Large 4K HDR TV vs. 4K HDR Projector

[LettuceJUMP]

Hello folks,
I've watched over 120+ different titles on my OLED 65" B6. And previously prior to jumping into my OLED, I owned a 75" 4K (Non HDR) TV. And to be perfectly frank, there are maybe 5-10 titles that actually stand out. Where you can really see the detail, the grain, the film-like 4K beauty. The rest look as good as a good Blu-ray. Maybe I have a short term memory, but I don't recall 1080p Blu-rays looking much worse than over half of the 4K UHD's. I figure, I most likely need a larger television from the distance I'm sitting. Would I be better off going to a 75 - 86" 4K HDR TV or look into a 4K Projector where you can easily go 120". I have not heard many people on these forums talk about 4K HDR Projectors, probably because they only became affordable in the last few months. For anyone that has experience, can you share your thoughts/opinions. Some people might sit close enough to see their 65" TV's but I think it is simply too small for my space. Thanks in advance for your comments and advice, and I did look through for a topic about this but did not see one preexisting.

[RodChester]

If you can control all the light, get a projector. If not then a TV is the way to go.

[ROSS.T.G.]

If you can’t see a difference on an OLED maybe sell it and get a cheaper 1080p projector. I went from a 5030ub that I calibrated monthly on 110” screen and the difference for me is staggering. I’ll take quality for size any day of the week but most people prefer a large screen. People thought I was crazy for selling my projector and screen but their opinion didn’t matter to me since I was the one watching it. Rod is right though, unless you have a completely dark room and go the extra step and paint your ceiling and walls black there is no point getting a projector.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by LettuceJUMP

Hello folks,
I've watched over 120+ different titles on my OLED 65" B6. And previously prior to jumping into my OLED, I owned a 75" 4K (Non HDR) TV. And to be perfectly frank, there are maybe 5-10 titles that actually stand out. Where you can really see the detail, the grain, the film-like 4K beauty. The rest look as good as a good Blu-ray. Maybe I have a short term memory, but I don't recall 1080p Blu-rays looking much worse than over half of the 4K UHD's. I figure, I most likely need a larger television from the distance I'm sitting. Would I be better off going to a 75 - 86" 4K HDR TV or look into a 4K Projector where you can easily go 120". I have not heard many people on these forums talk about 4K HDR Projectors, probably because they only became affordable in the last few months. For anyone that has experience, can you share your thoughts/opinions. Some people might sit close enough to see their 65" TV's but I think it is simply too small for my space. Thanks in advance for your comments and advice, and I did look through for a topic about this but did not see one preexisting.

Projectors are constrained to HDR10 only, no streaming app's, but just add a Roku Ultra for $99. Your likely thinking of the VPL-VW285ES 4K native projector for $4999. For larger displays Sony XBR75X900F 75-Inch is $3799, the XBR85900F 85-Inch is $5299. These 2 will have DV as soon as the next profile for players is ready, otherwise they stream DV content, and play HDR10 content now.

[Geoff D]

If HDR isn't making any appreciable difference to your viewing and it's just resolution you're after then going to a bigger screen won't really help any as most 4K discs come off of 2K masters anyway. Not that there can't still be appreciable differences, which I can clearly see when directly comparing UHDs to BDs on my own 65" TV (sitting about 6/7 feet away), but we all see things differently according to what our expectations are.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by LettuceJUMP

Hello folks,
I've watched over 120+ different titles on my OLED 65" B6. And previously prior to jumping into my OLED, I owned a 75" 4K (Non HDR) TV. And to be perfectly frank, there are maybe 5-10 titles that actually stand out. Where you can really see the detail, the grain, the film-like 4K beauty. The rest look as good as a good Blu-ray. Maybe I have a short term memory, but I don't recall 1080p Blu-rays looking much worse than over half of the 4K UHD's. I figure, I most likely need a larger television from the distance I'm sitting.

What distance are you from the screen? How about the room lighting you have?

[LettuceJUMP]

From tv on wall to edge of couch is 10 feet. I’m usually sitting back on the couch so lets say 11 feet.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by LettuceJUMP

From tv on wall to edge of couch is 10 feet. I’m usually sitting back on the couch so lets say 11 feet.

I think you really need to go look at whats being suggested. A BB magnolia design center would have lots of displays to sit down and watch to see what your actual preferences are for starters. We can talk about particular flat panels or projectors you need to scrutinize the image quality as well as deal with reality. Large displays are less complicated, last for years. Projectors use replaceable bulbs, check how they would be interfaced/mounted in your room. You can go either way.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by RodChester

If you can control all the light, get a projector. If not then a TV is the way to go.

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

Rod is right though, unless you have a completely dark room and go the extra step and paint your ceiling and walls black there is no point getting a projector.

You definitely need to be able to control all the light. Fortunately I have curtains which block all of the light that comes in. But honestly though I am not getting the most out of my projector because of the white walls and ceiling in my living room. It's something which I willingly accepted before making the jump to projection, but even so IMHO I think I am still getting an awesome picture despite of that.

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Large displays are less complicated, last for years. Projectors use replaceable bulbs, check how they would be interfaced/mounted in your room. You can go either way.

TVs are basically plug and play, projectors are a whole new ball game. Never mind that HDR with a projector will not look the same as on a TV.

[ROSS.T.G.]

You will still get a good picture from a good projector with white walls but painting the ceiling and walls black will make a substantial difference. I had mine done this time last year when I had my Epson 5030ub which had a great image with a white ceiling but once I painted the side walls and ceiling it was in a different league altogether. Painting living room black is obviously a different story. There is nothing better than watching a movie in a completely dark room whether you have a panel or projector. Even with my OLED I'm glad I painted half my room black. It really adds to the experience and my OLED completely disappears into the room.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

You will still get a good picture from a good projector with white walls but painting the ceiling and walls black will make a substantial difference. I had mine done this time last year when I had my Epson 5030ub which had a great image with a white ceiling but once I painted the side walls and ceiling it was in a different league altogether. Painting living room black is obviously a different story. There is nothing better than watching a movie in a completely dark room whether you have a panel or projector. Even with my OLED I'm glad I painted half my room black. It really adds to the experience and my OLED completely disappears into the room.

I think the picture on my 260ES (European equivalent of the 285ES) is still great but during bright scenes, the light that bounces back from the walls/ceiling and floor onto the screen makes the image appear a bit washed out. I know this could be improved upon a lot, same goes for black levels.

Unfortunately treating the entire (or even half) the living room with black velvet for example is not an option and neither is painting a part of the ceiling and walls black. As you probably can imagine, the missus was not having that! Matter of fact she didn't speak to me for almost two days after I got the 260ES and unpacked it. She thought it was way too big for something hanging on the ceiling of our living room.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I think the picture on my 260ES (European equivalent of the 285ES) is still great but during bright scenes, the light that bounces back from the walls/ceiling and floor onto the screen makes the image appear a bit washed out. I know this could be improved upon a lot, same goes for black levels.

Unfortunately treating the entire (or even half) the living room with black velvet for example is not an option and neither is painting a part of the ceiling and walls black. As you probably can imagine, the missus was not having that! Matter of fact she didn't speak to me for almost two days after I got the 260ES and unpacked it. She thought it was way too big for something hanging on the ceiling of our living room.

Yeah that was the issue I had, it looked washed out but still nice. When I had my house built with my ex a finishing basement was key. She hated every dime I spent and every second I spent fixing it up. She was not happy when I brought home the projector. Thankfully my wife loves our room as much as I do and lets me do whatever I want without complaining. She surprised me last year with new Atmos speakers for my birthday and last Christmas she bought me my 2nd SVS Sub. She even helped me lug back 2 TV's back to the store until I found the one I liked! She really liked the projector and didn't think it was a good idea to sell it in favour of a panel but she said its my thing and hobby and I should do what makes me happy. Now she loves the panel more than the projector. We don't have a tv on our main floor so all viewing is done in the basement and while we liked the projector she appreciates being able to watch tv with the lights on and curtains open. She also doesn't miss me constantly calibrating the projector. She's a keeper.

[DJR662]

Wifey coming through with Atmos speakers for her man's bday and a subwoofer for Xmas. You got a good thing going there, Ross, I hope you are aware of that!

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Wifey coming through with Atmos speakers for her man's bday and a subwoofer for Xmas. You got a good thing going there, Ross, I hope you are aware of that!

That I do. I put a big rock on her finger and paying for a wedding at one of the nicest hotels in Canada so she's happy.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

That I do. I put a big rock on her finger and paying for a wedding at one of the nicest hotels in Canada so she's happy.

Did it have hot and cold running poutine? Now that's classy.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Did it have hot and cold running poutine? Now that's classy.

lol, Well where I'm getting married is about an hour outside of Montreal. We are in the midst of planning the midnight snack and that is high on the possibility list. That or a smoke meat station... I want to put smoke meat on the poutine.

[Dirk504]

Go with the projector if you can. Projectors give you that true home theater experience. Although the TV will win with PQ, it's not really that much of a difference and the PJ is more immersive IMO. I own 3 4k TVs, but when it's movie night, it's all about the projector and mines is "only" 1080p. It's an even better experience on the 4k projectors I've demoed like the JVCs and Sonys.

It does help to have your room treated with dark colored walls/curtains. I'm lucky to have an all black dedicated home theater, but as others have stated, I wouldn't go painting the living room black. Also note that projectors require proper placement, filter cleaning, and replacing expensive bulbs. With that said, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Posting a pic of your room would also be helpful. There really isn't too much PJ discussion here, but you can learn a lot on the AVS forum.

Good luck with your decision!

[LettuceJUMP]

Really appreciate all of the advice. Going to start at best buy magnolia room and get the full feel. Since alot of people have said a darker room is better, I'm stick with a TV for living room, and build my dream theatre in the dark basement one day. Then I'm going to take a look at LG's Dolby Vision compatible 75" and 86" models, as that might make more since for my green walled living room. Wives don't like black walls, I don't know why!?

[KRW1]

4k UHD looks better on my 1080p projector than it does on my 50" 4k TV. I'm guessing size is a factor there but the TVs not for movies so it doesn't bother me.

I don't think you have to paint the walls black or have massive space for a projector, I've neither of those things and manage fine. I do have a black-out blind tho!

[HeavyHitter]

LJ,

I've been into home theater starting with DVD back in 1999 and I went front projection four years ago. It's an absolutely amazing experience and took my HT enjoyment to an entirely new level. I really cannot imagine being without it at this point. It really is like having my own movie theater at home and it's like getting away while watching a movie. When the lights are off, I pretty much only see the image. It's incredibly immersive. However, I only recommend people going FP if they have a dedicated room so it can be a black pit because that makes all of the difference with brightness and contrast. With light colored walls, light carpet, let alone windows, don't waste your time if you care about picture quality. A dedicated room can also help A LOT for the audio side of things too.

I'm using a well calibrated JVC RS440 which does quite well with UHD BD and is an amazing bang for the buck. HDR can be tricky with FPs because they don't have anywhere near the nits of a flat panel and FP was never a consideration for UHD BD, but properly done Arve curves do a nice job tone mapping but can take time to dial in. So if you want optimum HDR, obviously, you will need a (good) flat panel. I'm using HDR right from the player to the curve. I'm using two different curves depending on the disc/brightness and very recently just made another tweak which helped things further especially with specular highlights. This is the happiest I've been with HDR yet on it and I enjoy the image I am getting quite a bit. From a brightness perspective, I'm in the 30-ftl range with HDR. With SDR, I only like 16 ftL as anything brighter than that on a large screen is too much for me especially since my room is so dark. If I went with a higher gain screen, I could increase brightness dramatically HDR but I hate screen texture and the Stewart ST100 unity gain material I have is as smooth as it gets and not a sparklie to be seen. However, projectors are on the verge of very large lumens increases especially with laser (and hopefully consumer RGB laser is not too far off as that will blow the lid off brightness) so HDR will improve over time and so should tone mapping options.

I'm using a 9 foot wide scope screen sitting back around 9.5 feet back which is like watching 2:4 movies at 124" from a 16:9/flat panel perspective. 1:85 movies are around 95". I didn't go with a 16x9 screen for a few reasons: for one, a 1:85 movie at 124" from 9.5 feet back is WAY too big for my liking and is like sitting in the front row of a theater and too much of an IMAX effect. However, scope movies are just excellent and that is because height is a more limiting factor on the eyes than width for obvious reasons. Watching in scope also gives you a real perspective on aspect ratios and composition while viewing movies at the same height as has generally been recommended when possible for films. When you start watching on a CIH set-up, you really start to just feel and see how it makes a lot of sense. Finally, I also like my eyes at the same level of height for each movie from a comfort level with a big screen. Also, I don't do gaming, TV show watching (aside from classic 4:3 stuff occasionally) so it made even more sense for me.

So, if you can do it right with a good projector and good room, go for it all the way. If not and you want something large, well, maybe consider one of the better 75-85" flat panels in the meantime. One of these days I'll have to replace my living room plasma, but will likely stay more modestly in size (~55") in that case.

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