Universal's Kornblau wants format war to continue - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

dialog_gvf · 08-09-2007, 01:34 PM

Aug 28 - Release of Heroes on HD DVD

On the same day we should have "Send a Message to Kornblau Day". A buy-a-thon with a direct purpose.

JTK · 08-09-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Truelly amazing. Incredibly, it confirms everything many of us have been saying for years about Universal being bought and paid for. Even in face of incentives, they remain firm. The deal with MS-Toshiba must be so freaking sweet that it can't be budged by the BDA.

Time for the DOJ to look into that. It sounds like it is too sweet. And if it is specifically blocking support of another format, it is illegal.

Time for the BDA to take that incentive money that was offered and put it into the war marchine.

Time to crush HD DVD.

The HD-DVD FUD-bots really should be silent today.

Kornblau and this article vindicate and confirm SO MUCH that it's really downright laughable. Second or third paragraph even alludes to the connection we all know with Microsoft. Where else would the money and "incentives" to say HD-DVD exclusive be coming from?

The whole cat's out of the bag!

That article is practically a Rosetta Stone of FUD and myth smashing fact.

It's incredible. I absolutely love this article for the full fledged exposure of this charade, straight from the horse's mouth.

scott1256ca · 08-09-2007, 01:49 PM

I had a look at the article, and there are a couple of counterpoints I want to make.

1. Universal risks alienating those people who buy an HD DVD player now, and find Universal going neutral in 6 mo. to a year. Especially when they find out Universal held out intentionally to keep HD DVD alive. I'd be PO'd to spend $300 on a player (apparently they still have quite a few that don't play reliably), invest another $600-$700 in software, only to find I backed the wrong horse because Universal caved in, and intended to all along, once prices of players got to a certain point.

2. Prices are going to come down anyway. I won't argue they are lower than they would have been for the standalones, but the PS3 was never going to hit the market at a higher price than it did. In fact, they are dropping the price now in response to the success of the Wii and continued decent sales of the Xbox 360. So the entry point, would still be $499, at the highest.

3. If interactivity is so important, they could still severly limit the number of movies they release on BD until profile 1.1 was ready, or capable of supporting the features they want. Disney and Fox seem to be holding back until they get the features they want, although I'll admit that those two studios have a lot of clout right now because of the format war. The BDA has to try to satisfy them quickly if they refuse to release movies because they can't give too much ammo to HD DVD, but how much clout is Universal going to have with the BDA, given they aren't supporting the format.

4. There are growing pains with both formats and holding back releases was inevitable until some of them are worked out, so it isn't as if Universal would be releasing even more if prices were down to $200 already. In fact, they have probably been releasing more than they like in order to keep HD DVD going. The growing pains are things like AACS being cracked, the problems they have with some of the disks not working and having to be reissued, or followed by firmware upgrades, which has affected both formats, or the combo disks having issues with playability.

5. They are making no friends with the CE companies, who are seeing their margins erode quickly, and they aren't selling players at phenomenal rates not just because of price, but because consumers are sitting on the sidelines waiting for a clear winner.

6. If they are so consumer friendly, how come the quality of their releases has been so poor lately? This goes to my point about them releasing more movies than they'd like. The older films have to have some restoration in order to scan into HD with any kind of quality, and they don't seem to be doing that. Also, neither VC1 or AVC seem to be at the stage of "set it and forget it" for doing encodes, they need some serious hand tweaking to come out well, but if either format is going to look ok without the hand tweaking, it is BD because they could set the codec to encode for higher bit rate and space.

I think Universal must have made a deal to get cash for staying neutral beyond just lower prices for manufacturing, and of all the studios, they are apparently the one most in need of cash, since their movies aren't doing so well at the box office this year (with the few exception mentioned in the article).

dialog_gvf · 08-09-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTK

The HD-DVD FUD-bots really should be silent today.

I'll bet they hold a "ticker tape parade" for the guy. They aren't rational.

Glow007 · 08-09-2007, 01:59 PM

How prolonging the format war is giving the customers a choice is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If he really wants to give consumers a choice release on both formats and watch how quickly EVERYONE jumps onto the Blu-ray train. The consumers will make the choice for them.

Its obvious now to me why they chose HD-DVD...The company is in a slump and doing terrible. They saw HD-DVD as cheaper so they went with it. Not because it was better for consumers, because it was better for their pocketbooks.

High Def Fan · 08-09-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight-Errant

This could backfire badly for them as I think consumers are getting pretty frustrated by this format war and its leading to mass confusion.

I don't think the format war has confused people. Most people are confused on a daily basis. Looking at these numbers, why would anyone think a single format would be adopted any faster today? People are just clueless.. How many people have bought HD DVD's or Blu-ray's without owning a player? How many think DVD is already High Def?

The only consumers getting frustrated are the .5% that have a clue. The other .5% already own some sort of player and the other 99% are clueless

http://kotaku.com/gaming/how-do-i-hd...res-287579.php

Glow007 · 08-09-2007, 02:06 PM

Not to mention all of the subsudizing on top of it all that they blatantly admit.

High Def Fan · 08-09-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glow007

How prolonging the format war is giving the customers a choice is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If he really wants to give consumers a choice release on both formats and watch how quickly EVERYONE jumps onto the Blu-ray train. The consumers will make the choice for them.

Its obvious now to me why they chose HD-DVD...The company is in a slump and doing terrible. They saw HD-DVD as cheaper so they went with it. Not because it was better for consumers, because it was better for their pocketbooks.

I don't think everyone being neutral would be good for blu-ray. The vast majority of people are clueless (see above post). So they likely would choose HD DVD simply because its cheaper. They wouldn't know any of the differences between the two - they'd see both movies available on each, both in HD And HD DVD player is cheaper.

Blu-ray needed the studio advantage at the start.

Glow007 · 08-09-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Def Fan

I don't think the format war has confused people. Most people are confused on a daily basis. Looking at these numbers, why would anyone think a single format would be adopted any faster today? People are just clueless.. How many people have bought HD DVD's or Blu-ray's without owning a player? How many think DVD is already High Def?

The only consumers getting frustrated are the .5% that have a clue. The other .5% already own some sort of player and the other 99% are clueless

http://kotaku.com/gaming/how-do-i-hd...res-287579.php

I have to agree to a certain extent. The majority of people today are clueless, and people as a whole are idiots.

However I have alot of friends who Ive been telling about BD and they want to get into it, however they are afraid to drop the money for fear of choosing the wrong format. My uncle for instance is very informed, but he wont buy a Blu-ray player because he wants all his movies in HD, and says he wont drop the money til there is a clear winner....

Mass adoption could take place if there was only one format

dialog_gvf · 08-09-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Def Fan

I don't think everyone being neutral would be good for blu-ray. The vast majority of people are clueless (see above post). So they likely would choose HD DVD simply because its cheaper. They wouldn't know any of the differences between the two - they'd see both movies available on each, both in HD And HD DVD player is cheaper.

Blu-ray needed the studio advantage at the start.

You figure none of them will want a Disney, Fox, MGM, Sony or Lionsgate title when they buy that player?

And, Kornblau seems to disagree with you on the first point.

The Big Blue · 08-09-2007, 02:18 PM

The "limited window of time" for me giving a **** about Uni on BD is quickly expiring. If this drags out much longer I'm gonna have a loooooong memory.

High Def Fan · 08-09-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

You figure none of them will want a Disney, Fox, MGM, Sony or Lionsgate title when they buy that player?

Did you even read my post?

If ALL studios had been neutral, it would not have been good for blu-ray - people would see the same movies for each format and pick the cheaper player. That's simply how the vast majority of buyers operate.

dialog_gvf · 08-09-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Def Fan

Did you even read my post?

If ALL studios had been neutral, it would not have been good for blu-ray - people would see the same movies for each format and pick the cheaper player. That's simply how the vast majority of buyers operate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Def Fan

I don't think everyone being neutral would be good for blu-ray.

Future tense.

Do you mean "would have been"?

High Def Fan · 08-09-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Future tense.

Do you mean "would have been"?

Yes.. Even with the typo, taken in context with the post I replied to, I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying

But yes - it was a what if scenario and I think the way it is today is the only way it would have worked for blu-ray - WITH the vast majority of studio support.

JTK · 08-09-2007, 02:33 PM

Myself and others have been predicting this Christmas would more or less finish this thing off in favor of BD.

To that end, my expectations for how that would happen were fairly conservative.

Coming off of this article (and other things), I'm ramping my expecations up to a sheer blowout and 300-esqe bloodbath by BD this Christmas.

I think it's going to be a hell of a lot more than the 2-1 margin that's it more or less been since November, especially if the big exclusive studios like Fox finally come out of their coma and really deliver some goods.

This hardware price stuff? At least we finally got some kind of indicator of what Universal is looking for. That $200 MSRP price point is where they get off, huh?

Isn't there an HD-DVD player out there that's already that cheap, or not yet?

I hope HD-DVD finds a way to put a $100 MSRP HD-DVD player out there for the holidays just so we can really watch this get put down once and for all.

Watch it fail miserably despite being dirt cheap and end that nonsense once and for all.

I'll say this much at least: I have more respect for Kornblau then I do a Kool Aid driven zealot like Ken Graffeo, who really comes across as someone who doesn't know his _____ from a hole in the wall.

Heck, if anything, Kornblau is a bit too blunt and straightforwad and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some heat for it from some of his allies in this little venture.

Maybe that article will disappear before too long.

Wouldn't surprise me.

It really amazes me how much of the charade he gives up in this one interview.

Compelling exclusive content is going to win this thing in big droves. Go ahead and flood the market with cheap crap. It just isn't going to matter. It's not working now. It's not going to work at Christmas. It's not going to work, ever.

The people that are buying any of this stuff right now understand that when new formats and ventures come out, that there's a certain evolution period before you get ALL the bells and whistles.

This BS about BD not having interactivity and special features is going to die this Christmas as well. BD+ and Java were and are worth it and it's all going to come out in the long run anyways.

The people buying now care most about great picture and audio and the rest can come later.

Real enthusiasts understand all of this.

High Def Fan · 08-09-2007, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTK

I hope HD-DVD finds a way to put a $100 MSRP HD-DVD player out there for the holidays just so we can really watch this get put down once and for all.

I don't see them dropping that low (certainly not MSRP!) and if they did, I don't think it would help things.

How many people would buy one just because its cheap and if HD DVD lost it wouldn't be a huge loss? That puts it below the price of some good upconverting players and from what I've read, most of the HD DVD players upconversion is great.

On the other hand, if this happened, what would happen with blu-ray player pricing? $200?

I know many people that would buy either player today if they knew it would be around in a few years. If they could spend $300 and have both, I think they would do that today too.

There's a lot of speculation here though and I for one don't see prices going that low this holiday.

dialog_gvf · 08-09-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Def Fan

How many people would buy one just because its cheap and if HD DVD lost it wouldn't be a huge loss? That puts it below the price of some good upconverting players and from what I've read, most of the HD DVD players upconversion is great.

Most people here wouldn't have an issue spending the $239 or less for an HD DVD player NOW.

But, we'd be committing more than $239. We'd also be committing to maintaining the format in the home theater system indefinitely to support the HD DVD software being purchased.

If HD DVD disappeared, then what?

Lord_Stewie · 08-09-2007, 02:52 PM

It seems that Universal is not ready to accept the losses. they have invested too much on a dying format, and just not ready to walk away from it. I wonder what they have in store for the 4th Q.

dialog_gvf · 08-09-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadblz

It seems that Universal is not ready to accept the losses. they have invested too much on a dying format, and just not ready to walk away from it. I wonder what they have in store for the 4th Q.

We already know the new releases. One should be a BIG hit (Bourne Ultimatum) if it comes out Q4. Two "talking head" comedies. And Evan Almighty.

Their flood o' catalogue titles has had little effect, except maybe to maintain the 2:1.

JTK · 08-09-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

We already know the new releases. One should be a BIG hit (Bourne Ultimatum) if it comes out Q4. Two "talking head" comedies. And Evan Almighty.

Their flood o' catalogue titles has had little effect, except maybe to maintain the 2:1.

What else do they have? It's obvious, barring something unbelievable, tha they aren't going to be whipping out Spielberg movies and stuff like that.

This is going to be a bloodbath, straight out of Sparta.

08-09-2007, 01:49 PM	#23
scott1256ca Active Member Member since:Oct 2006	I had a look at the article, and there are a couple of counterpoints I want to make. 1. Universal risks alienating those people who buy an HD DVD player now, and find Universal going neutral in 6 mo. to a year. Especially when they find out Universal held out intentionally to keep HD DVD alive. I'd be PO'd to spend $300 on a player (apparently they still have quite a few that don't play reliably), invest another $600-$700 in software, only to find I backed the wrong horse because Universal caved in, and intended to all along, once prices of players got to a certain point. 2. Prices are going to come down anyway. I won't argue they are lower than they would have been for the standalones, but the PS3 was never going to hit the market at a higher price than it did. In fact, they are dropping the price now in response to the success of the Wii and continued decent sales of the Xbox 360. So the entry point, would still be $499, at the highest. 3. If interactivity is so important, they could still severly limit the number of movies they release on BD until profile 1.1 was ready, or capable of supporting the features they want. Disney and Fox seem to be holding back until they get the features they want, although I'll admit that those two studios have a lot of clout right now because of the format war. The BDA has to try to satisfy them quickly if they refuse to release movies because they can't give too much ammo to HD DVD, but how much clout is Universal going to have with the BDA, given they aren't supporting the format. 4. There are growing pains with both formats and holding back releases was inevitable until some of them are worked out, so it isn't as if Universal would be releasing even more if prices were down to $200 already. In fact, they have probably been releasing more than they like in order to keep HD DVD going. The growing pains are things like AACS being cracked, the problems they have with some of the disks not working and having to be reissued, or followed by firmware upgrades, which has affected both formats, or the combo disks having issues with playability. 5. They are making no friends with the CE companies, who are seeing their margins erode quickly, and they aren't selling players at phenomenal rates not just because of price, but because consumers are sitting on the sidelines waiting for a clear winner. 6. If they are so consumer friendly, how come the quality of their releases has been so poor lately? This goes to my point about them releasing more movies than they'd like. The older films have to have some restoration in order to scan into HD with any kind of quality, and they don't seem to be doing that. Also, neither VC1 or AVC seem to be at the stage of "set it and forget it" for doing encodes, they need some serious hand tweaking to come out well, but if either format is going to look ok without the hand tweaking, it is BD because they could set the codec to encode for higher bit rate and space. I think Universal must have made a deal to get cash for staying neutral beyond just lower prices for manufacturing, and of all the studios, they are apparently the one most in need of cash, since their movies aren't doing so well at the box office this year (with the few exception mentioned in the article). Last edited by scott1256ca; 08-09-2007 at 01:53 PM.

08-09-2007, 01:59 PM	#25
Glow007 Active Member Member since:Jun 2007	Those Morons How prolonging the format war is giving the customers a choice is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If he really wants to give consumers a choice release on both formats and watch how quickly EVERYONE jumps onto the Blu-ray train. The consumers will make the choice for them. Its obvious now to me why they chose HD-DVD...The company is in a slump and doing terrible. They saw HD-DVD as cheaper so they went with it. Not because it was better for consumers, because it was better for their pocketbooks.

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08-09-2007, 01:34 PM	#21
dialog_gvf Moderator Member since:Nov 2006 Location:Toronto Blu-ray collection:320	Aug 28 - Release of Heroes on HD DVD On the same day we should have "Send a Message to Kornblau Day". A buy-a-thon with a direct purpose.

08-09-2007, 02:06 PM	#27
Glow007 Active Member Member since:Jun 2007	Not to mention all of the subsudizing on top of it all that they blatantly admit.

08-09-2007, 02:18 PM	#31
The Big Blue Blu-ray Guru Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:98 Blu-ray reviews:1	The "limited window of time" for me giving a **** about Uni on BD is quickly expiring. If this drags out much longer I'm gonna have a loooooong memory.

08-09-2007, 02:33 PM	#35
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	Myself and others have been predicting this Christmas would more or less finish this thing off in favor of BD. To that end, my expectations for how that would happen were fairly conservative. Coming off of this article (and other things), I'm ramping my expecations up to a sheer blowout and 300-esqe bloodbath by BD this Christmas. I think it's going to be a hell of a lot more than the 2-1 margin that's it more or less been since November, especially if the big exclusive studios like Fox finally come out of their coma and really deliver some goods. This hardware price stuff? At least we finally got some kind of indicator of what Universal is looking for. That $200 MSRP price point is where they get off, huh? Isn't there an HD-DVD player out there that's already that cheap, or not yet? I hope HD-DVD finds a way to put a $100 MSRP HD-DVD player out there for the holidays just so we can really watch this get put down once and for all. Watch it fail miserably despite being dirt cheap and end that nonsense once and for all. I'll say this much at least: I have more respect for Kornblau then I do a Kool Aid driven zealot like Ken Graffeo, who really comes across as someone who doesn't know his _____ from a hole in the wall. Heck, if anything, Kornblau is a bit too blunt and straightforwad and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some heat for it from some of his allies in this little venture. Maybe that article will disappear before too long. Wouldn't surprise me. It really amazes me how much of the charade he gives up in this one interview. Compelling exclusive content is going to win this thing in big droves. Go ahead and flood the market with cheap crap. It just isn't going to matter. It's not working now. It's not going to work at Christmas. It's not going to work, ever. The people that are buying any of this stuff right now understand that when new formats and ventures come out, that there's a certain evolution period before you get ALL the bells and whistles. This BS about BD not having interactivity and special features is going to die this Christmas as well. BD+ and Java were and are worth it and it's all going to come out in the long run anyways. The people buying now care most about great picture and audio and the rest can come later. Real enthusiasts understand all of this.

08-09-2007, 02:52 PM	#38
Lord_Stewie Blu-ray Baron Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray collection:396 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	It seems that Universal is not ready to accept the losses. they have invested too much on a dying format, and just not ready to walk away from it. I wonder what they have in store for the 4th Q.

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