Epson 5040ub: 4K (pixel shift) + HDR + HDMI 2.0

[Badas]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I guess I just need to keep praying that JVC eventually abandons e-shift for a better imager. I'm not holding my breath though. If I had to pull the trigger on another projector tomorrow it would still be a JVC honestly.

They signed a deal with Merdian to supply them exclusively with 4K UHD D-ILA panels. My DreamVision uses one. DreamVision is a sister company and they bought some. So my projector has JVC parts but has no e-shift. It has the stellar contrast which is a plus. Not sure about HDR. I better ask if it is compatible. HDMI board is 2.2. We rigged up the Samsung 4K player and the handshake took forever. However when it was done the colours did look a lot different. I was surprised how dim the picture was. So maybe HDR had kicked in?

Merdian projectors were supose to be even better. The Merdians were selling at $35K tho.

I think the Merdian deal expired last year. So we should see something from JVC soon.

The whole 4K blu-ray didn't really impress me. So we didn't really experiment much with it. I found using the Oppo 103D with Darbee at 30% and the VRS chipset image enhancers got standard 1080P looking so close to 4K anyway. Without the 4K fuss.

[BluRoo98]

Have there been any news reports about other companies coming out with 4K HDR soon also? I only have 11.5 ft to throw an image, but I want to get a larger image than my current 120" if possible. All these projectors seem to need 13.5 ft or more. I'd love to make a 138" panoramic screen - trouble is BenQ seems to be the only one working on short throw projectors. Please elighten me if someone else has one too or is working on one.

[mspar009]

Epson is going to be on their first generation of pixel shifting, while JVC will be on their fourth. JVC does all the basics right (e-shift aside)

[gates70]

Originally Posted by mspar009

Epson is going to be on their first generation of pixel shifting, while JVC will be on their fourth. JVC does all the basics right (e-shift aside)

Epson had e-shift in their LS10000 last year as well.

[Badas]

Originally Posted by gates70

Epson had e-shift in their LS10000 last year as well.

I spent some time with it as well. A mate has the latest e-shift model JVC. From what I could see I thought Epson's was nicer. It was certainly quieter. The JVC makes a noise when e-shift is activated.
Epson's produced a pixel free image with no extra noise. I couldn't see any side effects.

LS10000 did a lot right. The only thing I didn't like was black level. Everything else was rock solid.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Badas

They signed a deal with Merdian to supply them exclusively with 4K UHD D-ILA panels. My DreamVision uses one. DreamVision is a sister company and they bought some. So my projector has JVC parts but has no e-shift. It has the stellar contrast which is a plus. Not sure about HDR. I better ask if it is compatible. HDMI board is 2.2. We rigged up the Samsung 4K player and the handshake took forever. However when it was done the colours did look a lot different. I was surprised how dim the picture was. So maybe HDR had kicked in?

Merdian projectors were supose to be even better. The Merdians were selling at $35K tho.

I think the Merdian deal expired last year. So we should see something from JVC soon.

The whole 4K blu-ray didn't really impress me. So we didn't really experiment much with it. I found using the Oppo 103D with Darbee at 30% and the VRS chipset image enhancers got standard 1080P looking so close to 4K anyway. Without the 4K fuss.

If it shook hands with the Samsung and it looks dimmer as well, then I think it most likely IS showing in HDR. I read that the brightness does seem to drop overall with HDR enabled. I don't know if your picture setting sub menu mirrors what JVC factory projectors do; but I do know that JVC has since posted guidelines on their website after owners were unsure how to set the picture settings with HDR enabled after the image dims somewhat. The real takeaway is we have no way to really calibrate HDR yet, even JVC is shooting from the hip with these recomendations. I think Dolby Vision would solve some of these problems but it brings multiple difficuluties for projector manufacturers to implement (probably another post entirely).

Check it out if you haven't already.

http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...rs400_uhd.html

[Badas]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

If it shook hands with the Samsung and it looks dimmer as well, then I think it most likely IS showing in HDR. I read that the brightness does seem to drop overall with HDR enabled. I don't know if your picture setting sub menu mirrors what JVC factory projectors do; but I do know that JVC has since posted guidelines on their website after owners were unsure how to set the picture settings with HDR enabled after the image dims somewhat. The real takeaway is we have no way to really calibrate HDR yet, even JVC is shooting from the hip with these recomendations. I think Dolby Vision would solve some of these problems but it brings multiple difficuluties for projector manufacturers to implement (probably another post entirely).

Check it out if you haven't already.

http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...rs400_uhd.html

Thanks. Great info.

I emailed DreamVison. Yes HDR. They said the same thing. Not easy to calibrate. They have a new firmware and manual coming soon for HDR calibration. So they seem on to it. New firmware is also going to speed up HDMI lock.

Now I just need Oppo to release a 4K player.

My AVR passes 4K, decodes Atmos but not DTS-X. So I might have to look at that also. Or maybe live without it?

[Blue Bull]

Does anybody knows if there a review out for this unit yet?

[Badas]

Originally Posted by srinivas1015

How drastic is the brightness drop? Is it akin to enabling 3D?

Yeah. It is close to 3D dimming.

On my projector it was about 25-30%.

Fortunately with projectors you can play with the manual iris. However opening the iris will raise your black level as well.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Badas

Yeah. It is close to 3D dimming.

On my projector it was about 25-30%.

Fortunately with projectors you can play with the manual iris. However opening the iris will raise your black level as well.

Yeah I have been watching a Home Theater Geeks with Scott Wilkinson and he has on Florian Friedrich as a guest talking about calibrating HDR. Essentially what some of the take away here is that in HDR we essentially throw gamma curve that we have traditionally known in the trash when it comes to setting luminessence values for the display. So in an HDR display a luminence value has a set number given to it in the mastering process, and metadata tells the display how to remap that to its own capabilities. The issue is every display will remap this differently. Except Dolby Vision would try to get it to remap to the "golden standard" meaning the mapping should match the reference monitor. Well the problem that I see with doing that with projectors (less so than a panel display) is that the capability of the projector is highly variable depdnding on lamp age, the lens f-stop due to the lens setting, the throw distance, and the screen material! No one seems to be talking about with this much with projectors anywhere yet. As a result, I still don't understand how you properly set brightness/contrast other than just doing it to personal preference. Furthermore, I don't know how or if Dolby Vision will ever be able to really be properly implemented in a consumer projector.

The deeper I dig in to understanding HDR, the more beffuddled I become by the standards chosen, and the stuff on the horizon (can anyone say both Dolby Vision AND hybrid log gamma and HDMI 2.1) with competing HDR standards which solve some problems but comes with its own set of other challenges to being implemented. Apparently, many are saying this new Oppo won't be Dolby Vision capabable. But who knows, maybe Dolby Vision in my next projector is kind of a pipe dream anyway so maybe that doesn't matter.

I just want to see the technology get to the bottom of how we properly set luminence values in projectors that may only ever top out at say 125 nits of brightness.. and by properly I mean calibrated to the intent of the source material, not just eyeballed. I mean lets get real here projectors in the home are never going to come anywhere remotely near 1000 nits brightness, which is what they want to master material to. Heck DCI projectors in the commercial cinema probably won't ever get to 1000 nits brightness (I once read that Dolby Cinema with the new laser Barco can do maybe 200 nits). This is so half baked. Once that dust settles on that front I can get stoked for 10 or 12 bit color and DCI color gamut.

I'm very curious how your projector handles HDR once you set it up properly. I'm very curious what this new firmware update will allow you to do for calibration of HDR and what kind of guidance they give you. It almost sounds like they may be ahead of JVC then with some of this. Did you replace your first Dreamvision projector with this HDR capabable one recently? Maybe that all is best left to a brand new thread. Whoooo. That was long winded. Hope I didn't lose you.

[Badas]

Yeah. We should move this elsewhere. I'm happy in your thread or mine.

I will give this last post about it here.

It is difficult to work out what DreamVision is saying about the firmware and how the projector is going to handle HDR in their email response. DreamVision is a French company and even tho the email is in English it is kinda broken English if you know what I mean.
From what I can make out. It says quicker HDMI handshake with 4K, a new preset colour mode will be made for HDR. This mode will lock out the users ability to make colour calibration but it will enable all the HDR colours to be displayed. It will allow the user to select a white colour mode. Like 6500K for example. It will also allow iris adjustment. They said a new manual will explain how to choose the correct white colour mode based on different screen reflection.
What it doesn't talk about is brightness and contrast. I suspect that will lock out the user as well as it will screw up colour.

Firmware is due to customers early September. So I will get to play with it soon.
My mate has the Samsung 4K player (which he allows me to use) and the Panasonic 4K player has just come on the market here at a reasonable price. So I might get that as a stop gap until a Oppo player is released.

[flyinmunky99]

If anyone comes across input lag times for gaming or if it still has a game mode and how it effects image quality please pm me or post in thread, cheers!

I have a old tw5500 model on a 120" screen which still gives a decent image but I think this would be a good step up. Only problem is Epson have been pretty poor with input lag on last few models. Seems like only Sony in this budget range has low input lag but Id prefer this Epson.

fingers crossed and can pair it with a PlayStation Neo when that comes out.

[DavePS3]

From what I've read, the Epsons have not been native 4K and only at 60hz. Their laser pixel shift is the same price as the Sony native 4K lamp projector. I'd go for the Sony at 120hz

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Badas

[Show spoiler]Yeah. We should move this elsewhere. I'm happy in your thread or mine.

I will give this last post about it here.

It is difficult to work out what DreamVision is saying about the firmware and how the projector is going to handle HDR in their email response. DreamVision is a French company and even tho the email is in English it is kinda broken English if you know what I mean.
From what I can make out. It says quicker HDMI handshake with 4K, a new preset colour mode will be made for HDR. This mode will lock out the users ability to make colour calibration but it will enable all the HDR colours to be displayed. It will allow the user to select a white colour mode. Like 6500K for example. It will also allow iris adjustment. They said a new manual will explain how to choose the correct white colour mode based on different screen reflection.
What it doesn't talk about is brightness and contrast. I suspect that will lock out the user as well as it will screw up colour.

Firmware is due to customers early September. So I will get to play with it soon.
My mate has the Samsung 4K player (which he allows me to use) and the Panasonic 4K player has just come on the market here at a reasonable price. So I might get that as a stop gap until a Oppo player is released.

I set up a thread in the Ultra Hd Blu-Ray and 4K Hardware and Technology area called "Is hoping for Dolby Vision in a projector a lost cause" where we can discuss many of the technical things that pertain to this. Otherwise, with specifics to your DreamVision I would be happy to hunt down your theater thread. I haven't poked my head in there for a while.

[2pacalypsenow]

Thinking of getting a projector what would I be loosing by buying this over the DLA-X550R?

[Badas]

Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow

Thinking of getting a projector what would I be loosing by buying this over the DLA-X550R?

Yip. You will be losing a lot of native contrast.

[2pacalypsenow]

Originally Posted by Badas

Yip. You will be losing a lot of contrast.

That's all I needed to know, thanks

[flyinmunky99]

From what i have read it seems the JVC will have better Blacks including a overall much better native contrast as expected.

I will using the PS4 for gaming on mine as well as movies so I had to rule the JVC out due to its high input lag.

If gaming wasn't important to me and the price difference wasn't a issue I would have gone for JVC.

I think the Epson is great value for money considering all the features they had added.

[Badas]

Originally Posted by flyinmunky99

From what i have read it seems the JVC will have better Blacks including a overall much better native contrast as expected.

I will using the PS4 for gaming on mine as well as movies so I had to rule the JVC out due to its high input lag.

If gaming wasn't important to me and the price difference wasn't a issue I would have gone for JVC.

I think the Epson is great value for money considering all the features they had added.

I've never really got the gaming lag problem. I know JVC is the worst. My DreamVision really is a supercharged JVC. It uses JVC processor boards etc.
I've use mine for gaming all the time and never had issues. Recently gone on-line with Star Wars battlefront. No issues there either. I get far more kills than deaths.
I hit my controller and whatever I do seems to be onscreen instantly.

[i007spectre]

Got an email yesterday that said this was available to purchase. Really tempted but true 4K projectors should become more affordable in a year. So as long as 4K movies continue to come with a regular blu-ray copy I am ok waiting.