HDR+Subtitles: The extreme eye strain & PHYSICAL PAIN suffered by disabled consumers.

[SonSon III]

Throbbing pains in your head? Squinting your eyes & having a pounding migraine like you just woke up after your bachelor party?

(This possibly could only be an issue for HDR Subtitles on OLED panels, which is common consumer display technology)

This is a side effect and an unfortunately a commonplace and negligent oversight in this not-so-infant generation of 4K HDR Blu-ray content for those of us that watch or need to watch movies with subtitles. It’s almost as if studios and content providers never even took the time to view their own releases with the HDR-10 1000 nit Pure-White subtitles on a variety of consumer display technologies used today. This level of white was only intended for the brightest of bright momentary split-second experiences of a bulb flash, explosion or the sun reflecting directly into the eyes of a protagonist that’s suffering of dehydration in the desert. This aspect of HDR was NEVER intended to be viewed for long or even relatively short periods of time in the context of a feature film.

Sadly, this scorching brightness, eye pain, headaches & suffering has been passed onto the consumer for the duration of entire feature length film presentations in the form of 1000 nit pure white subtitles on the vast majority of disc-based HDR content. Luckily Apple has applied dark gray subtitles to digitally distribute HDR movie content. For those in the know, Netflix allows your subtitle settings to be altered in your profile to help compensate. In the 4K HDR Blu-ray arena you not only need a specifically branded Panasonic player, but also must adjust said subtitle brightness manually each and every time that you view a film.

If you suffer from this experience, you’re NOT alone.

I know that i’m not the average user, but does anyone else always use subtitles?

Is there any chance that companies will realize that this is a huge issue for those that require subtitles, and maybe start implementing them in a more soothing dark gray color or warmer color temperature for subtitles on HDR UHD releases? This is by far my biggest gripe about this generation of tech. It’s not only an oversight but also a huge insult to peoples with disabilities.


Please help by forwarding this message to all movie studios that are releasing 4K HDR Discs as well as contacting UHD player manufacturers.
The Fix has to start somewhere, I do hope that we can overcome this hurdle together.

Here’s where you can send a message to help:


-Player manufacturers-


Oppo:
https://www.oppodigital.com/ContactUs.aspx?CatID=1

*Or*

‪Service@oppodigital.com

Samsung:

https://contactus.samsung.com/custom....jsp?SITE_ID=1

—————————————

-Film Studios-

Warner Brothers:
https://www.warnerbros.com/customer-service

Sony Pictures/TriStar:
consumer@SPHECustomerSupport.sony.com

Disney:
TWDS.Global.Communications@disney.com

Lions Gate:
https://www.shoplionsgate.com/help/?faqView=ask

[Klaustrofobia]

Panasonics UHD players can change the brightness of the subtitle.

[rschiks]

The first thing I do on my UB900, setting luminance to -4.
A shame it doesn’t save it for future viewings.

[SonSon III]

Originally Posted by rschiks

The first thing I do on my UB900, setting luminance to -4.
A shame it doesn’t save it for future viewings.

It’s a shame to hear that the settings don’t save. By any chance do any Panasonic insiders read these forums? It would also be great to have independent settings for each SDR & HDR.

Also are there any other player options besides the Panasonics?

[trekky76]

I do the same on my player; subtitle shift to the black bar and luminance -3. Though recently I've not been using them since I recalibrated my speakers to focus on centre speaker and toned down L, R and SW. Agree though it would be great to save a profile the same way you can save other settings.

[Mierzwiak]

On my Panny UB300 I lower subtitles luminance even when watching good old SDR Blu-rays, I just don't like pure white subtitles. (Although on some discs they are light gray) Yes, it's a shame you can't save it, but it takes just a few seconds.

Apple TV also have great settings for subtitles (which work not only for iTunes but for every other app like Netflix). You can not only change color but also transparency, shadow or background, for which you can also independently set color and transparency.

[SonSon III]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

On my Panny UB300 I lower subtitles luminance even when watching good old SDR Blu-rays, I just don't like pure white subtitles. (Although on some discs they are light gray) Yes, it's a shame you can't save it, but it takes just a few seconds.

Apple TV also have great settings for subtitles (which work not only for iTunes but for every other app like Netflix). You can not only change color but also transparency, shadow or background, for which you can also independently set color and transparency.

Apple TV defaults subtitles to HDR as dark gray. This is the content provider’s responsibility, and I plead with studios to PLEASE use do the same with all HDR 4K UltraHD Blu-ray releases. Please stop making disabled people suffer because of a glaring oversight with this new format. 1000 nits of pure blinding bright white subtitles is an offense & insult to consumers that require subs.


Can someone please start a Sticky Master List of UHD releases that are releases that have properly toned down subtitles for disabled people and foreign film aficionados that don’t have incorrect pure white subs? The studios might catch on if they see the demand. If we cannot enjoy the movies without darkening our displays to the point that we cannot enjoy the film & full 4K UHD experience, we might as well buy the book instead (which defeats the point of movies).


This thread isn’t a joke or trolling, so I hope if someone won’t start a master list that maybe even this thread can be stickied. We all deserve to be able to watch the movies that we purchase without moderate or extreme discomfort just because we rely on Closed Captioning.

[SonSon III]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

I just don't like pure white subtitles. (Although on some discs they are light gray)

Do you know which discs have gray subtitles so that disabled people can know which 4K movies are available that they can actually purchase and enjoy? It shouldn’t be the responsibility of disabled (or any consumer) to purchase a specific Panasonic player just to be able to actually watch a movie with subtitles. (Studios, are you listening?)

On AppleTV this is fixed. On Netflix you can adjust subtitles in account settings, on 4K Blu-ray we’re at the mercy of the actual studios that mostly can apparently care less.

[Mobe1969]

I set mine to -12. And I shift them as low as possible.

I love that feature of it. I can't believe it isn't even publicized. They don't even list it in the manual.

[SonSon III]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

I set mine to -12. And I shift them as low as possible.

I love that feature of it. I can't believe it isn't even publicized. They don't even list it in the manual.

Unfortunately I do not own a Panasonic player because I didn’t know that it was the ***ONLY*** company with UHD Players that accommodates people that rely on subtitles.

This ultimately is an issue of reckless, careless & greedy studios that rely on touting features such as subs that they never even bothered to try to view themselves or they’d have seen the problem. Most 4K UHD content with HDR’s 1000 Nit pure white subs is like trying to stare at a solar eclipse without sunglasses. It’s not enjoyable, it’s painful.


Please do try to contact all studios that you can about addressing this, as well as player manufacturers in hopes to implement something like Panasonic’s solution to this very real issue. Don’t hesitate to contact Panasonic as well, since the settings aren’t saved & persistent.

I’ve heard that the UHD player manufacturer, Oppo, actually listens to consumer input for future firmware updates. They can be contacted here: https://www.oppodigital.com/ContactUs.aspx?CatID=1

[SonSon III]

Update:
Already received a response from Oppo:

This is something we are looking into and a couple customers have requested this feature as well. Hopefully we can implement it in a future firmware.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
162 Constitution Dr.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
Service@oppodigital.com

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by SonSon III

Update:
Already received a response from Oppo:

Just a curiosity question, what display is this happening on?

I’m wondering about the 1,000 nits issue.

[SonSon III]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Just a curiosity question, what display is this happening on?

I’m wondering about the 1,000 nits issue.

As encoded on disc. Pure white is pure white, so the max amount that your particular display supports when displaying HDR content. If your display only can do 300 nits, it’s still the going to be the maximum, making for an unpleasant viewing experience.


I’m just hoping for a solution to a very real problem & oversight. If you wish to debate the issue with others as to the tech or the “why”, you’re more than welcome.

[ray0414]

Nice to see Oppo still exploring adding new features despite having left the market. Subtitles on a 2000 not tv are extremely bright. Movie credits also.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by SonSon III

As encoded on disc. Pure white is pure white, so the max amount that your particular display supports when displaying HDR content. If your display only can do 300 nits, it’s still the going to be the maximum, making for an unpleasant viewing experience.


I’m just hoping for a solution to a very real problem & oversight. If you wish to debate the issue with others as to the tech or the “why”, you’re more than welcome.

Hmm, not a debate. It was a question. Thanks for the dismissive reply.

[SonSon III]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Hmm, not a debate. It was a question. Thanks for the dismissive reply.

The “2000 nit” Vizio P series is supposed to top out at 1000 nits in HDR mode. My display is a LG OLED E7 and it’s already an eye scorcher with whites in HDR mode which supposedly supports *up to* 700 nits in that mode and isn’t as bright as other displays.
I’m not concerned about arguing TV specs with a member here that’s been around for much longer than myself, but rather focusing on how bad the subtitles are implemented on HDR content are for many viewers that may be concerned as well.

[Mobe1969]

Yeah, I would have hoped subtitles would be better this generation, but they aren't. I mean the ability to change their size, lower, drop, change luminance should be mandatory in the spec. I mean aside from the brightness, which is ridiculous often, the fact that it doesn't matter if you are watching on a projector or a panel TV you get the same size.

That is one thing about the AppleTV I prefer over disc media - the subtitle options. Unfortunately you can't move them, but you can make transparent and drop size.

[Geoff D]

I've got a 2000-nit beast and things like titles, subtitles etc are not eye-meltingly bright. Not saying anyone else isn't getting that effect, lest I get a terse reply, but it's curious. Watching in a darkened room as well.

[Fat Phil]

I find it depends on the studio. I don't have a particularly high nit panel but I do watch in a dark room and pretty much all The Disney/Marvel subtitles are way too garish and imposing for my liking. That's not just brightness, but also size and choice of font. Most other studios seem the strike a nicer balance.

[MiName]

Is this issue specific to 4k disc only? Did not have any issue. I don't have any 4k that requires subtitles.