UHD Blu-ray Disc Authentication Poll

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by reanimator

When you power-up the Samsung K8500 the first time, it asks what language you want the player set to. The next step is connecting to the internet. I skipped that step. All of the UHD-BD Fox titles I own played perfectly fine. So to be clear... YOU DO NOT NEED AN INTERNET CONNECTION TO PLAY UHD BLU RAYS. You may consider this 100% confirmed.

You did not confirm anything because as the BDA has said it depends on the disk. bSo9me won't need a connection while others will.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

You did not confirm anything because as the BDA has said it depends on the disk. bSo9me won't need a connection while others will.

Disney, of all the studios, it the one I fear the most since they now own a lot of the hot film properties.

They were very pro DIVX back in the day.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

You did not confirm anything because as the BDA has said it depends on the disk. bSo9me won't need a connection while others will.

They confirmed that some discs can be played without any internet connection at all. Before that confirmation it was possible that a one-time activation would be needed for the player just like Playstation 4 requires for DVD and Blu-ray playback and Xbox One requires for everything.

It's still possible that some discs will require an internet connection, but I wouldn't say that nothing was confirmed. With this information the format as a whole is now acceptable, I'll just avoid all the discs that have an online requirement.

On a related note that gives another reason to keep the player disconnected from the internet: if some discs require an internet connection but aren't labeled as such someone who has their player already connected may be unaware that they own discs like that. If the player is never connected then those discs won't work and someone who buys them should immediately return them and report on forums like this that they require an internet connection.

If any discs in the future require an internet connection we should make a sticky thread listing all of those discs so people can avoid them.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Disney, of all the studios, it the one I fear the most since they now own a lot of the hot film properties.

They were very pro DIVX back in the day.

It's them and Criterion give me the fear. Neither of those labels were at all enthusiastic about HD-DVD. If I cant import Criterion, there goes approx. 50% of my reasons to own a player, unless there's an easy, and I mean as easy as pressing a button as it currently is, workaround.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by KRW1

It's them and Criterion give me the fear. Neither of those labels were at all enthusiastic about HD-DVD. If I cant import Criterion, there goes approx. 50% of my reasons to own a player, unless there's an easy, and I mean as easy as pressing a button as it currently is, workaround.

I'm just worried if Criterion will even make a move to at least limited 4k title releasing for those movies that received or are receiving 4k restorations... and whether the prices will be astronomical.

I doubt they'll have dial-in requirements, however.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by KRW1

It's them and Criterion give me the fear. Neither of those labels were at all enthusiastic about HD-DVD. If I cant import Criterion, there goes approx. 50% of my reasons to own a player, unless there's an easy, and I mean as easy as pressing a button as it currently is, workaround.

The studios that own the film own the master, so why would say universal not release them on their own?
It's a huge financial investment for a small boutique outlet

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

They confirmed that some discs can be played without any internet connection at all.

but that was pretty much a given.

The people in the know (studios/BDA) said that the early releases would not be using on-line because the specs were not ready on time. We are also talking (maybe relatively recent) catalogue titles from big studios so there was really no reason to doubt it.

Before that confirmation it was possible that a one-time activation would be needed for the player just like Playstation 4 requires for DVD and Blu-ray playback and Xbox One requires for everything.

But no one was talking about such a thing, plus you are missing the obvious, the Xbone required that connection (originally) because their original plan (disk registration and on-line connection to play) backfired completely and they had to re-design how everything would work at the last minute and so needing to DL the FW was the simplest solution. As for the PS4 it is a gaming machine, so requiring people to enable the BD/DVD playback is a way for Sony to save some money on licensing.


None of these would be applicable for a player.

On the other hand if the player did need a newer FW to play the films would it really have been a big issue?Once the latest FW is there you are good to go.

It's still possible that some discs will require an internet connection, but I wouldn't say that nothing was confirmed. With this information the format as a whole is now acceptable, I'll just avoid all the discs that have an online requirement.

can you explain me how you will "just avoid all the discs that have an online requirement."

not being facetious just being realistic. If every disk had a simple way of knowing (i.e. logo with key on disk/ key on PC/cloud on the front cover) then I would agree with you 100% but the BDA has not made any such claims. If the only way to know if the key is on the disk or it needs to be DLed is by putting the disk into a player that is not connected and seeing if it plays it becomes next to impossible and a tedious task to be able to "just avoid all the discs that have an online requirement."

If the player is never connected then those discs won't work and someone who buys them should immediately return them

since when can you return a disk that is open?

If any discs in the future require an internet connection we should make a sticky thread listing all of those discs so people can avoid them.

but that is insane and useless.

1) you can't use such a thread if you pre-order or run out and buy on release day to help you decide

2) you assume that everyone will disconnect their player from the internet just to test it out for you.

3) you assume that if a disk is not there that it means that it does not need a connection, but what if no one has posted the info in the thread yet.

4) look at most threads that deal with "news" some news takes for ever to make it on the thread, on the other hand the same news could be there many times because it was news to the poster and they thought they were the first to find it out

5) you are assuming a simple answer yes or no, but what happens if the US version does require a connection but the UK version does not? or the original release did but the rerelease does not?


6 such a thread would be small in Feb 2016 but would you really want to go through a several thousand post thread in a few years just to decide on what films to buy?

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

can you explain me how you will "just avoid all the discs that have an online requirement."

not being facetious just being realistic. If every disk had a simple way of knowing (i.e. logo with key on disk/ key on PC/cloud on the front cover) then I would agree with you 100% but the BDA has not made any such claims. If the only way to know if the key is on the disk or it needs to be DLed is by putting the disk into a player that is not connected and seeing if it plays it becomes next to impossible and a tedious task to be able to "just avoid all the discs that have an online requirement."

I figure worst case scenario is that if I can't return a disc that has an online requirement is that I will just resell the disc.

But I don't expect there to be discs with an online requirement that don't state it on the cover (or at least the back cover). This is true of all video games that require an online connection. Every decent store accepts returns of unopened movies so as long as you read the cover before taking off the shrinkwrap you shouldn't have any problem returning discs that require online.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I'm just worried if Criterion will even make a move to at least limited 4k title releasing for those movies that received or are receiving 4k restorations... and whether the prices will be astronomical.

I doubt they'll have dial-in requirements, however.

Oh I'm sure they will, maybe not this year but I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least a few releases in 2017-18. It's going to take a long while for this format to establish itself.

Originally Posted by dvdmike

The studios that own the film own the master, so why would say universal not release them on their own?
It's a huge financial investment for a small boutique outlet

Not sure what you mean there, tbh, they've already got 4k transfers of a lot of recent releases and, I don't know what Universal titles Criterion have but with something like, say, Eraserhead which already has a 4k scan and isn't going to knock Ant Man 2 from the top of the charts sales wise, I can't see why they wouldn't licence it to Criterion to release. I'd imagine the studios to largely carry on as they are, concentrating on digital releases. I think it really all depends on where we are 12 months from now.

Just been reading about Criterion UK....not sure what's going on there, but if they're going to start releasing things in the UK, then all region locking bets are off. Worldwide licencing, whole new ball games and stuff.

[bruceames]

It should be easy to avoid all movies that need an internet connection. They will have to state it somewhere, probably prominent enough to prevent mass returns. That's common sense. But even without reading the cover or any 'fine print' one could just wait for confirmation from anyone (or a review) whether it does or not before buying.

That said I don't expect it to be used very often. Perhaps Criterion or some other studio that will use it for region locking purposes (but will Criterion even bother to release in UHD?)

[karussellbremser]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

If the only way to know if the key is on the disk or it needs to be DLed is by putting the disk into a player that is not connected and seeing if it plays it becomes next to impossible and a tedious task to be able to "just avoid all the discs that have an online requirement."

Even it it was that way and it's not stated on the cover, that information could, for example, be entered at the respective page on blu-ray.com where now users confirm the region codes of discs, so it would really not be that big of a deal to check it for every disc you buy. If it's a preorder, you just wait with opening the shrink wrap till the information is available. If it has the online activation, you just return it. Or, even better, return it opened with the reason that it needs online activation without stating it on the cover. Would be nice if there are many returns because of this.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by karussellbremser

Even it it was that way and it's not stated on the cover, that information could, for example, be entered at the respective page on blu-ray.com where now users confirm the region codes of discs, so it would really not be that big of a deal to check it for every disc you buy. If it's a preorder, you just wait with opening the shrink wrap till the information is available. If it has the online activation, you just return it. Or, even better, return it opened with the reason that it needs online activation without stating it on the cover. Would be nice if there are many returns because of this.

Yes, returns shouldn't be a problem. It would have to be a pretty terrible store to not accept a return for something with an unstated requirement.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

It should be easy to avoid all movies that need an internet connection. They will have to state it somewhere, probably prominent enough to prevent mass returns. That's common sense.

why would you assume "common sense" on their part?

1) if they had any sense they would know disks (as can be seen from the UHD BDs released so far) do not naturally need an on-line connection so this spec would not be in the format in the first place

2)if they had any sense they should know the guy that buys a DDL has no issue with needing a connection but the guy that went out of his way to buy the disk probably decided on a disk for the benefits (such as not requiring a connection) of using a disk

3) if they had any sense they should have realized that when MS tried this BS of needing a connection to play games on disk with the XBone they got slammed by consumers and needed to change how their platform worked and so it would be a bad idea to do so with UHD BDs

4) if they had any sense they would realize this is 100% useless against pirating and it has 100% chance of being problematic for consumers and so should not be used since there is no real pros to using it but only cons

5) if the BDA members (which includes studios) had any sense they should have realized that like having UHD BD /3d BD..... at the top of the case or the age rating or the region coding placement being standardized and easily identifiable that the same should have been done with this and so it would be easy for people that don't want to buy/use a disk that needs an an on-line connection to do so.

6) I think you have been around for a while, don’t know if you remember early DCs that came with BDs. But if you don’t you can definitely search this site on the subject. Many had expiration dates and many people bought the BDs assuming they had a DC but when they tried using the code they were told it was no longer available. Common sense should have told those studios that the expiration date should be on the cover so that the consumer can know that even though the cover sais there is a DC that it is no longer available. Did any of them do that ? no. There are many posts by irate consumers but they are meaningless since the studio got the $ it was looking for and it was too late for the consumer.

But even without reading the cover or any 'fine print' one could just wait for confirmation from anyone (or a review) whether it does or not before buying.

but wasn't it you that said earlier in this thread

Originally Posted by bruceames.

However I don't see why you wouldn't want to leave this connected if you do any streaming (unless you already have a Roku 4). It works great for that.

why would any one with any sense assume that every reviewer out there will go into their player’s settings disconnect it from the internet just to be able to tell others if it needs it or not.

That said I don't expect it to be used very often. Perhaps Criterion or some other studio that will use it for region locking purposes (but will Criterion even bother to release in UHD?)

it does not matter how often it is used. I have many thousands of useless disks (DVDs I bought, DCs/DVDs.... that came with BD combos, movies I did not like and will never watch again, burned data disk used to transfer/backup data..... at home and if I actually wanted more I can go out and buy spindles of disks at pennies per disk. I am willing to pay 25$ or what ever it will cost for the film that is on the disk because then I can watch what I want (the film in the quality I bought), when I want and where I want. Any disk I buy with this is useless, since I might not nbe able to watch it when I want (for example if the server is down) and I can’t watch it where I want ( I have an friend I met roughly 30 years ago and I have been invited at least once a year since then to his cottage/cabin/chalet... (technically it was his grand fathers when I first went there but that is immaterial) and every time I go for a visit (from the very first time) I bring films and video games there, and there has never been and most likely will never be an internet connection).


So even buying one is one too many.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by karussellbremser

Even it it was that way and it's not stated on the cover, that information could, for example, be entered at the respective page on blu-ray.com where now users confirm the region codes of discs, so it would really not be that big of a deal to check it for every disc you buy. If it's a preorder, you just wait with opening the shrink wrap till the information is available. If it has the online activation, you just return it.

I don't know who you are, if you are a renter or a collector. But I am the latter. I have already went out and bought over 20 films in one shot and over 50 in one week (many good deals that black Friday week end in many shops)

If you are the type to buy a film or two a year or even a week it might not be a big deal but I am not looking for a part time job, I am just looking for a format that I can sit down and watch with no extra work.

Or, even better, return it opened with the reason that it needs online activation without stating it on the cover. Would be nice if there are many returns because of this.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Yes, returns shouldn't be a problem. It would have to be a pretty terrible store to not accept a return for something with an unstated requirement.

where do you guys live in fantasy land? since when are retailers into free rentals?

Don't get me wrong, I kind of agree with you, but the simple reality is that the person at the service desk won't know what you are talking about and even if they do there is no way for them to know if you watched the film or not and you are just using it as an excuse.

Retailers have replaced stuff like this before that I have bought (one video game, a did that was skipping because of a scratch and a bent steelbook), but every time it was with the exact same item never a different one or for money back.

Plus maybe you guys are looking forward at spending an hour plus doing this but I am not looking for ways to waste time. Buying a film should not be that hard or mean that much work.

[KRW1]

I get the feeling if any discs do require an online check it'll be sold to us as some sort of benefit.

'This disc requires an internet connection to ensure your equipment is compatible, to download additional extras and commentaries and to bypass the fifteen unskippable trailers we added'. Or something.

[raygendreau]

This logo,

http://www.digital-digest.com/blog/D..._protected.png

which appears on all of the UHD BRs, covers all forms of copy protection, including the optional online authentication. The studios are under no obligation to separately list AACS, Cinavia, etc. on the disc or package.

Regarding usage of online authentication: If it is used at all, it will be used when the impact of piracy on studio revenue is high, during the period prior to street date. Logically, it would be used primarily for screeners.

The launch UHDBRs have all passed street date of the DVD and BD, so the impact on studio revenue of a pirated UHD BR is minimal. Additionally, there is no real demand, at this point in time, for UHD BR beyond a small group of early adopters.

The highest probability for the use of online authentication will occur with the initial release of some tentpole blockbuster in the future.

It does not matter whether any of you think it would have any measurable effect on reducing piracy; it only matters if the studio that uses it believes that it may.

If I had to pick a studio most likely to test on line authentication on a future release, it would be Fox, since they worked closely with the AACS on its development.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

It does not matter whether any of you think it would have any measurable effect on reducing piracy; it only matters if the studio that uses it believes that it may.

It does matter, because I have the option to spend the money on a UHD BD I want where I will need to then brake the law and DL the free pirated copy to watch since the disk won't work in every situation or save the money and skip buying the UHD BD and just Dls the free pirated copy either way I am braking the same laws in order to watch what I want.

[garyd97]

I am assuming this is infested with that cinavia garbage?

[KRW1]

How does online authentification stop piracy? I don't know how it works, but lets suppose I take my player, load a disc, it checks to see if its authentic and it is, but I then plug my player into my PC play and rip the disc and upload it? Somebody else downloads the file and plays it on a media player.

I don't see how it's going to be effective at anything beyond territorial control if a physical product which is what some companies are really worried about.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by KRW1

How does online authentification stop piracy? I don't know how it works, but lets suppose I take my player, load a disc, it checks to see if its authentic and it is, but I then plug my player into my PC play and rip the disc and upload it? Somebody else downloads the file and plays it on a media player.

I don't see how it's going to be effective at anything beyond territorial control if a physical product which is what some companies are really worried about.

The idea is simple but based on several insane assumptions.
Let's start with a simple example.

Look at the threads here. Some people stated that they got from some BB retail locations the UHD BDs before the official release date. If these disks could be pirated (not sure what real DRM differences exist between 1.0 and 2.0) the people that got them early could have made copies available on torrent sites before the official release date. Now we are talking "purchases", but if we assume a dishonest employee the retail location got it before they were put on the shelves and the distribution center even earlier and the replicator finished replicating them even earlier.

If the title key is server based and the server does not allow the key to be DL early the disk you buy is useless until release date, and you can't see the film until that date and so it can't be made available before that date on torrent sites (granted the last statement is questionable but not necessarily insane). Where it becomes insane is the assumption that there are people out there that are checking daily the torrent sites(is X available for free DL yet?) until release day eve and if not on release date they will run out to buy the title on the disk.

It does not check the player this is not like BD+ (i.e. not hacked, not plugged into a PVR.....), what it does is before allowing the title key to be DL it can check some simple criteria (i.e. release day is 2/23/2016 it is 2/21/2016 don't DL the key, the guy is going through a VPN/Proxy don't DL the key, the guy's ISP is saying he is in Canada this is a UK release don't DL the key....)