24p?

[CptGreedle]

I heard from Toshiba (who like to report false information) that they are developing a new 24p technology....
to run films made at 24 fps at 24 fps in 1080p... exclusively for HD-DVD... WTF?
I am an animation major, I have studied frame rates a lot. If I know anything, it's that the standard US film runs at 29.97 fps! 24 is suitable for low quality, or even animation. Did I misunderstand this? What are they trying to pull?

[XanderAE]

I don't know much about frame rates and such, but i was udner the impression that US films run at 24 fps or 23.97 something-or-other. Seems odd, they'd encode films to Blu-ray at 24fps when that isnt even how theyre filmed!

EDIT:
Sorry, movies are on HD DVD at 24fps too (thought it prudent I add, seeing as you talk about Toshiba)

[RichiPuppy]

There isn't nothing exclusive about it, even my PS3 does 24p

[Blu-Style]

That 1080p24 support its just needet to run Blu-ray & HDDVD´s smoother on youre TV. There aren´t many tv´s out there who support this feature, but theyre coming... if only youre tv or youre Player can handle this 24p feature, it comes to a 3:2 Pulldown...

[CptGreedle]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070629/nef003.html
This is the article that talks about it. What in the world does it mean?
I mean, I am certain that regular tv runs at 29.97 fps, and that every DVD runs at that as well. So what is all this mumbo jumbo?

[shock_terminal]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

I heard from Toshiba (who like to report false information) that they are developing a new 24p technology....
to run films made at 24 fps at 24 fps in 1080p... exclusively for HD-DVD... WTF?
I am an animation major, I have studied frame rates a lot. If I know anything, it's that the standard US film runs at 29.97 fps! 24 is suitable for low quality, or even animation. Did I misunderstand this? What are they trying to pull?

Standard Def NTSC runs at 29.97 (has to do w/ scan lines and interlaceing, not really FPS).

Standard Def PAL is 25.

Film for theatres is 24 FPS.

By putting movies in 24 FPS they don't have to do screwy things w/ the framerate like the 3:2 pulldown.

Blu-ray is also capable of 24p.

[CptGreedle]

ah ha, that makes some sense. So it is just a way to not resample the fps for the higher NTSC format, and keep it at the original lower 24 like in a movie theater. Well until I see a direct comparison I don't see how running it at 24 fps will make it look any better.

[CptGreedle]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070629/nef003.html
This is the article that talks about it.
I am certain that regular tv runs at 29.97 fps, and that every DVD runs at that as well.
i guess you must be right, this must be a way to just handle a slower fps.

[Blu-Style]

Some people are very sensitiv with 24p and would never buy a tv again without this feature.

others wouldn´t even recognize the effect...

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

I heard from Toshiba (who like to report false information) that they are developing a new 24p technology....
to run films made at 24 fps at 24 fps in 1080p... exclusively for HD-DVD... WTF?
I am an animation major, I have studied frame rates a lot. If I know anything, it's that the standard US film runs at 29.97 fps! 24 is suitable for low quality, or even animation. Did I misunderstand this? What are they trying to pull?

If you're an "animation major" you should consider changing majors or perhaps spending more time studying & investigating movie and television technology.

[CptGreedle]

I am actually a graduate in animation, but I do all my work in 29.97. I do not make things for theaters or film, so I did not know that it had a different fps.
Besides, I thought that 29.97, being a higher frame rate, would look smoother like the difference between an animation made at 12 fps, vs one made at 24 fps.
I have studied it, but since I have graduated, it has been a little while since I needed to know it. (I used to know the exact format for imax too) Either way, what I wanted to know has been answered.

[Deciazulado]

Yes CptGreedle 30fps animation (I'll round up video's 29.97 and 59.94 for simplicity) is smoother than 24fps (Theatrical sound film rate) and starts to take a "live" look. But 24 was chosen about three quarters of a century ago for 35mm theatrical sound, and sound projectors, and theatrical sound movies, run at that, except for a couple of exceptions (and I mean a couple!)

While displays in 60Hz AC countries ran at 60 interlaced fields per second (which allows for a maximum of 60i motion or 30 full frames per second motion) (those are two different things) (For 50Hz AC countries, it's 50i and 25fps). Modern displays take those signal and can refresh them at 50 or 60 full (progressive) rates, some even higher than that (video motion remains 24, 25, 30 or 50i/60i unless using tricky interpolation. Refresh is just rate of display refresh, not video motion)

24fps motion into 60Hz refresh display has it's own tricky repeat field/frame business, so now there's a movement on the electronics industry and video formats (Blu-ray) to show 24fps motion natively for best quality from film material shot ar 24fps (24p)

Maybe this post will be of interest:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...5631#post75631

[blackpixels]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

I heard from Toshiba (who like to report false information) that they are developing a new 24p technology....
to run films made at 24 fps at 24 fps in 1080p... exclusively for HD-DVD... WTF?
I am an animation major, I have studied frame rates a lot. If I know anything, it's that the standard US film runs at 29.97 fps! 24 is suitable for low quality, or even animation. Did I misunderstand this? What are they trying to pull?

Great question and remember they're aren't that many displays yet that support 24p, so it kind of a mute point for now. I know that forthcoming Sony XBR5 LCD's will have multiple frequency interlacing/deinterlacing. Seems this has been just one of the million dollar questions...here are two sites that have helped me out quite a bit with everything, hopefully they will you.

"NTSC Telecine (Transfer of 24fps Film to 60Hz NTSC TV)

Motion picture photography is based on 24 frames per second. Time to call to mind all that math you learned in school and realize that 24 doesn't go into 60 very easily. To boil it down a little, our challenge is to make 4 frames from the film fit as evenly as possible across 10 video fields. We can't just double up the fields on every fourth film frame or we'd get a real 'stuttered' look. Instead, a telecine process is used known as 3-2 pulldown to create 10 video fields from 4 film frames. This form of telecine alternates between creating 3 fields from a film frame and 2 fields from a film frame. Hence the name 3-2."

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...e-10-2000.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc

[Steeb]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

If I know anything, it's that the standard US film runs at 29.97 fps!

Wow... the joke wrote itself, didn't it?

[shock_terminal]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Yes CptGreedle 30fps animation (I'll round up video's 29.97 and 59.94 for simplicity) is smoother than 24fps (Theatrical sound film rate) and starts to take a "live" look. But 24 was chosen about three quarters of a century ago for 35mm theatrical sound, and sound projectors, and theatrical sound movies, run at that, except for a couple of exceptions (and I mean a couple!)

While displays in 60Hz AC countries ran at 60 interlaced fields per second (which allows for a maximum of 60i motion or 30 full frames per second motion) (those are two different things) (For 50Hz AC countries, it's 50i and 25fps). Modern displays take those signal and can refresh them at 50 or 60 full (progressive) rates, some even higher than that (video motion remains 24, 25, 30 or 50i/60i unless using tricky interpolation. Refresh is just rate of display refresh, not video motion)

24fps motion into 60Hz refresh display has it's own tricky repeat field/frame business, so now there's a movement on the electronics industry and video formats (Blu-ray) to show 24fps motion natively for best quality from film material shot ar 24fps (24p)

Maybe this post will be of interest:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...5631#post75631

Just had to 1-up me w/ your technobable huh?
I tried to make it understandable.

I'll go sit in my corner now.
lol

[Deciazulado]

Hey, lets just say our posts complement each other . No need to sit in a corner, good answer.

[whippersnapper]

CptGreedle, I want to puplicly apologize for my sarcastic comment above. It was uncalled for and I feed bad about making it. I misread you and initially thought you were just coming in to blow some smoke. Anyway, sorry.

[FUHNAHTIK]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Well until I see a direct comparison I don't see how running it at 24 fps will make it look any better.

Go into your local Best Buy with a Magnolia Home Theater, look for the Pioneer ELITE Pro-FHD1 Plasma, running the new Pioneer ELITE BD Player, be amazed.

Your welcome. : )

[CptGreedle]

Originally Posted by Steeb

Wow... the joke wrote itself, didn't it?

ummm.. just replace the word "film" with "NTSC" and I AM right. No joke. Just a bad choice of words.
"EXCUUUUUUUUSE MEEEEEEE" :P

[CptGreedle]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

ummm.. just replace the word "film" with "NTSC" and I AM right. No joke. Just a bad choice of words.
"EXCUUUUUUUUSE MEEEEEEE" :P

Thanks everyone for your help, those links are really useful too. I think I understand better what all this 3-2 pull-down and 24p stuff is now. Thanks for the input.