Native Res, Dynamic Res, & 1080P/720P Questions

[Santeria]

Hi i was always wondering...

1) what is native resolution and how does it affect PQ on a tv
2) what is dynamic resolution and how does it affect PQ on a tv
3) what are the differences between the two?
4) how do 1080p and 720p affect PQ
5) how much of a difference is there between 1080p vs 720p, pending youre sitting 7 feet away and have two identical tvs and youre watching a blu-ray?

i mean i always see this stuff advertised OMG 1 MILLION DYNAMIC res but what does it mean?

[Santeria]

anyone?

[DeadDog]

Originally Posted by Furashu

Hi i was always wondering...

1) what is native resolution and how does it affect PQ on a tv
2) what is dynamic resolution and how does it affect PQ on a tv
3) what are the differences between the two?
4) how do 1080p and 720p affect PQ
5) how much of a difference is there between 1080p vs 720p, pending youre sitting 7 feet away and have two identical tvs and youre watching a blu-ray?

i mean i always see this stuff advertised OMG 1 MILLION DYNAMIC res but what does it mean?

I'll help the best I can. Here's what I know.

1.) Native resolution---This refers to a sets pixel count (ie. 720p, 1080p etc). A set only has one native resolution which will be stated in the specs. For example a true 1080p set will have a resolution of 1920x1080. Meaning there are 1920 horizontal pixels and 1080 vertical pixels. 720p sets vary a little more with resolutions of 1366x768 and 1280x720 and maybe others. Most sets now can handle accepting other resolution feeds (like a blu-ray sending a 1080p movie to a 720p screen) The TV will just "down-convert" the picture to its native resolution.

2.) Dynamic Resolution---I think you mean Dynamic Contrast Ratio. This refers to the sets range of light to dark. The bigger the number essentially the better (although specs on paper aren't always an accurate assessment). Say a set has a Dynamic Contrast Ration of 10,000:1. The upper number represents the "brightest" value and the 1 represents the "darkest" value. Essentially this means that when the set is at its brightest it is 10,000 times brighter than it is when it's complete dark. The bigger the ratio the better the TV will look. It will have a better range of blacks to whites. More "Vibrant" if you will.

3.) The difference---See above

4.) 1080p vs 720p---You can look around this forum and seen plenty of opinions on this. The common thought is that on sets 50" or under the difference is minimal depending upon seating distance. A 1080p set is capable of displaying all a blu-ray has to offer. A 720p set will have to "scale" the picture down to fit the native resolution of the TV. Ideally a 1080p set will show more detail than that of a 720p, but whether one can see the difference is debatable. This article explains this better.
http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/

5.) The difference at 7 ft.---This chart is helpful for determining whether getting a 1080p set is worth the extra money/value.



On a 50" TV at 7ft away you would begin to see the benefit of 1080p. Whereas with a 40" TV would be be right at the maximum 720p benefit. For me I went with a 720p set, even though I may have seen a difference in the picture, I didn't see the need to spend the extra money at the time. I also wear glasses/contacts so my eyes are far from perfect and I took that into consideration as well.

Hopefully I did an O.K. job of answering some of your questions. If I'm wrong on anything someone please nicely point it out . I hope this helps and let me know if you need me to clarify anything.

[MoPe]

Originally Posted by Furashu

Hi i was always wondering...

1) what is native resolution and how does it affect PQ on a tv
2) what is dynamic resolution and how does it affect PQ on a tv
3) what are the differences between the two?
4) how do 1080p and 720p affect PQ
5) how much of a difference is there between 1080p vs 720p, pending youre sitting 7 feet away and have two identical tvs and youre watching a blu-ray?

i mean i always see this stuff advertised OMG 1 MILLION DYNAMIC res but what does it mean?

Wow. Expect a reply in 5 hours, in the middle of the night when everyone is normally asleep?

Well, a google search helped expand on your questions.


1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_resolution

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras...contrast_ratio

3. Read the two articles above.

4. http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/


Enjoy.

[My_Two_Cents]

These topics have been covered numerous times in theis forum. I'll cover the dynamic contrast ratio question, as this is a pet-peeve of mine. Dynamic contrast ratio is all marketing hype designed to entice the masses who think bigger numbers mean....better. Read these two articles linked below:

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17914_1-9985085-89.html

ANSI/Native Contrast ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that are shown in the set AT THE SAME TIME (like white lettering on a black field or a black and white checkerboard). So a native contrast ratio of 20,000:1 means the black is 20,000 times darker than white. This is the TRUE definition of contrast ratio, because you will always be watching a picture with both light and dark areas displayed at the same time.

Dynamic Contrast Ratio - This is the difference between the whitest white and blackest black that the set is capale of displaying INDEPENDENTLY. So, put an all-white picture on the set and measure it, and then send an all black signal to the set (essentially the set is off) and measure that. Naturally you will get much bigger numbers, but for what purpose? Who is ever going to care what an all-white signal looks like versus the set being off? The reason this number is used predominantly in LCDs is because their native contrast ratios are very low (no counting the new LED backlit sets), so they don't look as good on paper (and hence, in person) as sets with higher contrast ratios. Blacks aren't black, they are more of a dark grey due to the backlight bleeding into the dark areas.

So ignore dynamic contrast ratio numbers. They mean nothing.

[PurpleAardvark]

I agree contrast is a joke. With panasonic, sony and LG it is a mes. of the frame and a white pix. That is how the 1,000,000:1 on panny and the 50,000:1 on the sony XBR6 came to be. The frame is pitch black which is a negitive number which helped them to increase the contrast. To be honest the sammy 7 and 8 series lcd have better blacks and white's out of most the tv's I have seen. The Pioneer is the best of all though.

[MoPe]

Originally Posted by PurpleAardvark

I agree contrast is a joke. With panasonic, sony and LG it is a mes. of the frame and a white pix. That is how the 1,000,000:1 on panny and the 50,000:1 on the sony XBR6 came to be. The frame is pitch black which is a negitive number which helped them to increase the contrast. To be honest the sammy 7 and 8 series lcd have better blacks and white's out of most the tv's I have seen. The Pioneer is the best of all though.

While I agree with you I personally think if your looking for the whole package the XBR6 is the way to go. Not as black as the Sammy but overall better and more accuate colors. Thats just the general disposition on these though.

Can`t go wrong with a Sammy Panny or Sony.

[Santeria]

Originally Posted by MoPe

Wow. Expect a reply in 5 hours, in the middle of the night when everyone is normally asleep?

Well, a google search helped expand on your questions.


1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_resolution

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras...contrast_ratio

3. Read the two articles above.

4. http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/


Enjoy.

thanks

lol i made this thread at like 7:50 am over here...

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by PurpleAardvark

I agree contrast is a joke. With panasonic, sony and LG it is a mes. of the frame and a white pix. That is how the 1,000,000:1 on panny and the 50,000:1 on the sony XBR6 came to be. The frame is pitch black which is a negitive number which helped them to increase the contrast. To be honest the sammy 7 and 8 series lcd have better blacks and white's out of most the tv's I have seen. The Pioneer is the best of all though.

That's incorrect, it's a measure of the panel with a 100% black signal being sent, then a measure of the panel with the whitest white being sent. That's what dynamic contrast is. Panasonic also put the NATIVE contrast listed too, which is 40,000:1, not hidden anywhere...listed right beside the dynamic contrast ratio.

Seems you neglected to mention that though. In fact, not including what type of contrast you're talking about is the joke. Dynamic contrast means nothing, ANSI contrast means everything.

In fact on Panasonic's press release for their 2009 LCD's it doesn't list the dynamic contrast within the model at all:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...72009012646554

G1 Series

Panasonic’s top-of-the-line LCD is the VIERA G1 series featuring the 1080p TC-L37G1, 37-inch class (37” measured diagonally) TV and the 720p TC-L32G1, 32-inch class (31.5” measured diagonally) model. Both TVs offer 120Hz Motion Picture Pro3 technology that ensures crisp, focused images for sports, dramatic action, and all other fast-moving scenes; an IPS Alpha Display Panel that deliver a 178º wide viewing angle and bright, clear images from any location in the room; and VIERA Image Viewer that provides the consumer with an easy way to view and share their digital photos via the TV’s built-in SD card reader. The G1 LCD’s also feature VIERA Link™; a PC input; Game mode, a 20:000:1 contrast ratio; 3 HDMI inputs, and a swivel base and narrow bezel design. The G1 series will be available in April 2009.

S1 Series

The VIERA LCD S1 series, available in March 2009, features two screen sizes with 1080p resolution - the 32-inch class (31.5” measured diagonally) and 37-inch class (37” measured diagonally) models. These two televisions feature Motion Focus technology; IPS Alpha Panel with 178% viewing angle; the VIERA Image Viewer function; VIERA Link; 15,000:1 native contrast ratio; PC Input, 3 HDMI inputs and Game mode.

X1 Series

Panasonic’s 720p VIERA X1 LCD series introduces both an iPod entertainment Kit and the new19-inch class (19” measured diagonally) screen size to the LCD family. There are three more screen sizes in this line – 26-inch class (26” measured diagonally), 32-inch class (31.5” measured diagonally) and 37-inch class (37” measured diagonally). The iPod® entertainment kit allows consumer to enjoy their iPod music and videos on the X1 series’ high definition screen and provides the unique convenience of controlling the playback of iPod content using only the VIERA’s remote control. Other X1 features includes VIERA Image Viewer; VIERA Link™; a PC input; a Game mode; a 12000:1 contrast ratio, and 3 HDMI inputs on the 32” and 37” screen sizes. The 37-inch and 32-inch will be available in March 2009, 26-inch in April and the 19-inch in August.

You talk about how much you hate fanboyism in another thread today and yet you're posting about stuff you don't even know.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by PurpleAardvark

I agree contrast is a joke. With panasonic, sony and LG it is a mes. of the frame and a white pix. That is how the 1,000,000:1 on panny and the 50,000:1 on the sony XBR6 came to be. The frame is pitch black which is a negitive number which helped them to increase the contrast. To be honest the sammy 7 and 8 series lcd have better blacks and white's out of most the tv's I have seen. The Pioneer is the best of all though.

WHAT??? Where are you getting this information from? There is a standard used to measure contrast ratio, and it most certainly does NOT allow for measuring the frame against a white picture. Why don't you read the following articles and attempt to learn something for a change.

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html
http://www.cnet.com/8301-17914_1-9985085-89.html

To summarize"

Native (ANSI) Contrast Ratio - The ratio of the blackest black versus the whitest white when BOTH are displayed on the set at the same time using the standard ANSI pattern. The is the only meaningful measure of contrast ratio.

Dynamic Contrast Ratio - Same ratio, but black is measured with only a black signal sent (set is essentially off) and white is an all-white screen. Totally meaningless, as no one watches an all-white or all-black screen, but the numbers are significantly higher, and therefore look better in marketing literature.

Find me one place in those articles that says contrast ratio is measured against the frame color....

[Santeria]

thanks guys for the great links, info, and such.

i think i will wait till the new panny models come out so the older models drop...