that they are still making money on those systems, and those systems were far more reliant on online connectivity than the PS2 and original Xbox.

But it's not a matter of "if," it's a matter of "when." And peaking as someone who still has his Atari 2600 and NES, that worries me.

While tapes are likely to start losing their magnetism within a few decades, I expect optical discs to last more than a century. In both cases it is likely much longer than any online servers will last.

I agree with this as well.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

What if your system breaks? I can get a broken Xbox repaired or replaced but I can never redownload any content for it. Plus you are missing the most important point: if there is DRM then companies can take away access. It's possible that they won't, but I'm not going to let them have that power regardless. Without DRM no company has the ability to take away access to anything.

EDIT: The post I was quoting seems to have disappeared.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Bottom line is that the studios are going to do what they're going to do. Not enough of a potential market for them to have to compromise their position. So no point in preemptive worrying because it's not going to change anything, and certainly no point in recovering the same ground with the same arguments. We all know where we stand, and when we know exactly what the DRM will be (hopefully soon), then we can base are future buying decisions based on that. I hope there is no online DRM, but if that's the case, I don't see how the digital bridge feature (with 1:1 copies) will work effectively. So I'm sort of skeptical that it won't be included to some extent.

We already saw what happened with the Xbox One reversing it's policies. It could happen again if enough people push back against these issues.

Even if the studios would prefer to go all digital, they are also in the business to make money. If enough people, even a niche, support this new format, they'll want to do what they can to make money on it. They aren't going to go along with something and then hope it fails.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Bottom line is that the studios are going to do what they're going to do. Not enough of a potential market for them to have to compromise their position. So no point in preemptive worrying because it's not going to change anything, and certainly no point in recovering the same ground with the same arguments. We all know where we stand, and when we know exactly what the DRM will be (hopefully soon), then we can base are future buying decisions based on that. I hope there is no online DRM, but if that's the case, I don't see how the digital bridge feature (with 1:1 copies) will work effectively. So I'm sort of skeptical that it won't be included to some extent.

The funny part is, the studios are just going to be adding gas to the fire. This authentication thing is going fuel more piracy than they ever dreamed.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

And that's your choice to do that. I'm not going to blame people for their individual viewing preferences, but I just find it funny that when some people choose to never watch a previous format (i.e. DVD) again, and that any fate of a previous format (even in a hypathetical scenario in which a format that requires online authetnication no longer being supported) won't effect them since they will have moved on, so they don't see why it should be a big deal at all to anyone.

Some people apparently are fine with just watching a general amount of whatever content happens to be available in whatever they latest format/presentation option is.

Others have some specific content that they want to maintain ongoing access to (in addition to other content that they have "fleeting" access to, i.e. whatever happens to be on TV at any given time, for example), and while in some cases those individuals will opt for the best available format/presentation option, they will still watch content on an older format if that's the only way it's available. They'll balance priorities between the two.

I prefer watching movies and TV shows on Blu-Ray given the option, but just last night I popped in a disc from a DVD TV show season set that I felt like watching.



Assuming that there is no way to just pop in a disc and watch it without online authentiation, for the sake of this argument...

They may set it so that you only have the theoretically register/authenticate each disc "once," and then watch it "indefinately" without further reconnecting online... ***so long as the player/hardware that it is tied to keeps on working***

While the format is still supported, there will likely be a way to transfer the authentication to another machine in the event that your existing machine stops working.

But when they sooner or later get to the point where they aren't making enough money off of the format to keep making discs and players, there will then be no reason for them to maintain servers to reauthenticate to. Meaning that when and if your player stops working, your whole collection is gone.


The benefit of most physical media to date is that it effectively works with the respective hardware on an "interchangable parts" basis. If a disc gets scratched, damaged, or lost, get a replacement disc (even if it means resorting to ebay for something out of print), and it works just fine in the player. If the player stops working, have it repaired or replace it, and the movies work fine in it. This has been and continues to be an option even for movie and video game formats that are no longer supported by their original companies. We are able to self-maintain them in that respect, without the need for the original company to have any involvement.

Tapes and discs may not last "forever," but short of their being a problem in the manufacturing of some discs, they will likely last the rest of our lives if they are taken care of properly.

Plus, as long as the product was manufactured reasonably well in the first place, there's something more acceptable to me and a lot of other people about something no longer working due to reasonable, long term wear-and-tear, and not as the result of a company shutting off a service when it happens to suit them.... especially given that there are no legit/legal options to recover the content in the latter scenario.



Yup. And I suspect that sooner or later the same will happen with PS3 and 360. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that they are still making money on those systems, and those systems were far more reliant on online connectivity than the PS2 and original Xbox.

But it's not a matter of "if," it's a matter of "when." And peaking as someone who still has his Atari 2600 and NES, that worries me.



I agree with this as well.



Exactly.



We already saw what happened with the Xbox One reversing it's policies. It could happen again if enough people push back against these issues.

Even if the studios would prefer to go all digital, they are also in the business to make money. If enough people, even a niche, support this new format, they'll want to do what they can to make money on it. They aren't going to go along with something and then hope it fails.

Dynamo, have you ever debated Anthony?
I think I'd be interested in seeing that.

[raygendreau]

So much to look forward to.

The which is better, Dolby Atmos or DTS:X, thread/poll.

The first audience reaction to the Dolby Vision Cinema screening of Tomorrowland with HDR. Will it be better than audience reaction to The Hobbit HFR? If the audience starts stumbling around screaming MY EYES! MY EYES!, unable to find their way out because the exit signs have been extinguished to maintain that Christie Laser projector contrast ratio of 1,000,000 to 1; what hope can there be for UHD BD+HDR?

I wonder how long the picket lines will be in front of Best Buy stores when the first $2,000.00 UHD BD players from Samsung and Panasonic show up?

I can hear the picketers now: “WHEN DO WE WANT ONLINE AUTHENTICATION? NEVER! NEVER! AND WHEN DO WE NEVER WANT IT? FOREVER! FOREVER!

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

The funny part is, the studios are just going to be adding gas to the fire. This authentication thing is going fuel more piracy than they ever dreamed.

I couldn't agree more. This thing will be cracked wide open and "Back up your UHD-BD" utilities will be available. It may not ever be a big market, but somewhere someone will crack it just for the sake of cracking it. I've said all along that this type of thing is counterproductive. Sell a decent quality product at a decent price and people will buy it. It's not rocket science!

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Dynamo, have you ever debated Anthony?
I think I'd be interested in seeing that.

I pretty much ignore long multi-quote debate posts. Too light on info and too heavy on emotion.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

The first audience reaction to the Dolby Vision Cinema screening of Tomorrowland with HDR. Will it be better than audience reaction to The Hobbit HFR? If the audience starts stumbling around screaming MY EYES! MY EYES!, unable to find their way out because the exit signs have been extinguished to maintain that Christie Laser projector contrast ratio of 1,000,000 to 1; what hope can there be for UHD BD+HDR?

Not to worry, if by the time you purchase your new 4K HDR tv and that particular TV is not smart enough to adjust its HDR luminance based upon the ambient lighting in your room, unlike with movie theaters to which patrons are held hostage to the theater’s viewing conditions, you (the consumer) can control the ambient lighting yourself at home while watching future HDR content…for a man’s home is his castle.

In the meantime, if you personally experience an eye problem with viewing Tomorrowland in a public cinema and you can’t meet up with me at Beckman - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post10745395

Get on over to Gavin Herbert and I’ll drive down to your neck and woods and personally introduce you to Dr. Steinert or Kuppermann in retina/vitreous…. http://www.eye.uci.edu/ for a consultation.

The Institute is an architectural thing of beauty.

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

I would because my devices are always connected to the internet so it would be a non-issue for me.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I wonder how long the picket lines will be in front of Best Buy stores when the first $2,000.00 UHD BD players from Samsung and Panasonic show up?

I wonder who will be first out of the gate with an Ultra HD Blu-ray player…Samsung - http://www.koreaobserver.com/samsung...is-year-28511/

Or somebody else? I like dem unboxing YouTube videos.

P.S.
The poll has broken the 150 committed voter barrier!

[AKORIS]

nope.... I'm going to keep building an awesome blu ray library with that we already have as a format....

[obriensg1]

I've actually cut back on buying as many movies just in an effort to save money lol

I bought a great television 3 years ago that should last me at least another 7 years I take care of it, and there are still people using DVDs, so this doesn't seem like the time to build yet another new format

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Wow , the poll took another jump in voter participation, since last I checked in, now over 100.

This may not just be a poll…but the beginning of a Movement.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

"Cave" say you.

Whatever be voters' convictions….

PEOPLE, BE STRONG, Hold The Line!....at least for a few years.

P.S.
The poll doesn't just live, it thrives!....well over 100 committed voters now.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

P.S.
The poll has broken the 150 committed voter barrier!

What is it with you and this poll?

Convictions? Commitment? Be Strong? Start of a movement?

It's an online poll. And it doesn't even have Katy Perry in it anywhere.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by octagon

What is it with you and this poll?

Convictions? Commitment? Be Strong? Start of a movement?

It's an online poll. And it doesn't even have Katy Perry in it anywhere.

I have a hunch that there are user group samplings done by the industry that are smaller than this poll so far. Studios may actually sit up and take notice of the results.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I have a hunch that there are user group samplings done by the industry that are smaller than this poll so far. Studios may actually sit up and take notice of the results.

Self-selecting internet polls are one step below online petitions on any reasonable 'sit up and take notice' scale.

I'm not knocking online polls, mind you. They can be fun and they can be interesting.

But any resemblance between the results of an online poll and statistically significant data is completely coincidental.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by octagon

Self-selecting internet polls are one step below online petitions on any reasonable 'sit up and take notice' scale.

I'm not knocking online polls, mind you. They can be fun and they can be interesting.

But any resemblance between the results of an online poll and statistically significant data is completely coincidental.

I believe Penton-Man would beg to differ considering his interest in keeping the poll going. Do you have an opposite agenda?