ATSC 3.0 breaking news

[Robert Zohn]

I just finished my full two days at NAB's NY show at the Jacob Javits Convention Center. It was fun connecting and catching up with my many friends as I spent 25+ years at a TV Broadcast System Engineer before starting Value Electronics in 1998.

Other than visiting the exhibitors and learning about all of the new products and technologies I attending many of the educational seminars. The three most important seminars that I want to discuss are:

Day one, Wednesday, October 17, 2019

The State of UHD and HDR: Five Things Everyone Should Know, by Thomas Bause Mason, SMPTE, Director of Standards Development.

Tom discussed all of the SMPTE and many of the ITU standards for UHD/HDR and all of its related technology advancements. Near the end of his presentation Tom said the broadcasters will be sending 1080 resolution and some content with some sort of HDR, but only 8bit and unlikely any WCG or EOTF.

So at the end of his presentation I spoke privately with Tom and said I believe we'll see UHD/HDR w/10bit and P3. Tom replied, no 4K HDR, as the broadcasters do not have the bandwidth on the OTA carrier or IP.

Thoroughly enjoyed my time with Tom, it was a privilege to attend his class and then to be one on one with him, but as the conversation came to a close I left confused as to how and why can we have a standard that can't be delivered so I was deeply disappointed. ATSC 3.0 was what I was waiting for so we can have all of the beautiful and creative nighttime programming in glorious UHD/HDR and all that comes with the 10bit, WCG and EOTF.

Day two, Thursday, October 18, 2018

ATSC 3.0 Update - What, Where and Especially WHEN?

Great session discussing all of the many new features and abilities of ATSC 3.0, e.g. user feed back (2-way communications), second screen and of course, UHD/HDR. Near the end of the presentation, Pearl TV Managing Director, Anne Schelle announced that broadcasters will send 1080 SDR and sometimes, if the 1080 source permits we'll also include some kind of HDR (not sure if that's HLG or HDR10). This confirmed what I learned at yesterday's SMPTE session.

That's when my hand went up to comment and you can read about our interaction on the next post.

Accelerating to the Road of ATSC 3.0

Much of the same from the earlier ATSC 3.0 session. I loved Prabu David, Dean, College of Communication Arts and Sciences Michigan State University. Prabu spoke about his use of ATSC 3.0 in the Beta testing where the PBS station had a kids program on bullying and used ATSC 3.)'s sub carrier to deliver a second scree to the parents cell phone or tablet informing them that the kids were watching and giving parent tips on how to discuss this subject with children and more. The 2-way communications is cool too and has some creative potential uses. But UHD w/PQ HDR is what I'm after and the broadcasters have most of the Sports and some very good night time series that would attract a very nice additional market of story telling and sports lovers.

Near the end of the speakers talk they confirmed the use of 1080 SDR content over ATSC 3.0 and saying the reason is that the FCC will not sell the broadcasters any more bandwidth. They also said that in many regions the O&O stations and Affiliates got together and formed an alliance to support each-other's need for more bandwidth when they had a worthy or important program to broadcast so one at a time they can schedule ATSC 3.0.

I love the idea for competitors in the same market banding together to deliver ATSC 3.0 on an as needed basis. This does not serve the long term problem of not enough bandwidth, but it's a creative and very admirable solution to a very serious problem. It also does not serve to help with the lack of UHD/HDR 10bit content that we were all so keenly looking forward to.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but wanted to let everyone know and ask for support from all who read this and care by writing to your local broadcasters telling them we want UHD/HDR 10 bit content from them and was hoping ATSC 3.0 had held the promise of better picture and audio performance that our 4K TVs and multi channel audio systems already support.

It's interesting that in South Korea they employed ATSC 3.0 to the public and the only feature they are using is 4K HDR, not second screen or 2-way feedback.

[Robert Zohn]

Here's an article from the Consumer Electronics Daily. The reporter, Paul Gluckman was in the audience and recorded the entire session.

ATSC 3.0 Won’t Fly Without 4K HDR Out of the Gate, Says AV Specialty Retailer

TOP NEWS|19 Oct 2018|Ref: 1810180049
An outspoken metropolitan New York specialty AV retailer confronted Pearl TV Managing Director Anne Schelle during Q&A of an NAB Show New York ATSC 3.0 workshop Thursday by opining that the standard won’t fly with consumers unless broadcasters use it to beam live sports and other content in Ultra HD. “What people want from the owned and operated network stations is 4K HDR, and when you deliver that, it will be instantly successful to the many millions and millions of people who have sets waiting,” said Robert Zohn, president of Value Electronics in Scarsdale, New York.

Zohn told Schelle he was distressed to hear a SMPTE standards official predict at a show workshop Wednesday that broadcasters likely will use 3.0 to beam 1080p pictures with HDR because bandwidth constraints will prevent many of them from transmitting in 4K. Schelle, who frequently describes herself as a strong advocate of 4K HDR based on Pearl consumer research findings in the Phoenix model market (see 1810170047), responded that “it will depend on the content and the time of day” whether broadcasters transmit 3.0 pictures in 4K or 1080p. Stations can “multiplex up and down,” she said. Full HD with HDR “can actually be upconverted in these sets to 4K,” she said.

The Phoenix model market uses 3.0 to beam 1080p pictures with HDR to the 75-80 prototype receivers available there, said Schelle. HDR "makes that picture sparkle like nothing I’ve seen before,” she said. “We’re running two great pieces of content from NBC over the air.” HDR “knocks your socks off,” she said. That didn’t placate Zohn, who told Schelle: “We want native 4K HDR.” She responded, “I hear you,” and said he's “preaching to the choir.” Broadcasters long have talked about using 3.0 as the gateway for delivering 1080p pictures with HDR (see 1705160044). Sinclair has gone so far to say that better pictures aren't the “ultimate best use” of 3.0 (see 1802280016).

In 3.0, “now we have a new TV system that really gives you a reason to want to buy a premium television,” Zohn told us. That Amazon Prime Video and Netflix are “delivering a superior product” is “partly” why those services are “taking away the business from the broadcasters,” because the terrestrial picture “doesn’t look as good,” he said. Amazon and Netflix have “4K HDR, they have Dolby Atmos, Dolby Vision. They really are on top of picture quality.”

Zohn is the originator of the annual TV shootout competition (see 1707130061). Value Electronics sells the premium tier of LG, Samsung and Sony TVs, the three brands most closely aligned with 3.0 support. Value’s premium TV business is "very strong," said Zohn.

The consumer TV market "is so big right now," said Zohn. "Every household has a nice 4K TV. Let's give them a gorgeous picture." Zohn thinks retailers like him "easily" can sell 3.0 as a premium feature, he said. "We need set-top boxes that are ATSC 3.0, so that they'll work to convert the TVs that are out there. There are millions of them, so we need set-top boxes, and I have been proactive in speaking with likely manufacturers on that, and I will continue to push them, because we need that product ready the day that it opens up in each market and starts to launch. They can't be sleeping. They've got to be ready right now."

Consumers will be the “arbiter” of 3.0's ultimate fate, said Schelle. “They want beautiful pictures, they want choice, they want it to be free, and they love the experiences of personalization that they’re getting today in the OTT environments.” ATSC 3.0 can layer “the antiquated platform we have today” with those new features, she said.

Pearl will establish a “consumer lab” in Phoenix next week, said Schelle. “We’ll be bringing those consumers into the lab to really focus on and test on the features and functions of ATSC 3.0 and how they resonate with different consumer groups.” Schelle thinks there’s already “high interest," she said. The 2,000-page 3.0 standard is “a Swiss army knife of features and functions and capabilities,” she said. “It’s a tremendously powerful platform that not only can enable us to enhance our TV service, but it can allow us to do more with our spectrum and offer more services.” Phoenix is a “28 percent over-the-air market, so it’s an interesting market to be testing in,” she said.

NAB Show New York Notebook

SpectrumCo, the consortium that includes Nexstar and Sinclair, is in the process of choosing its 3.0 test markets for 2019, said President John Hane. “It will happen more in 2020,” he said. “We’ll have a lot of depth and the whole country covered very, very well by 2021.” Hane thinks 3.0's success “will come when investors from outside of the traditional broadcast investors take an interest,” he said. He wants to sway investors on 3.0 “who are focused more on cloud and wireless,” he said. “If I can give them a credible story, and get them interested, then they’re willing to place a bet while riding the cash flow.”

ATSC 3.0 will need “advocates” to sell the service broadly through word-of-mouth consumer adoption, said Jason Patton, Verance senior vice president-sales and marketing. The industry needs “early adopter consumers who love everything we bring to the table,” he said. “Those features need to be killer apps” combined with “the power of Netflix-type functionality,” he said. “We need to build a platform that allows sort of an open capability. That’s what this standard does.”

written by Paul Gluckman

Copyright© 2018 by Warren Communications News, Inc. Reprinted by written permission.

[Robert Zohn]

Reserved

[Robert Zohn]

Here's a picture of the very well attended ATSC 3.0 session. After my question and follow-up comments I was questioned by many of the broadcasters and reporters so I expect we'll hear more about this issue of using ATSC 3.0 for FHD/SDR and FHD/HDR light.

[PaulGo]

As you stated the biggest problem will bandwidth. Currently with the broadcast spectrum sell off many "HD" broadcasts are being piggy backed on the same channel which in the analog days was for one channel. Currently this is compromising the quality of HD broadcasts. Even with ATSC 3.0 using better techniques for transmission putting a UHD HDR signal in the same space allocated will be difficult to impossible. I feel broadcasters will find it more profitable just to put more low resolution channels on the air to get additional advertising revenue.

[PaulGo]

Some information on the ATSC 3.0 standard:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...k-dolby-atmos/

[Robert Zohn]

Very true Paul.

I spent a lot of time with several chief engineers at various O&O stations across America and they are very cooperative in sharing bandwidth and as you said it will degrade the stations that are giving up some of the bandwidth so the FHD/SDR channels will actually degrade the signal quality while the one station using the ATSC 3.0 signal is using the borrowed spectrum.

How can the FCC hold back spectrum when we have a new TV System that they endorsed. Sounds ridiculous to have a new standard that can't be used.

[8traxrule]

As long as the networks continue to intentionally deface their picture with constant logos and graphics onscreen, any improvement in broadcast picture quality is meaningless. I watched far more shows in the analog days when TV was free from that garbage than I have watched any HD programming- and current HD does have far too much compression also. ATSC 3.0 should have a separate graphics channel to overlay any logos and junk that the stations want, but give the viewer the option to turn them OFF so they can actually watch the shows!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I just finished my full two days at NAB's NY show....

I was wondering if you attended again this year.
Anyway, for the future, think two words….’five gee’ - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post15537077

[Robert Zohn]

Love 5G, but getting any faster access to the Internet in every city, town and village across America none the less 5G is many years away.

I want 4K PQ HDR now and naively thought ATSC 3.0 would deliver it to us, just like they do in South Korea.

To me and from what I now believe is that the best and fastest way to make ATSC 3.0 work for all Broadcasters is for the FCC to sell more bandwidth to the TV Broadcasters, who will be the users of ATSC 3.0.

[gkolb]

Robert, sorry to seem dense. What is "O&O"?

Sidenote: Did you feel a little bashful when you read this: "An outspoken metropolitan New York specialty AV retailer confronted ..."

[Robert Zohn]

O&O stands for Owned and Operated. It is used exclusively for the Networks, ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX.

By FCC regulations each of the 4 O&Os (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX) can have only 8 TV OTA Stations each across America. So they pick the most dense areas to locate there stations.

O&Os can have affiliate stations, that are not owned or operated by the Network, but they use the logos, call signs, and most of the programming with local news added in.

We also have Independents and PBS stations, like in NY we have WWOR (Channel 9) and PIX11.

So ATSC 3.0 is for all O&Os in the 8 cities they operate and all of the hundreds of affiliates that use the network branding and also the small independence and finally all of the PBS stations. Lots of TV Broadcasting in our country.

I did not forget about the thousands of low power broadcasters as I'm including all low power broadcasters in the "Independence" category. I'm hoping to get ATSC 3.0 (and 5G BTW) in Scarsdale NY for our two Scarsdale Channels, the High School and Government channels.

Let's all become activists for all of our local broadcasters to step up to ATSC 3.0 ASAP.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Robert, sorry to seem dense. What is "O&O"?

Sidenote: Did you feel a little bashful when you read this: "An outspoken metropolitan New York specialty AV retailer confronted ..."

I'm ok with the "outspoken" word, although it can be taken as rude and I was and always am 180 degrees away from rude in my life practice. I do have a passion and love for the art, the story telling and the audio and video performance and of course, the science of fine audio and video.

I belief the word "confronted" was used in the authors spicy style. Comments and questions at seminars are common and can be critical of the program and ok if they are polite, appropriate, honest and helpful. I stand very strongly on every word I said and am proud to represent the feelings of many fine lovers of fine immersive audio and video.

With all this said it's important to know that Anne Schelle is a strong proponent of 4K HDR and I totally respect and appreciate her position supporting exactly what I am asking for. Ms. Schelle was just delivering the facts honestly.

I am proud to be as the author says "outspoken" for all that stands for "the best possible performance" from all of our a/v suppliers, the CE Manufacturers, the content creators and delivery providers.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Love 5G, but getting any faster access to the Internet in every city, town and village across America none the less 5G is many years away.

I want 4K PQ HDR now and naively thought ATSC 3.0 would deliver it to us, just like they do in South Korea.

To me and from what I now believe is that the best and fastest way to make ATSC 3.0 work for all Broadcasters is for the FCC to sell more bandwidth to the TV Broadcasters, who will be the users of ATSC 3.0.

I understand

[styxrogan]

typical government program...FUBAR....great new 4 4k uhd disc... cause that is the only 'real" 4k u gonna see 4 a long long time...and seein a real 4k disc with DV, DA, and 4k DI is about as rare as "Bigfoot" sighting

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

As you stated the biggest problem will bandwidth. Current with the broadcast spectrum sell off may "HD" broadcasts are being piggy backed on the same channel which in the analog days was for one channel. Currently this is compromising the quality of HD broadcasts. Even with ATSC 3.0 using better techniques for transmission putting a UHD HDR signal in the same space allocated will be difficult to impossible. I feel broadcasters will find it more profitable just to put more low resolution channels on the air to get additional advertising revenue.

I thought the base level was 720p for ATSC 3.0 , is that what you mean by ‘low resolution channels’. If you mean SD, that’s going to look ugly on 4K sets, surely. Sorry if I sound dim, just wanted to confirm what you meant.

Also, reading some posts on here, ATSC 3.0 sounds pointless as it won’t be able to compete with 4K Netflix or Amazon if it doesn’t have the necessary bandwidth. Is this just Snakeskin oil in that case?


I also thought this tech allows splitting of digital channels to allow more bandwidth per channel, which can then be used to accommodate lower bit rate 4K or be sold on.

I’m really confused.
Sorry for my naivety. I know I quoted Paul, but info from anyone here would be helpful.

[alexanderg823]

Sad news but I would definitely settle for solid 1080p HEVC HDR signal OTA. Isn't atsc 2.0 something like 15ish Mbps MPEG 2?

The jump to hevc at that bitrate would be a huge increase in quality. Not 4k, no, but still would be a dramatic leap that most people probably wouldn't see the difference if it was 4k.

[Robert Zohn]

@Steedeel, what I was told by many broadcasters is that they are working together to share some of their bandwidth that will be taken from the normal ATSC 1.0 channel so they will have a more compressed FHD/SDR signal while the broadcaster who is borrowing bandwidth can air a program that is designed for ATSC 3.0.

@alexanderg823, I brought this up at the 2nd ATSC 3.0 seminar and was told most broadcasters are still using MPEG2 encoders as the final OTA encoder.

We need the FCC to sell more bandwidth to broadcasters and for the broadcasters to embrace ATSC 3.0 and use it for UHD/HDR and when needed add in 2nd screen and or 2-way feedback.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@Steedeel, what I was told by many broadcasters is that they are working together to share some of their bandwidth that will be taken from the normal ATSC 1.0 channel so they will have a more compressed FHD/SDR signal while the broadcaster who is borrowing bandwidth can air a program that is designed for ATSC 3.0.

@alexanderg823, I brought this up at the 2nd ATSC 3.0 seminar and was told most broadcasters are still using MPEG2 encoders as the final OTA encoder.

We need the FCC to sell more bandwidth to broadcasters and for the broadcasters to embrace ATSC 3.0 and use it for UHD/HDR and when needed add in 2nd screen and or 2-way feedback.

Thanks for that Robert.

[x43x]

US broadcasting in 4K HDR will not be happening anytime soon.

I work at a broadcast TV station and 4K isn't even on the radar. Almost every piece in a broadcasters transmitter path will need to be upgraded and stations just don't have that kind of money these days. Viewership is down as is ad-revenue. No broadcaster is thinking of spending a ton of money on less than 10% of their viewers. A portion of our viewers are still watching an SD downconvert from Comcast!

And the government isn't going to give TV anymore bandwidth. Please note that ATSC 3.0 isn't a government mandated transition like going from analog to digital, so writing them isn't going to do anything. The government just sold a bunch of TV spectrum to the cell phone industry which is why we are in the middle of a repack. Many stations are getting all new equipment including transmitters, and I doubt any will want to go through adding a new transmitter on their own dime for 4K.

The real appeal of ATSC 3.0 from a broadcasters view is the ability to send the signal directly to a cell phone or tablet. Millennials just don't watch a lot of local TV. Cord cutters don't automatically put up an antenna to get their locals stations. But the hope is they will use their phone to watch the news or a sporting event.

The only way I see 4K happening in the near future is if the Network upgrades some of their equipment and then uses our direct fiber link to cable or satellite.

All broadcast stations get 20mbs of bandwidth. If you only had one HD channel, it would look superb. But with everyone looking for ad revenue, it's more like three or four channels sharing that spectrum. We do our best, but our SD sub channels don't look very good. Our main stream is 720p and transmits at around 13-14mbs. The other three 480p stations share 6mbs. Another station we run is adding a fifth station....can't wait to see what that looks like!

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but if 4K HDR isn't going to bring in revenue to the station, it probably isn't going to happen.