Fantasia (1940) (The Signature Collection) - TBA

[sandman slim]

Only version I've ever seen, happy with this.

[shinobipopcorn]

I like the short version because those longer introductions are redundant. I'm going to watch Mickey mess up the room, I don't need a summary!

[Bandit Tajomaru]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Alternate = illegal pirate copy

I wouldn't mind as long as the copy was uncensored.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Alternate = illegal pirate copy

One that is actually true to its original form.

Originally Posted by sandman slim

Only version I've ever seen, happy with this.

Ignorance is bliss as they say

[The Valeyard]

I'd like one closer to the original Fantasound. The Blu-ray mix just doesn't cut it.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by The Valeyard

I'd like one closer to the original Fantasound. The Blu-ray mix just doesn't cut it.

The laserdisc audio is closest. That's the one to use for any good alternate release

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by The Valeyard

I'd like one closer to the original Fantasound. The Blu-ray mix just doesn't cut it.

I have the CD that came in the deluxe VHS box. It's not video of course but it at least preserves the hard L/R and is a good master. I think the DVD had it but not 100% sure. The DVD era was a big mess with all those home theater mixes.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

I like the short version because those longer introductions are redundant. I'm going to watch Mickey mess up the room, I don't need a summary!

That's how audiences saw it in 1940, but I agree...the intro to Rite of Spring in particular makes modern audiences twitchy, but you have to consider the time Fantasia was made. America was only 15 years past the Scopes Monkey Trial with an educator arrested for teaching evolution, no human had ever seen the Earth from space...I forgive the 1940 version for a little hand-holding.

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

That's how audiences saw it in 1940, but I agree...the intro to Rite of Spring in particular makes modern audiences twitchy, but you have to consider the time Fantasia was made. America was only 15 years past the Scopes Monkey Trial with an educator arrested for teaching evolution, no human had ever seen the Earth from space...I forgive the 1940 version for a little hand-holding.

Same reason Oz had to become "all a dream"... Audiences weren't smart enough to consider a world like that back then.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Same reason Oz had to become "all a dream"... Audiences weren't smart enough to consider a world like that back then.

There were plenty of fantasy films under cinema's belt by 1939. I think the Wizard of Oz's conclusion was just solid story structure, giving a kind of believability to ground the fantasy. The ending of the book is simply Dorothy waking up alone in a Kansas field after her wild adventures, excited to be home. By contrast, Walt was presenting evolution and the demise of the dinosaurs. It's no mystery why the intermission for Fantasia took place right after Rite of Spring -- it gave audiences in 1940 a moment to catch their breath, and right after the intermission, the film goes through three comic vignettes in a row (Meet the Soundtrack, Beethoven's 6th, and Dance of the Hours) as a kind of counter-weight to the first half of the film. Then the film goes into horror territory, before concluding with the Ave Maria. The entire movie is a 1940 animation demo reel, but it was also challenging in very unique ways.

[TylerDurden389]

And well worth it, it was. Rite of Spring gave us the opening credits to "Superman" (Don't even try to say Richard Donner WASN'T influenced by it), "The Land Before Time", and even a few bits and pieces of Star Wars seems to take a bit of inspiration of both the dinosaur skeleton in the desert, and William's score when C-3PO is walking through the desert sounds just like the part of Rite of Spring when we see the single-celled organisms in the ocean (after all the volcanoes, before the dinosaurs).

Oh, and upon re-watching "Die Hard" for the umpteenth time recently, I think Michael Kamen took a bit of influence from "Rite" for the end music when John and Holly leave the building (right before John meets Al). Sounds just like the opening notes, but I think played in major key instead of minor key (I'm not a musician, lol).

[ditcin]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

Same reason Oz had to become "all a dream"... Audiences weren't smart enough to consider a world like that back then.

Except Jews. Ancient Hebrew writings mention the "Big Bang" referred to as Zim Zum - the exposition that made the current physical universe. Writings also mention that the sun is the center, and the earth revolves around it.

BTW - I've seen Fantasia more than once in the theater; in different decades. The Laserdisc release is exactly what I experienced in the theater in stereo. The BD is terrible.

[PowellPressburger]

Watching my nearly 30 year old CAV Laserdisc box set now

Audio in Dolby Surround Stereo and of course it kills the Blu-Ray audio

I do love the certificate of authenticity included in the box set. It is good to know the discs are not bootlegs.

[Crispy Noodle]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

Watching my nearly 30 year old CAV Laserdisc box set now

Audio in Dolby Surround Stereo and of course it kills the Blu-Ray audio

I do love the certificate of authenticity included in the box set. It is good to know the discs are not bootlegs.

I need to dig that CAV box out and copy it to DVDr while my old LD player is still working. It's a Pioneer Elite but these days I have to give it a sharp slap for it to load the discs. My Toshiba recorder will do lossless audio recording at the highest speed.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ditcin

Except Jews. Ancient Hebrew writings mention the "Big Bang" referred to as Zim Zum - the exposition that made the current physical universe. Writings also mention that the sun is the center, and the earth revolves around it.

BTW - I've seen Fantasia more than once in the theater; in different decades. The Laserdisc release is exactly what I experienced in the theater in stereo. The BD is terrible.

The DVD box set from 2000 is my go-to, as the music is (apparently) Terry Porter's "FantaSound '90" mix, even if there's that trade-off with the expanded interstitials w/ADR and new foley sound f/x.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The DVD box set from 2000 is my go-to, as the music is (apparently) Terry Porter's "FantaSound '90" mix, even if there's that trade-off with the expanded interstitials w/ADR and new foley sound f/x.

The version I have that is my go-to is the 2000 DVD with the censored bits inserted back in (done very way might I did even if the quality of the censored bits is not on the par with DVD footage).

My "dream" version that can be attained with all currently available sources would be this

Blu Ray footage
Laserdisc audio for most of it
DVD audio for the footage of the missing Deems audio
Censored bits from an HD film transfer reinserted (yes those exist)

Question for those who own the LD. I know the censorship isn't as smooth as the DVD and blu ray, right? So does that mean the audio cuts out? Or is the audio on the Pastoral symphony intact on LD as it is on DVD/blu?

[Ned Brainard]

If I were producing a new home video edition of Fantasia, I would present several different cuts of the film:
1. The 1940 Roadshow version as reconstructed in 2000 with the Corey Burton redub.
2. The 1947 reissue version with the surviving Deems Taylor audio.
3. The 1942 heavily recut 80 minute version (for kicks and grins - I would love to see a cutting continuity for this version)
4. The 1982 Irwin Kostal rescored version.
While I hate censorship, I would reluctantly go along with the Sunflower edits. If this were a niche release going out through the Warner Archive or Kino, you could probably get away with it, but with a mass market item I don't think you could without tempting the ire of the twitter outrage mob (most of whom have probably never seen the film, know little to nothing about it, and probably have no intention to ever watch it). However, I would include the uncensored footage in the supplemental features with all of the talking heads (Leonard Maltin, Whoopi Goldberg, etc.) to explain the segment and its historical context.

[Logos14]

I'd rather have the unaltered version, but how much does a black centaurette slave character add to the movie? What's "horrid" is Walt Disney's decision to combine a minstrel show stereotype with Beethoven.

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Class316

The version I have that is my go-to is the 2000 DVD with the censored bits inserted back in (done very way might I did even if the quality of the censored bits is not on the par with DVD footage).

My "dream" version that can be attained with all currently available sources would be this

Blu Ray footage
Laserdisc audio for most of it
DVD audio for the footage of the missing Deems audio
Censored bits from an HD film transfer reinserted (yes those exist)

Question for those who own the LD. I know the censorship isn't as smooth as the DVD and blu ray, right? So does that mean the audio cuts out? Or is the audio on the Pastoral symphony intact on LD as it is on DVD/blu?

I have the VHS (which would be the same as the LD, I have that too but no player), and a clip which I believe is from one of the Wonderful World specials which has Sunflower intact. The audio just cuts around the part where several girls are prancing and the two clips never catch up like the DVD. Most of the other scenes just zoom in so you can't see her (except for the carpet scene where you can just see her tail if you look for it).

[Ernest Rister]

Some films arguably influenced by Fantasia...

2001: A Space Odyssey (a board member here once claimed Kubrick once said Walt Disney was the only true artist the American studio system ever created...complicated statement because it can be read in a lot of ways...I still haven't found the actual quote...regardless, it's almost impossible for me to separate Fantasia and 2001 from a kind of family employing "classical" music to express and inspire visual ideas....see also "Ride of the Valkyries" in Apocalypse Now)

The Red Shoes (New York's Museum of Modern Art showed Fantasia and The Red Shoes as a celebration of dance, but the visual abstractions, use of color, and movement in The Red Shoes seem so twinned up with Fantasia it's impossible for me to watch either without thinking of the other)

Close Encounters of the Third Kind (musical and visual communication with the Mother Ship, musical noites personified by colored lights, which was a device Stokowski employed even before Fantasia, unleashed in Fantasia's Bach opener).

Baby Driver. A bit of a reach but part of the family. Wright said he'd listen to music and then plan his shots to match the music.

Yellow Submarine and Pink Floyd The Wall. Haven't read anything stated by Duning or Parker recognizing any influence by Fantasia, but again, part of the family.

Films Absolutely Influenced by Fantasia

"A Corny Concerto" -- Warner Bros. takedown of Walt's Opus
"What's Opera, Doc?" -- Chuck Jones obviously riffing on Fantasia's Night on Bald Mountain in the opening reveal of Elmer.
Allegro Non Troppo (derp)
Fantasia 2000 (double derp)

Feel free to add to the list in either category.