Watts per channel HELP

[PSB_Paradigm_HSU]

Can I run these:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ne-B-Bookshelf

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...magine-T-Tower

With This:

http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm

I am aware that underpowering a speaker is a big no no but what about over powering?

They are 4 ohm speakers, so if your answer is no I cannot use the emotiva due to too much power, then what are some other good 4 ohm amplifiers that put out about 150-200 watts per channel?

But lets say I find an amp that puts out 200 wpc to use with the PSB Imagine T (200 max), does that mean I CANT use it for the Imagine B (150 max)?

[prerich]

Originally Posted by PSB_Paradigm_HSU

Can I run these:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ne-B-Bookshelf

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...magine-T-Tower

With This:

http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm

I am aware that underpowering a speaker is a big no no but what about over powering?

They are 4 ohm speakers, so if your answer is no I cannot use the emotiva due to too much power, then what are some other good 4 ohm amplifiers that put out about 150-200 watts per channel?

But lets say I find an amp that puts out 200 wpc to use with the PSB Imagine T (200 max), does that mean I CANT use it for the Imagine B (150 max)?

You'll be just fine with that amp

[nezff]

yeah they should sing

[PSB_Paradigm_HSU]

So there is no harm in over powering? Others on the site seem to think otherwise. Is there some sort of rule of thumb to be safe like "dont go beyond 50 watts per channel over what your speakers are rated for?"

[nezff]

O wait, how many speakers will you be running off that UPA 7, they are 4 ohm also right?
4 ohm rating:
7 channels - 4 ohm = 185 watts per channel

6 channels - 4 ohm = 200 watts per channel

5 channels - 4 ohm = 225 watts per channel
If you are running 7 speakers, then it might be ok. your bookshelf speakers might be a little overpowered. I would not take the chance.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by PSB_Paradigm_HSU

Can I run these:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ne-B-Bookshelf

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...magine-T-Tower

With This:

http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm

I am aware that underpowering a speaker is a big no no but what about over powering?

They are 4 ohm speakers, so if your answer is no I cannot use the emotiva due to too much power, then what are some other good 4 ohm amplifiers that put out about 150-200 watts per channel?

But lets say I find an amp that puts out 200 wpc to use with the PSB Imagine T (200 max), does that mean I CANT use it for the Imagine B (150 max)?

IMO, but overpowering is bad also, can make your speakers distort which leads to bad stuff... RMS power is the track to stay on..

[PSB_Paradigm_HSU]

I would be running 5 speakers from the UPA-7 and their site lists:

For 4 ohm: 225 watts per channel

which equals 25 watts over for the towers, 75 over for the center and surrounds

[nezff]

I dont think I would take that chance of messing your speakers up bud.

[Big Daddy]

PSB speakers with Emotiva work perfectly. There is no such thing as overpowering. Just turn the volume to a reasonble level. Before you overpower your speakers, you will damage your hearing.

[gearyt]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

PSB speakers with Emotiva work perfectly. There is no such thing as overpowering. Just turn the volume to a reasonble level. Before you overpower your speakers, you will damage your hearing.

depends on the speakers... 100 watts into a 20 watt speaker ??

I think Big Daddy was referring to the Emotiva's above

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by gearyt

depends on the speakers... 100 watts into a 20 watt speaker ??

I think Big Daddy was referring to the Emotiva's above

Using a 100 amplifier with a 20 watt speaker does not damage or overpower the speaker. In fact, it may make it sound much better than it ever did. Of course, if you turn the volume to an unreasonable level, the sound will be distorted and you may blow the tweeters. That can happen with much bigger and more powerful speakers.

You don't need a 100 watt amplifier to do that. You can blow 20 watt speakers with a 20 watt amplifier/receiver. The most important thing is that the 20 watt amplifier will probably clip, distort and create a less desirable sound. The 100 watt amplifier will have a lot more headroom and will not stress out.

I currently have 7 very powerful amplifiers and I have had a ton of them in the past. I have used them on a variety of speakers (satellite, tower, bookshelf, 8 ohm, 6 ohm, 4ohm) with absolutely no problem. I would rather use a 100 watt amplifier on a 20 watt speaker than a 50 watt amplifier. The amplifier does not damage the speaker. The volume does.

[gearyt]

better explaination !!!

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by gearyt

better explaination !!!

I just had a Subway sandwich. That gave me more energy.

[gearyt]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I just had a Subway sandwich. That gave me more energy.

full tummie and no blown voice coils !!

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by PSB_Paradigm_HSU

[B]
I am aware that underpowering a speaker is a big no no but what about over powering?

Any speaker can burn. They commonly burn in three places, in this priority:

-The tweeter
-The midrange/woofer
-The crossover

Rarely do all three elements blow at the same time. It's usually the tweeter that smokes first.

I never use a speaker (by this, I mean the complete unit) that is rated at less than twice the rated output of the amplifier.

Never.

Common knowledge says, "It's the volume that kills, not the amp." This statement is true; it is also pretty much meaningless.

Volume varies by source. I've been watching television, at a comfortable volume, and been nearly blown out of my seat for a commercial I couldn't mute in time. (Usually cheap-sh*t commercials with guys running around in suits covered with question marks, or con artists doing carnival demonstrations of cleaning goop whilst wearing headsets).

It's sudden spikes in sound which will smoke your speaker investment. The old days of a nice, clean RIAA curve you could trust are completely gone. You can see huge variations in baseline volume, going between music sources, sound modes, etc.

Don't take chances with your money. With the Emotiva, you can push any power-hungry speaker out there, no problem. No point in being paranoid about, "This sounds fine, but what happens during the car crash scene?"

Going to 8 ohm speakers won't help - even with lowered output wattage ratings, it's still a powerful amp, and it's the "amps" in the amp that will raise hell with your speakers.

Be careful, you don't want to buy stuff twice.

[Big Daddy]

Blu-Dog,

I have to disagree with you. First of all, you should calibrate your system. As part of the calibration you need to make sure that different sources (CD, TV, DVD, Radio, and Blu-ray) have the same level. Most modern receivers allow for that. In addition, there are solutions for those annoying commercials.

I don’t believe that annoying commercials are going to cause your speakers to blow. If peak sound is a threat, maybe the main reason is because the volume is too high. Are you telling me that during peak sound, a 50 watt amplifier will not blow your speakers, but a 100 watt amplifier will? I hope not. During peak sound, if the 50 watt amplifier has enough reserve power, it should create the same level of sound as the more powerful amplifier. If it doesn’t have enough reserve power, it will clip, distort, and most likely damage your speakers. The 100 watt amplifier will not clip, and distort as easily as the 50 watt amplifier and less likely to damage your speakers.

In over 25 years of using amplifiers, I have never blown any tweeters with them. However, I did manage to blow a passive 12" subwoofer. That was partly my own fault for playing the music too loud and turning the bass sound way up because we had a pool party. I also damaged the speakers in one of those $100 stereo packages that I had purchased from K mart. I don’t believe the cause was the powerful 5 watt cheap receiver. My current Cinepro amplifier is a kick-ass amplifier. I have used it with small surround speakers with no problem.

I still stand by what I said earlier. The amp will not damage your speakers. I would rather buy a more powerful amplifier, regardless of the type of speakers I have.

[PSB_Paradigm_HSU]

I agree with you big daddy but my question is (out of curiosity), why does every speaker have a specified range? There SHOULD be a minimum watt rating specified but if you can go higher than what they say then why do they say it?

Another thing that confuses me: Pretend I am designing speakers for PSB, wouldnt I want the max to be the same for all speakers in the same model line? For example the IMAGINE T's max is 200, but then the rest (center, bookshelf and surrounds) has a max of 150. Theoretically you are not supposed to go over their specified max so in one case if you went with a 200 wpc amp you would be "overpowering" the others but if you went with a 150 wpc amp you would not be getting the most out of the T. What do they suppose you do? Get a 200 wpc for the T and a separate 150 wpc for the rest?

Thanks for everyones help by the way

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Blu-Dog,

I have to disagree with you. First of all, you should calibrate your system. As part of the calibration you need to make sure that different sources (CD, TV, DVD, Radio, and Blu-ray) have the same level.

Man, that's not the easiest thing to do. I understand what you're saying, but for me, it's almost impossible to set the levels for my phono stage to match that of my cable box, for example. I use Pioneer 84THX receivers; you can set just about anything with those rigs, but it simply isn't that simple, for the most part. But I get your point.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Most modern receivers allow for that. In addition, there are solutions for those annoying commercials.

DVR! Thank the gods...

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I don’t believe that annoying commercials are going to cause your speakers to blow. If peak sound is a threat, maybe the main reason is because the volume is too high.

There is no such thing as the volume being too high. I have proof.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Are you telling me that during peak sound, a 50 watt amplifier will not blow your speakers, but a 100 watt amplifier will?

I'm goofy, but not that goofy. First, we'd have to discuss if it was a fuzzy old Sherwood receiver, or a really clean Krell unit. Next, we'd give a sample of a really sharp sound spike.

Did you ever see 16 Blocks? There's a scene, early in the film, in a bar. There is a nice quiet moment, then a pistol shot. Sharp, hard, and very, very loud. I bet that 100 watt amp would blow the tweeter clean off a 50 watt speaker in that segment, and you'd be jumping off the couch with a red hot driver in your lap.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I hope not. During peak sound, if the 50 watt amplifier has enough reserve power, it should create the same level of sound as the more powerful amplifier. If it doesn’t have enough reserve power, it will clip, distort, and most likely damage your speakers. The 100 watt amplifier will not clip, and distort as easily as the 50 watt amplifier and less likely to damage your speakers.

No argument there. I think we'd agree that a clean 10 watt tube amp would drive as well as a cheap 100 watt amp, too.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

In over 25 years of using amplifiers, I have never blown any tweeters with them.

LUCKY BAST (oops, he's a moderator)

You got this week's lottery numbers?

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

However, I did manage to blow a passive 12" subwoofer.

Well, at least he's human.

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

That was partly my own fault for playing the music too loud and turning the bass sound way up because we had a pool party. I also damaged the speakers in one of those $100 stereo packages that I had purchased from K mart. I don’t believe the cause was the powerful 5 watt cheap receiver. My current Cinepro amplifier is a kick-ass amplifier. I have used it with small surround speakers with no problem.

I still stand by what I said earlier. The amp will not damage your speakers. I would rather buy a more powerful amplifier, regardless of the type of speakers I have.

Agreed on the choice of amp, but I am risk averse when it comes to engineering. Getting a more robust set of speakers won't break the bank; why risk it for a one-time purchase? My motto: spread the joy, get more drivers to absorb an unexpected load. You get cleaner sound, at lower volume, as an unexpected side benefit, too.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by PSB_Paradigm_HSU

I agree with you big daddy but my question is (out of curiosity), why does every speaker have a specified range? There SHOULD be a minimum watt rating specified but if you can go higher than what they say then why do they say it?

The minimum power rating (some manufacturers won't give one) is usually to indicate when the crossovers become efficient. The rolloff between frequencies is determined by the crossover, and this component - powered by the amplifier - won't start dividing frequencies efficiently until a certain amperage is provided. For simplicity, it's described in wattage, since that's how amplifiers are rated.

Below that power rating, frequencies aren't split, and the speakers won't deliver worth a hoot.

Originally Posted by PSB_Paradigm_HSU

Another thing that confuses me: Pretend I am designing speakers for PSB, wouldnt I want the max to be the same for all speakers in the same model line? For example the IMAGINE T's max is 200, but then the rest (center, bookshelf and surrounds) has a max of 150. Theoretically you are not supposed to go over their specified max so in one case if you went with a 200 wpc amp you would be "overpowering" the others but if you went with a 150 wpc amp you would not be getting the most out of the T. What do they suppose you do? Get a 200 wpc for the T and a separate 150 wpc for the rest?

Thanks for everyones help by the way

Actually, if the entire system is running off a single amplifier, the heaviest load is pulling down the most power. This is why Big Daddy is saying to calibrate the system, and not crank it to overmax levels. If you were playing in 2CH stereo, you could juice it a bit to play to the larger speakers; you don't want to do that in 5CH mode, as the amp is working a lot harder, and will send the same power to everybody - supplying the demand of the larger units, too - and then slam that same current level to the surrounds.

Most folks don't push their systems that hard. Lots of other things come into play, as well - including the efficiency of the speakers. For peace of mind, I give a huge margin of safety for my speakers, but I've still had incidents where surges do crazy things and smoke components.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by PSB_Paradigm_HSU

I agree with you big daddy but my question is (out of curiosity), why does every speaker have a specified range? There SHOULD be a minimum watt rating specified but if you can go higher than what they say then why do they say it?

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but you seem to be under the impression that a 100W amp is continually pushing 100W (per channel). This is not the case. A 100W amp is capable of pushing 100W continually, but in practice this usually doesn't happen. The wattage pushed by the amp fluctuates and depends on a number of variables, including the volume. As a general rule, the louder you play, the more wattage pushed by the amp.

Also when you look at the power handling rating for your speakers, there's often a rating given for RMS (continual power) and peak (spikes in power). The RMS rating is the power level the speaker can handle constantly. The peak rating is the power level the speaker can handle for very brief moments. A perfect example of a peak power instance is the gunshot scene Blu-Dog mentioned above. Often the speaker will be able to handle that sudden, powerful moment with no problem, but if you tried running that same speaker at that same constant volume, then you would run into trouble.

This is also why you usually won't have any problems running speakers with amps with much higher power ratings than the speakers. A 100W amp, for example, driving a 20W speaker works because unless you turn the volume up to levels that could make your ears bleed, the amp isn't actually pushing the full 100W. In this situation you should get cleaner sound because the amp isn't working so hard. Think of it like a car. You have a Geo Metro and a Porsche. Both can take you down the highway doing 80 miles per hour, but in the Geo the ride will be rough, the car won't handle well, and it will wear out sooner than the Porsche because you're pushing it so close to its limit. The Porsche on the other hand, will ride smoothly, handle well, and will last a long, long time because it's under an easy workload even though it's going the same speed. This is because the Porsche has a lot of headroom, meaning it's capable of much, much more than what you're actually requiring from it.