Blu-ray layers - Blu-ray Forum

goBR · 08-04-2006, 03:44 PM

According to the FAQ.

1.5 How much data can you fit on a Blu-ray disc?

A single-layer disc can hold 25GB.
A dual-layer disc can hold 50GB.

To ensure that the Blu-ray Disc format is easily extendable (future-proof) it also includes support for multi-layer discs, which should allow the storage capacity to be increased to 100GB-200GB (25GB per layer) in the future simply by adding more layers to the discs.

But I'm confused by what was said by AV_Integrated:

"HD-DVD could go triple layer which would put it in line with Blu-ray for storage space. Blu-ray can NOT go beyond 50GB for movie discs, this is per spec. HD-DVD can. So, that's enough."

Why is there even movie specs to limit the size? Is there a link about this on a technical site?

BTBuck1 · 08-04-2006, 04:47 PM

the BDA has put the spec (at this time at max 50gb)

The DVDforum has rescently added 45gb tripple layer to their spec.

the verdict isn't out on 45gb & wether the players can even support it.

50gb is still no where in site, but is within spec of players readilty avail.

AV_Integrated · 08-04-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goBR

Why is there even movie specs to limit the size? Is there a link about this on a technical site?

The reason for a specification for movie size is that the players that are released on day 1 must be compatible with all movies that will EVER be released on Blu-ray. In three years, when BD50 is commonplace and suddenly BD75 discs became available, then if studios wanted to use those for movies every single player sold to that point would become obsolete.

That is simply unacceptable for almost everyone. People are already screaming about the HDTVs that they bought 4-5+ years ago that don't have DVI or HDMI connections on them that are HDCP compliant. How do you think they would react to their 1 or 2 year old Blu-ray player being obsolete?

Instead, a specification is set from day 1. This says that all players must be able to read single and dual layer discs. Not triple layer or quad layer, but double layer max.

Now - I am not 100% sure that HD-DVD can go triple layer, but that is what I have heard. That it is allowed, and current players could do it. Heck if I'm an insider and know that for sure though.

Psiweaver · 08-04-2006, 07:38 PM

Yeah though triple layer HD DVD is still no where in site and my guess probably won't come into the marketplace until next year.

Dave · 08-04-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

Yeah though triple layer HD DVD is still no where in site and my guess probably won't come into the marketplace until next year.

Yes HD DVD has no 45GB and will have not any time soon. BD have 50GB alredy and have 100GB prototypes and 200GB posibility.

See botom of page: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...Name=acc&var2=

JTK · 08-04-2006, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Yes HD DVD has no 45GB and will have not any time soon.

Source? Link?

How do you know this one way or the other?

Quote:

BD have 50GB alredy and have 100GB prototypes and 200GB posibility.

See botom of page: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...Name=acc&var2=

So when are they going to start putting movies out on BD50's, at least?

Before the year is out, I hope?

zombie · 08-04-2006, 09:19 PM

I would agree, speculation as to when BD50 will be available and when HD45 will be available runs high. There's no concrete date for either yet.

JTK · 08-04-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyg

I would agree, speculation as to when BD50 will be available and when HD45 will be available runs high. There's no concrete date for either yet.

Unfortuneately.

AV_Integrated · 08-05-2006, 02:48 AM

If I were Toshiba, which I'm not... If I had competition that I expected to release 50GB discs, and I knew that my format could do 45GB discs, then I would develop 45GB discs and manufacture all my players from day one with 45GB read capabilities if I could.

Then, I would wait. I would wait for the competition to go "See, we have 50GB!" and then I would respond with... "Yeah, and we have 45GB, what's your point?"

Saying Blu-ray has 50GB discs is just like saying HD-DVD has 45GB discs. Blu-ray has NO movies available on 50GB and their production rates are phenomenally low so we won't see 50GB movies for a while yet - perhaps not until next year. Unless, of course, spin coating works.

Dave - you gotta get the facts on Blu-ray down, because Blu-ray is seriously playing catch up right now. Perhaps by the holidays this year they will be there, but right now... ??? A lot of vaporware is available.

suprmallet · 08-05-2006, 06:18 AM

According to amir on AVS, Toshiba has told him that all HD DVD players currently available are able to read 45GB discs. If this is true, and all upcoming planned HD DVD players also have this capability, then the DVD Forum could safely add 45GB discs to the official spec without a problem (Brian said it was already added, but I'm not sure if it's official or not).

Also according to amir on AVS, there is at this time no work being done on 45GB discs because no studios have asked for it. He said the quickest way to get 45GB discs would be for a BD-only studio like Fox to require it as a condition of supporting HD as well as BD.

Amir ALSO said it would be easier to manufacture a 45GB HD disc than a 50GB BD disc, but not as easy as a 25GB BD disc.

I'm just reporting what he said, take it for what you will.

As for 100GB-200GB prototypes, unless all BD players out now and currently planned have the built-in ability to read those discs, you will never see a movie released on a 100GB-200GB disc.

JTK · 08-05-2006, 02:16 PM

Believe it when you actually see it. That goes for both formats. There's plenty of hype to go all the way around.

Psiweaver · 08-05-2006, 08:11 PM

Amir is also not the least bit biased and so I would tend to throw out some of what he says as hype. Blu-Ray DL 50 gig discs are avaliable as burnable discs so it shouldn't be much longer until we see them as authored discs. My guess is before the end of the year. Thats the rumblings i've been hearing. My guess is that those rumblings will be confirmed at CEDIA. Now thats not 100% for sure but that would be a guess based on the information that i have. HD DVD 45 gig discs are probably another year or two off as they haven't even started trying to make them.

suprmallet · 08-06-2006, 01:58 AM

Well, at least amir admitted they aren't even trying to manufacture TL HD yet. It's not like he's out there saying "45GB HD is coming any day now!"

08-04-2006, 03:44 PM	#1
goBR Junior Member Member since:Jun 2006	Blu-ray layers According to the FAQ. 1.5 How much data can you fit on a Blu-ray disc? A single-layer disc can hold 25GB. A dual-layer disc can hold 50GB. To ensure that the Blu-ray Disc format is easily extendable (future-proof) it also includes support for multi-layer discs, which should allow the storage capacity to be increased to 100GB-200GB (25GB per layer) in the future simply by adding more layers to the discs. But I'm confused by what was said by AV_Integrated: "HD-DVD could go triple layer which would put it in line with Blu-ray for storage space. Blu-ray can NOT go beyond 50GB for movie discs, this is per spec. HD-DVD can. So, that's enough." Why is there even movie specs to limit the size? Is there a link about this on a technical site? Last edited by nyg; 08-04-2006 at 04:05 PM.

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08-04-2006, 04:47 PM	#2
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	the BDA has put the spec (at this time at max 50gb) The DVDforum has rescently added 45gb tripple layer to their spec. the verdict isn't out on 45gb & wether the players can even support it. 50gb is still no where in site, but is within spec of players readilty avail.

08-04-2006, 07:38 PM	#4
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	Yeah though triple layer HD DVD is still no where in site and my guess probably won't come into the marketplace until next year.

08-04-2006, 09:19 PM	#7
zombie Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:May 2004 Trading Score:865	I would agree, speculation as to when BD50 will be available and when HD45 will be available runs high. There's no concrete date for either yet.

08-05-2006, 02:48 AM	#9
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	If I were Toshiba, which I'm not... If I had competition that I expected to release 50GB discs, and I knew that my format could do 45GB discs, then I would develop 45GB discs and manufacture all my players from day one with 45GB read capabilities if I could. Then, I would wait. I would wait for the competition to go "See, we have 50GB!" and then I would respond with... "Yeah, and we have 45GB, what's your point?" Saying Blu-ray has 50GB discs is just like saying HD-DVD has 45GB discs. Blu-ray has NO movies available on 50GB and their production rates are phenomenally low so we won't see 50GB movies for a while yet - perhaps not until next year. Unless, of course, spin coating works. Dave - you gotta get the facts on Blu-ray down, because Blu-ray is seriously playing catch up right now. Perhaps by the holidays this year they will be there, but right now... ??? A lot of vaporware is available.

08-05-2006, 06:18 AM	#10
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	According to amir on AVS, Toshiba has told him that all HD DVD players currently available are able to read 45GB discs. If this is true, and all upcoming planned HD DVD players also have this capability, then the DVD Forum could safely add 45GB discs to the official spec without a problem (Brian said it was already added, but I'm not sure if it's official or not). Also according to amir on AVS, there is at this time no work being done on 45GB discs because no studios have asked for it. He said the quickest way to get 45GB discs would be for a BD-only studio like Fox to require it as a condition of supporting HD as well as BD. Amir ALSO said it would be easier to manufacture a 45GB HD disc than a 50GB BD disc, but not as easy as a 25GB BD disc. I'm just reporting what he said, take it for what you will. As for 100GB-200GB prototypes, unless all BD players out now and currently planned have the built-in ability to read those discs, you will never see a movie released on a 100GB-200GB disc.

08-05-2006, 02:16 PM	#11
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	Believe it when you actually see it. That goes for both formats. There's plenty of hype to go all the way around.

08-05-2006, 08:11 PM	#12
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	Amir is also not the least bit biased and so I would tend to throw out some of what he says as hype. Blu-Ray DL 50 gig discs are avaliable as burnable discs so it shouldn't be much longer until we see them as authored discs. My guess is before the end of the year. Thats the rumblings i've been hearing. My guess is that those rumblings will be confirmed at CEDIA. Now thats not 100% for sure but that would be a guess based on the information that i have. HD DVD 45 gig discs are probably another year or two off as they haven't even started trying to make them.

08-06-2006, 01:58 AM	#13
suprmallet Active Member Member since:Jun 2006 Blu-ray collection:264	Well, at least amir admitted they aren't even trying to manufacture TL HD yet. It's not like he's out there saying "45GB HD is coming any day now!"

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