Amp Help!!!

[minimo]

Hello everyone. I have a couple of questions as I am looking to buy a 2 channel Amp for my front speakers in the next couple of months.

First of, If I do get an amp my receiver for these two channels will only be used as a pre-amp correct?

Is there a way to combine the power coming out of the receiver and the power coming out of the amp?

The reason I am asking all this is because I am not providing enough power to my fronts, and want to get the most out of them.

My front speakers can hold up to 500 watts http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/rti12/

I have been looking at emotiva amps but they throw around 200 watts, which is not a significant upgrade from what my receiver can throw out.

All help is greatly appreciated and recommendations are very welcomed

Thank you in advance!!!

[crackinhedz]

just curious, why only two channel?

why not get a 7.1 channel, and just use the two speakers you have. Then down the road, you can always add more.

[CasualKiller]

Not sure how you get that they are not receiving enough power, those are 90db efficiency.

If it was me I would just bi-amp them and put the money elsewhere.

Edit> This is not to say that an additional amp would not increase sound quality, but you are definitely not underpowering them.

I could show you a 60 watt amp that would drive those better than your Onkyo ever could.

http://www.naim-audio.com/products/naitxs.html

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by minimo

Hello everyone. I have a couple of questions as I am looking to buy a 2 channel Amp for my front speakers in the next couple of months.

First of, If I do get an amp my receiver for these two channels will only be used as a pre-amp correct?

Correct. Of course, you could still use the receiver to power two additional front speakers if desired.

Originally Posted by minimo

Is there a way to combine the power coming out of the receiver and the power coming out of the amp?

Yes, but I wouldn't recommend it. This would "bi-amp" your speakers, something that does have advantages, but wouldn't be necessary if you had sufficient power for your front speakers from the new amp.

In addition, your current receiver is splitting power to each speaker. Offloading the need to power your front speakers supplies an additional reserve for your other speakers, a net advantage overall. You lose this if you are using your receiver on the fronts, and the power imbalance from the two sources isn't a great idea - the power levels should be the same in a bi-amped schema for optimum results.

Originally Posted by minimo

The reason I am asking all this is because I am not providing enough power to my fronts, and want to get the most out of them.

My front speakers can hold up to 500 watts http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/rti12/

I have been looking at emotiva amps but they throw around 200 watts, which is not a significant upgrade from what my receiver can throw out.

With the rti12, your two issues are minimum power (50 watts just to fire them up) and overhead (how much juice it takes for reserve power, for spikes). Being 8ohm speakers, they are not that efficient.

However, the Emotiva has a very fat reserve, with a huge toroidal amp that has great capacitance. They can drive the rti12 without a problem. They'll meet the 50 watt minimum with no effort - and unlike your receiver, if you only hook up the two main fronts to it, the rest of the power will ramp up for spikes with no problem.

If you think you need a huge reserve for very high sustained volume, you may need to go to a beefier amp more like what musicians use. QSC and Crown have these; I prefer QSC's RMX series for their extremely low total harmonic distortion (THD) level (generally .1%). Emotiva is about ten times lower, per spec; but the .1% number is at nominal power, and they are very, very clean.

The downside is that they have an internal fan, that while fairly quiet, is definitely audible. If you enclose the amp, or place it in another area, you have a terrific solution. Check them out at

http://www.qsc.com/products/amps/rmx/rmx.htm

I use the RMX 2450 to drive Sonus Faber Domus units, which are 4ohm, but notorious power hogs. At 450 watts, the RMX 2450 doesn't even breathe hard driving these monsters.

Crackinhedz raises a good point: why not get the Emotiva 7 channel for growth? It's dead silent, and specs aside, it will push those rti12's around like feathers in a windstorm. At a good price, too.

Don't worry about bi-amping, you really don't need it for the rti12's. You can always play around with it, but it's probably not necessary.

Hope these options help.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

Not sure how you get that they are not receiving enough power, those are 90db efficiency.

It still takes 50 watts to wake up the crossover in these bad boys - and compared to Klipsch (100db sensitivity on some units), they're fairly inefficient. You really have to take a stick to them to get them moving. After that, they're not too bad.

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

If it was me I would just bi-amp them and put the money elsewhere.

Edit> This is not to say that an additional amp would not increase sound quality, but you are definitely not underpowering them.

True, unless the rest of the speakers are also hauling down power - in which case, he's not underpowering them, but he might be borderlining them. As a 2ch system, I agree, he's fine.

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

I could show you a 60 watt amp that would drive those better than your Onkyo ever could.

http://www.naim-audio.com/products/naitxs.html

Come on, man, 'fess up. The NAIM units are so underrated it's not even funny. They'll handle spikes at three time rated power, I bet, and clean clean clean. Pricey, but you get what you pay for...

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by minimo

Hello everyone. I have a couple of questions as I am looking to buy a 2 channel Amp for my front speakers in the next couple of months.

First of, If I do get an amp my receiver for these two channels will only be used as a pre-amp correct?

Is there a way to combine the power coming out of the receiver and the power coming out of the amp?

The reason I am asking all this is because I am not providing enough power to my fronts, and want to get the most out of them.

My front speakers can hold up to 500 watts http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/rti12/

I have been looking at emotiva amps but they throw around 200 watts, which is not a significant upgrade from what my receiver can throw out.

All help is greatly appreciated and recommendations are very welcomed

Thank you in advance!!!

200 watts from an external amp is much more powerful and better sounding than similar watts from your receiver. and it will sound quite a bit better. Better bass, better mids, and usually better highs and sound stage.

a receiver's power supply has to supply power to the entire receiver, which is the amp's, the pre amp, the tuner, etc. a stand alone amp has only one thing to power... the amp. So it sounds better. Those 200 watts will give you more headroom range than your receiver could. watts aren't everything to be concerned about.. how much "current" an amp can pull to supply enough power to your speaker is more important than watts.. I know it sounds ass backwards, but trust me you want a high current amp that can deliver enough current when needed.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

just curious, why only two channel?

why not get a 7.1 channel, and just use the two speakers you have. Then down the road, you can always add more.

For myself, I use my system for both 2 channel stereo and 5.1 music and Home Theater (ultimately 7.1). Prior to my present amp and Pre/Pro set-up, I used my Krell KAV 250/a 3 channel amp for my fronts L & R and center and my Accurus A-250 for the rears.

I was never happy always needing to use my 3 channel amp just for stereo. Now, I have 2 sets of Aragon Palladium 1K monoblock amps (1 set in storage for when I move and finally make the 7.1 system) which I use for the front L & R channels and use the Krell 3 channel amp for the center and the rear speakers. This gives me probably better sound and more power for my front channel speakers, saves the usage of the 3 channel amp when listening in stereo and reduces the electricity consumption of using 3 channels of power with 2 (though my monoblock amps probably use more wattage). This would be an advantage for anyone using their system as both 2 channel and also for multichannel music and Home Theater. Though this option may be more expensive ultimately and take up more space, it may sound better for 2 channel music, and it can save on the weight and size of a single amp and electric bill. A good 2 channel amp could be used in the place of my monoblock amps.

Rich

[crackinhedz]

I think I was reading his post incorrectly. (or too fast)

...I thought he only had two speakers.

Then I finally read his sig.

[minimo]

Wow, that is a lot of information, thank you so much. I need to become a lot more knowledgeable on the technical stuff.

The reason I wanted to get a 2 channel amp is because I am happy with the way that all the other speakers are sounding.

This was the amp that I was initially looking at

http://emotiva.com/rpa2.shtm

The only bad thing about it that I can see is that it is 60lb wich would mean that I cant place it on the audio pier. But this is more or less what I wanted.

Also took a quick look at this one from QSC
http://www.music123.com/QSC-RMX-1850...ource=ZLQSWXX1

It has enough power, is less heavy, and in my price range.

Thanks everyone for their responses. Keep it coming!!!!

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by minimo

Wow, that is a lot of information, thank you so much. I need to become a lot more knowledgeable on the technical stuff.

The reason I wanted to get a 2 channel amp is because I am happy with the way that all the other speakers are sounding.

This was the amp that I was initially looking at

http://emotiva.com/rpa2.shtm

The only bad thing about it that I can see is that it is 60lb wich would mean that I cant place it on the audio pier. But this is more or less what I wanted.

Also took a quick look at this one from QSC
http://www.music123.com/QSC-RMX-1850...ource=ZLQSWXX1

It has enough power, is less heavy, and in my price range.

Thanks everyone for their responses. Keep it coming!!!!

I use the QSC 1450 and QSC 2450, and believe me, they're not lightweights. They're also rack mount types, so you have to put some feet on the bottom or rest them on something.

They are extremely powerful, and very, very clean. I don't think you need the 1850 - it's designed for 2ohm loads, it's probably overkill for full range speakers. The 2450 would be perfect, and even the 1450 would handle this chore, very cleanly. I'm a big fan of their gear, with the very obvious reservation: you can hear the exhaust fan. It's not super-loud, but you can hear it when things get quiet.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

I think I was reading his post incorrectly. (or too fast)

...I thought he only had two speakers.

Then I finally read his sig.

Your advice still holds - the Emotiva splits up power based on what's hanging off of it, and he's only dealing with the fronts.

Are you sure you didn't read it right the first time?

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by minimo

http://emotiva.com/rpa2.shtm

The only bad thing about it that I can see is that it is 60lb wich would mean that I cant place it on the audio pier. But this is more or less what I wanted.

Wy cant you put that on A pier ! MY EMO is 75 lb's And it's on my pier .

[minimo]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I use the QSC 1450 and QSC 2450, and believe me, they're not lightweights. They're also rack mount types, so you have to put some feet on the bottom or rest them on something.

They are extremely powerful, and very, very clean. I don't think you need the 1850 - it's designed for 2ohm loads, it's probably overkill for full range speakers. The 2450 would be perfect, and even the 1450 would handle this chore, very cleanly. I'm a big fan of their gear, with the very obvious reservation: you can hear the exhaust fan. It's not super-loud, but you can hear it when things get quiet.

Doesn't the 2450 give 500w at 8 ohms and the 1850 360w at 8 ohms?

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Are you sure you didn't read it right the first time?

I don' even know that I read it right the second time?

[sarge1976]

I recently bought the Onkyo M-282 Amplifier to go along with my Onkyo 805 to give my fronts more power and I ran into alot of problems , when i hooked the amp to the front preouts on my 805, the reciever would not decode 5.1 or 7.1,so I figured I could use it to Bi-amp the fronts instead,well that didnt work because the 805 would not decode 7.1 now,so after all the aggravation I sent it back and got a new sub ,

[Gremal]

Minimo, I think you are too focused on the specs of your speaker ratings. I believe Watts should be about quality, not quantity (unless your speakers are very insensitive--yours are plenty efficient). If you find the Emotiva delivers the best sound, by all means go with those. But it is slightly nuts to think that 200 W is not enough amplification for your speakers unless you are thinking of installing them in an amphitheater. I seriously doubt you will pull more than 10 wpc on any amp you buy, even at peak levels, and usually no more than 3-5 W for sustained, loud home theater or music tracks.

So often we get caught up in spec's and getting what the clerk at the audio shop says we need, rather than what our ears tell us is right.

[Danger Boy]

Originally Posted by sarge1976

I recently bought the Onkyo M-282 Amplifier to go along with my Onkyo 805 to give my fronts more power and I ran into alot of problems , when i hooked the amp to the front preouts on my 805, the reciever would not decode 5.1 or 7.1,so I figured I could use it to Bi-amp the fronts instead,well that didnt work because the 805 would not decode 7.1 now,so after all the aggravation I sent it back and got a new sub ,

your problem sounds very odd. just by hooking up an external amp your receiver no longer works in 5.1 or 7.1??? there must be more to this story i would assume. adding external amps should have nothing to do with how the receiver decodes audio.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Gremal

Minimo, I think you are too focused on the specs of your speaker ratings. I believe Watts should be about quality, not quantity (unless your speakers are very insensitive--yours are plenty efficient). If you find the Emotiva delivers the best sound, by all means go with those. But it is slightly nuts to think that 200 W is not enough amplification for your speakers unless you are thinking of installing them in an amphitheater. I seriously doubt you will pull more than 10 wpc on any amp you buy, even at peak levels, and usually no more than 3-5 W for sustained, loud home theater or music tracks.

So often we get caught up in spec's and getting what the clerk at the audio shop says we need, rather than what our ears tell us is right.

+1 ! I would listen to Gremal ! HE DOES KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT !!
& I agree with him !

[sarge1976]

I was told by the guy from Vanns.com that my 805 was turned into a preamp once I hooked up the M-282 amp to my Front preouts on the 805,I even tried using the amp to run just my rear surrounds ,it still wouldn't decode properly.I finally read the fine print in the instruction manual for the 805 and it will not let you use an amp on just 2 channels,I would have to have several amps for it to decode properly,also the guy from Vanns said that the M-282 amp is for adding a second set of speakers in a different room ,I wish I would of known that before I asked my wife to get me it as a Xmas gift ,so anyway it took about 3 weeks before I got a refund

[SlaughterX]

Is this the same case with the 806?