Uncompressed or Dolby Digital?

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

What? Doesn't DVD support up to 48/24 PCM in 5.1,

No, it supports 5.1 24/48khz Dts lossy, and 5.1 18-20bit 48khz DD lossy. It does not support incompressed 5.1, as that would exceed the capacity of the output.

I know it isn't all just to be passed as analogue. In fact, there are some, extremely rare though they are, components that pass 192/24 PCM in stereo via s/pdif-toslink - why wouldn't it do 48/24 5.1?

The bandwidth of 2.0 stereo 24/192khz would not be exceeded on toslink or coaxial. However anything over two channels would exceed the bandwidth of the output.

As for Bass Management with 96/24 LPCM 2.0, you are mistaken. It is definitely dependent on the component for sure. If it can handle, it will do bass management, if it can't it won't. My Denon DVD-2200 universal player has a setting that allows me to add LFE to a 2-channel signal, be it 96/24 or otherwise. My Sony SCD-XA9000ES does this with 2-channel SACDs as well.

Well actually I am not. A 2.0 stereo signal would not have a LFE channel to bass manage. A 2.1 signal would. There is a huge difference between using DSP's that insert a filter to channel the bass below X frequency to the subwoofer and a LFE channel. A LFE channel has to be created and monitored, a filter(or DSP based crossover) just channels whatever low bass frequencies that are in the stereo signal to the sub. Dolby surround (2.0 stereo) does not have a LFE channel, but filters are used to direct the low bass to the subwoofer.

You are not adding anything, you are redirecting what is already there at X frequency to a sub. A LFE channel is created in the studio, and does not require a filter at all except that which the encoder imposes.

However, for whatever reason, my Sony DA4ES AVR will not apply bass management (or PLII or dts:neo or any other processing) to any 96/24 signal.

It probably does not have the processing power to handle signals over 48khz

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

No, it supports 5.1 24/48khz Dts lossy, and 5.1 18-20bit 48khz DD lossy. It does not support incompressed 5.1, as that would exceed the capacity of the output.

Come to think of it, I may have been confusing the DVD and DVD-A specs.

Well actually I am not. A 2.0 stereo signal would not have a LFE channel to bass manage. A 2.1 signal would. There is a huge difference between using DSP's that insert a filter to channel the bass below X frequency to the subwoofer and a LFE channel. A LFE channel has to be created and monitored, a filter(or DSP based crossover) just channels whatever low bass frequencies that are in the stereo signal to the sub. Dolby surround (2.0 stereo) does not have a LFE channel, but filters are used to direct the low bass to the subwoofer.

I know what an LFE channel is, (I record and mix in multichannel on a daily basis) however, in the realm of consumer gear, that still falls under Bass Management, even if it is just redirecting low frequencies. It is, essentially, creating an LFE. 'Reprocessing', if you will. Where do you find the settings for this feature on most gear? Under Bass Management, because that is what it is. It is managing the bass frequencies.

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

These days, yes, but we are talking about all soundtracks in total. That means, the vast majority of soundtracks are still analogue. Obviously, at some point in the future there will be a crossover point when that will change, but for now, it hasn't.

As for music, you don't have to tell me, that's my business.

Then I guess music is both of our business

Obviously you are correct about soundtracks being mostly analog, talkies began back in the 1920 or 1930's. Obviously the studios are not pushing movies that were released back in the 30 and 40's, they are pushing current movies that were done in the 80's till now. When we referring to that period, then overwhelmingly more soundtracks within that period where digitally created, or at some point exported to digital equipment for processing. As soundtracks have become more complex, working in analog is extremely inefficient and somewhat unwieldy. I would say since 1992 a vast majority of the soundtracks created for film have been done purely in the digital domain, with the exception of the score recording.

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

I know what an LFE channel is, (I record and mix in multichannel on a daily basis) however, in the realm of consumer gear, that still falls under Bass Management, even if it is just redirecting low frequencies. It is, essentially, creating an LFE. 'Reprocessing', if you will. Where do you find the settings for this feature on most gear? Under Bass Management, because that is what it is. It is managing the bass frequencies.

Create essentially means to make something from nothing. To produce. Using that definition you are incorrect in your assertion that you are creating a LFE by using a filter. Bass management as created by consumer products allows for bass in the main channels to be directed to a subwoofer for use with ALL supported formats. Bass management as defined by SMPTE standards does not apply to 2.0 stereo because it is not uniformly supported by all receivers and DVD players in the field. It is a hit and miss proposition or an option. The term bass management does universally apply to 5.1 signals because all components that support 5.1 signals can process it universally. However for the sake of keeping things simple, you can use the term as you please.

You are mixing LFE and subwoofer together. I can have a LFE channel even in the absence of a dedicated subwoofer. It is in fact an actual channel. There is no such thing as a subwoofer channel per se, because it is not created. It is for redirecting purposes only. The act of filtering bass and moving it to the subwoofer channel is not creating a LFE channel, it is simply filtering and directing bass to a bass capable channel. Totally different process. You cannot create a LFE channel outside of the studio, but you can filter and send bass to a subwoofer. The LFE can be directed to the most bass capable channel (that could include the L/R mains). There is no LFE channel in 2.0 stereo to redirect, however there is bass that can be filtered and directed to a sub.

A LFE channel, and a subwoofer output are not the same thing.

[PeterTHX]

Hate to throw a monkey wrench here but there is a multichannel PCM option in the Red Book DVD-Video spec. It was never used.

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Hate to throw a monkey wrench here but there is a multichannel PCM option in the Red Book DVD-Video spec. It was never used.

I would expect that bandwidth would be why.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

Create essentially means to make something from nothing. To produce. Using that definition you are incorrect in your assertion that you are creating a LFE by using a filter. Bass management as created by consumer products allows for bass in the main channels to be directed to a subwoofer for use with ALL supported formats. Bass management as defined by SMPTE standards does not apply to 2.0 stereo because it is not uniformly supported by all receivers and DVD players in the field. It is a hit and miss proposition or an option. The term bass management does universally apply to 5.1 signals because all components that support 5.1 signals can process it universally. However for the sake of keeping things simple, you can use the term as you please.

You are mixing LFE and subwoofer together. I can have a LFE channel even in the absence of a dedicated subwoofer. It is in fact an actual channel. There is no such thing as a subwoofer channel per se, because it is not created. It is for redirecting purposes only. The act of filtering bass and moving it to the subwoofer channel is not creating a LFE channel, it is simply filtering and directing bass to a bass capable channel. Totally different process. You cannot create a LFE channel outside of the studio, but you can filter and send bass to a subwoofer. The LFE can be directed to the most bass capable channel (that could include the L/R mains). There is no LFE channel in 2.0 stereo to redirect, however there is bass that can be filtered and directed to a sub.

A LFE channel, and a subwoofer output are not the same thing.

Well, we're into the realm of semantics here, so I won't belabor the point.

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Peculiar.
Perhaps your Elite told the PS3 it can't handle the flag or something.
My Onkyo reads "Multichannel PCM 3/2 48kHz" when playing TrueHD tracks, the onscreen PS3 guide says "TrueHD" and the bitrate bounces between 990kbps and 3.3 Mbps on "Iwo Jima" and 3-5Mbps on "Jazz"

Any other soundtracks (DD or DTS) the receiver will read "Dolby D" / "Dolby D EX" or "DTS"/"DTS ES". HDMI 1.1 is a 2 way street and the receiver should tell the output device what it can or can't handle.

I assume there is a problem on my receivers end then, even though it is a 1.2a and should have no problem with this. I use the bitstream for all tracks, but the TrueHD, because of the DD on the receiver. Thanks for the info, I will have to check into this further. If anyone else sees this, let me know what you see coming through the bitstream.