SD on Blu?

[Reddkryten]

Hello,

I was just wondering if there is anyway to tell if a German disc is SD on Blu-ray.

In the UK, any disc which is an uprez will state it on the back. I’ve seen a lot of obscure TV shows released in Germany which are not available elsewhere, some in HD, but others just SD.

Is there anyway of identifying them before buying? Or will I only know once I put the disc in to play?

[TheHutt]

Do you mean real SD content on BluRay (like the Turbine "SD on BluRay" series), or BluRays with shows originally produced in SD and scaled up to 1080 (like Doctor Who 1-4)?

[Reddkryten]

Either I suppose.

[turbine]

Well... I mean... really... if you're buying one of our "SD on Blu-ray(tm)" products - guess what... it's SD content on a Blu-ray. So because this is SDonBD you're getting this for an awesome price and it'll tell you on the packaging and usually product descriptions online it's "the same great show in DVD quality on just two discs" so that is really hard to miss as "SD on Blu-ray(tm)" is the selling point here.

But of course there are always that bad guys that'll up-rez or otherwise fake HD. Can't do much about this, so stick with the renowed publishers.

[Reddkryten]

Hello,

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am not criticising the practice and it is not aimed at your company (the one I am looking at currently is from Koch Media).

While native HD or a remaster is preferable, I work in the film industry so I understand what an undertaking that can be and how it is not always possible.

I’m just asking if there is any easy way to spot an uprez or DVD port before buying so I can raise or lower my expectations.

The show I’m looking at is from the early 2000s so it would have aired in SD, however as it was around that transition time, they may have edited in HD.

[turbine]

Why not ask Koch? You could as well let us know which show you're referring to.

[Reddkryten]

I emailed Koch last night. The show is “The Guardian”.

However, I don’t mean to sound rude, but I think you’re missing the point. I am asking if there is an easy way to quickly spot this?

If I want to know if a film has french subtitles, I just look on the back of the case and it will be printed on there. In the UK, if I want to check if a disc is from an SD source, it will also be stated there.
From the German discs I have looked at, I can’t see an easy way to spot that. I am trying to learn German, so maybe it is stated somewhere but I don’t understand the language enough to notice it.

That’s why I didn’t say which series I was talking about, because this month I’ll buy The Guardian, but next month I’ll buy something else.

[TheHutt]

Originally Posted by Reddkryten

Either I suppose.

Because that's two entirely different concepts here.

[Reddkryten]

Are they?

I would view SD content and SD content uprezed to HD as more or less the same thing. Fundamentally, the software can’t create detail where it doesn’t exist. The uprezed version may be more polished, but it isn’t going to be massivly different from the SD.

The other is a HD source.

[Reddkryten]

That’s a fair point. I’m in PAL land so that didn’t occur to me.

I’m still thinking in terms of picture quality and how the image can only be as good as the weakest link in the chain.

[TheHutt]

Originally Posted by Reddkryten

Are they?

Most definitely.

SD on BluRay is used for better usage of disk space (utilizing a BluRay's 50 GB vs a DVD's 9 GBs).

Whereas upscaled shows rather profits from a better compression (see Doctor Who 1-4) or a better sound options (DTS-HDMA) than the DVD version.

[mep]

Originally Posted by Reddkryten

Hello,

I was just wondering if there is anyway to tell if a German disc is SD on Blu-ray.

In the UK, any disc which is an uprez will state it on the back. I’ve seen a lot of obscure TV shows released in Germany which are not available elsewhere, some in HD, but others just SD.

Is there anyway of identifying them before buying? Or will I only know once I put the disc in to play?

SD on BD is normally prominently featured on the top of the front cover, as on all of Turbines relevant releases for example (btw they are indeed DVD quality and therefor you can safely pick those up, instead of the former DVD releases. I did so for some older shows, where the former DVD Sets went already oop and became quite pricey. I´m not the biggest fan of SDonBD releases, but the Turbine ones are quite good. I was a little burned with the first SDonBD Box I´ve ever bought ´Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Gesamtedition [Blu-ray] [Limited Edition]´ from Ledick Filmhandel GmbH. Almost unwatchable! Digital Artefacts all over the place during each movement of the camera! Stay away from that one and go for the original DVD set instead, which has none of these issues).

The Guardian is not an SDonBD set, for sure; but if it´s upscaled in one way or another I cannot tell. I have quite many Koch Media BD releases in my collection and they are doing normally a good job with their releases and transfers. They are also not one of those shady companies, so I would give it a shot, if I where you...

[GreatGreg]

Why not just look at the back of the case and see if it is 1080p or not?

[mep]

Originally Posted by GreatGreg

Why not just look at the back of the case and see if it is 1080p or not?

He is asking how he can be sure ordering online, so I assume he is not living locally. Those releases are also quite niche titles. Often you just don´t find them in stores, unless you actually order them. And even if it states 1080p it can be upscaled from a minor source material in theory. You gotta have a little faith I quess...

[turbine]

Hence the creation of the brand "SD on Blu-ray". The Turtles isn't a "SD on Blu-ray" release. Whenever you see "SD on Blu-ray" on a product, it's from Turbine & friends.

Technically, there's no way to see if something is an upscale and given the large number of UHD releases that aren't true 4K transfers, but upscales, my understanding is that as long as the fine print on the back resembles what's on the disc, that's legally ok. Of course it's bad style to up-rez SD to HD without any warning, but then again just stick with well-known publishers or check here.

[TheHutt]

Just checked out my Doctor Who (1 and 2) steelbooks. There is no mention of it being an upscale whatsoever on the cover. I figure they thought "as long as the episodes' titles are in HD, the upscale warning is unjustified". Or, "it won't sell as well if we tell the truth".

Strangely enough, even "Life on Mars" (which was shot on 16mm film) was deemed not HD-worthy by the BBC. And therefore, they upscaled the SD TV master for the BluRay instead.

But I am digressing. Actually, I quite like the SD on BluRay from Turbine. For TV shows, it's really a nice way of getting many hours of material without having to change discs. I have an Oliver Kalkofe (German comedian) DVD boxset consisting of 5 digipaks with 4 DVDs each. And a BluRay with all the same content just on 3 BluRays altogether. Much more handy to watch.

[Deciazulado]

Are the German Doctor Who 1-4 upscales in 1080i60 or 1080i50 ?

[SillyG]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Are the German Doctor Who 1-4 upscales in 1080i60 or 1080i50 ?

They should be 1080i50 as 25p/50i is standard for PAL regions such as Europe, and I can't imagine why the BBC would release a botched NTSC version of PAL content to a PAL customer base.

Unless BBC have a habit of releasing NTSC transfers in Germany, I can't imagine why there would be any doubt.

[Deciazulado]

Well my Spanish Sherlock Bride and German Who Specials BDs are in 1080i50 and the German Animated Who is listed as 50i too, but I think the UK ones have been 24p slowed or 60i converted, and I believe is the same for the UK Series 1-4, so I was wondering about the German Series 1-4.

The German listings on our database currently say 1080p for Who series 1 and 2, and 1080i (which in our database means 1080i60) Upconverted for series 3 and 4. Maybe because there's no specific 1080/50i Unconverted spec? (So we should create one)

The German Specials listing says 1080/50i because I've personally confirmed and added it, same as with the Spanish Sherlock Abominable Bride; while the German and UK Sherlock Brides say 1080p


UPDATE: These 4 are 1080p24. Thanks to TheHutt.
Listings updated
1080p


93m 1080p

89m 1080 50i

1080 50i

1080 50i included in: rest is 1080p

1080 50i

[SillyG]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Well my Spanish Sherlock Bride and German Who Specials BDs are in 1080i50 and the German Animated Who is listed as 50i too, but I think the UK ones have been 24p slowed or 60i converted, and I believe is the same for the UK Series 1-4, so I was wondering about the German Series 1-4.

The German listings on our database currently say 1080p for Who series 1 and 2, and 1080i (which in our database means 1080i60) Upconverted for series 3 and 4. Maybe because there's no specific 1080/50i Unconverted spec? (So we should create one)

The German Specials listing says 1080/50i because I've personally confirmed and added it, same as with the Spanish Sherlock Abominable Bride; while the German and UK Sherlock Brides say 1080p

I can't imagine why a UK television production would ever be released in converted 1080/60i in PAL territories. I would expect that they would be released as either 1080/50i or 1080/24p slowed unless there are precedents to warrant suspicion.