not enough watts per channel?? - Blu-ray Forum

killerbee · 03-11-2009, 11:12 PM

I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

rogman · 03-11-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerbee

I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

If you turn it as loud as you want it and there's no clipping you're fine! Watts per channel is just a number, so I'd listen to your ears. Sounds like 'klipsch guy' is getting commission on selling new Onkyo AVRs!

LifeOfAPirate13 · 03-11-2009, 11:42 PM

Someone mentioned this on my HT page. They told me the 605 is underpowering my whole system which I am sure it is to an extent I never blast the system...well I bump it alittle on the weekends thats about it barely goes over half. He mentioned I should look into an AMP based on the power my speakers can take. (Read my signature) Which would be an ideal setup but the $$ issue right now I dont have the dough to blow on a nice AMP. Does anyone know if this is "truly" underpowering my system with the Onkyo 605 running what I have??? Is it bad to leave it like this without an amp?

richteer · 03-11-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerbee

I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

The salescritter does have a point. You're more likely to damage speakers by under powering them than by over powering them. That's because as you approach the amp's limit it'll start to clip, which will in turn send lots of treble energy to your speakers, potentially burning out your tweeters.

If you're not hearing any distortion you're probably be OK. But beware any loud passages that might fry your speakers...

rogman · 03-11-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeOfAPirate13

Someone mentioned this on my HT page. They told me the 605 is underpowering my whole system which I am sure it is to an extent I never blast the system...well I bump it alittle on the weekends thats about it barely goes over half. He mentioned I should look into an AMP based on the power my speakers can take. (Read my signature) Which would be an ideal setup but the $$ issue right now I dont have the dough to blow on a nice AMP. Does anyone know if this is "truly" underpowering my system with the Onkyo 605 running what I have??? Is it bad to leave it like this without an amp?

It's so easy to spend someone else's money... I think you should buy a new AVR, and an amp and some new speakers too!

Audiophile_At_Birth · 03-12-2009, 12:16 AM

Can you tell if your tweeters have been fried, although they sound normal??

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 03:55 AM

You can definitely tell when you fry your tweeters. I had the flat tweeters that looked like they were made of cloth. Sounds good but fried them. I have a Pioneer Elite 72TXV which is supposed to be 130W, will an Emotiva amp that pushes 125W/channel be better than my receiver? I've never had separates but considering it.

serenity · 03-12-2009, 04:30 AM

The Klipsch rep raises valid points. We work with Klipsch speakers and they tend to sound better with dedicated amps and it mainly has to do with the impedance swings they present. Some of the models dip down to 2 ohms. While most receivers will do an ok job due to the high efficiency. You wont realize their full potential until you hear them with well designed external amps. Klipsch speakers also sound better in well damped rooms that are treated properly.

Emotiva makes some nice amps for the money as well as any good pro amp from Crown or QSC will do the job well. A buddy at work started using some QSC amps with his Yamaha receiver and RF-7's and the difference was pretty dramatic. The biggest difference was the bass. It was more pronounced and defined with better extension.

Hope this helps. My info comes from Klipsch as well.

LifeOfAPirate13 · 03-12-2009, 02:38 PM

Does anyone know if I will be hurting my speakers with my setup??? I mean it sounds really good I never heard anything crackle or whatever its pretty solid but I don't know much about audio stuff....(im a NOOB!)

aramis109 · 03-12-2009, 03:37 PM

As long as you don't push your setup to the point where the speakers are clipping, you're fine. To be honest, that'd probably be too loud anyway. Clean, pure and plenty of power are all good things, but that's not to say that your receiver can't push those speakers.

LifeOfAPirate13 · 03-12-2009, 03:58 PM

Alright thanks for the clarity on this one. I have just seen many setups with the same speakers as me almost and only using an onkyo 605 so I assume there shouldn't be a problem, but the potential of the speakers as a whole can use some more watt's per channel if I ever dazzle into an AMP.

SPH · 03-12-2009, 05:17 PM

I have a 605 and would like to have an amp, but I dont know how to wire it up seeing how there isnt any pre-outs. Is there a way to do it?

aramis109 · 03-12-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPH

I have a 605 and would like to have an amp, but I dont know how to wire it up seeing how there isnt any pre-outs. Is there a way to do it?

Nope. No pre-outs. Have to step up to the 705/706 or higher for that.

Barnum · 03-12-2009, 05:59 PM

He makes a very valid point. Some music can be very demanding on a set or speakers and amp. Just because you do not hear or think you are hearing clipping does not mean that it's not happening. Feed a fraction of a second of clipping to a speaker long enough and bye bye. So many people think that they can hear clipping but in reality have no clue. If you want to know for sure go to a true high end store not some crap store like Best Buy and they will show you. The stores by me in Cleveland will do this and guess what you couldn't hear the clipping.

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 06:21 PM

It would be nice to know what the heck clipping sounds like. I don't turn my speakers that high but on occassions when I get my hands on some good movie or just wanting to test my speakers, I do crank it to an uncomfortable level. Sounds ok but like the above post said, I may not be hearing the clipping.

efesbe · 03-12-2009, 06:26 PM

Ok saw some youtube clips of clipping, I think. I can understand woofers clipping but how do you blow a tweeter?

Barnum · 03-12-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efesbe

It would be nice to know what the heck clipping sounds like. I don't turn my speakers that high but on occassions when I get my hands on some good movie or just wanting to test my speakers, I do crank it to an uncomfortable level. Sounds ok but like the above post said, I may not be hearing the clipping.

Clipping will be a DC (or flat sport on the wave form) voltage which has no sound. That is the problem, people think that a banging speaker is clipping but it is not. DC is very bad for a voice coil.

Yeha-Noha · 03-12-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

Can you tell if your tweeters have been fried, although they sound normal??

A normal sounding tweeter can't possibly be fried. Usually a fried tweeter makes no sound at all. The wiring used for tweeter voice coils is very small diameter and can only conduct so much current. When overdriven, they simply burn out much like a fuse does.

Your tweeters are probably fine, if you can still hear sound coming from them.

SPH · 03-12-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnum

Clipping will be a DC (or flat sport on the wave form) voltage which has no sound. That is the problem, people think that a banging speaker is clipping but it is not. DC is very bad for a voice coil.

+1 Its almost as if you loose a whole range of sound. Like someone with an eq dropped out some sliders

bluseminole · 03-12-2009, 07:22 PM

The issue of impedance dips is very valid as well. Lower-end Onkyo receivers aren't designed to power speakers with nominal impedances less than 8 ohms (6 ohms at the bare min.). If the Klipschs (even with their nominal impedance of 6 or 8 ohms) truly can swing down to 2 ohms like one poster indicated, that could present a big problem for the receiver. My Monitor RS6s, at 6 ohms nominal, can very quickly overheat and tax my receiver at loud listening levels. That is why for movies and music I need to use a separate stereo amp to power them. By keeping the volume low like the Klipsch rep suggested, you avoid "over-driving" the amp in your AVR.

Not to mention, you're not getting nearly 90WPC with all channels driven. Onkyo rates their WPC with two channels driven, not with all channels driven. The Klipsch rep, as others have stated, raises a very valid point. Your speakers are far ahead of your amp technology right now. It's just something to keep in mind until you can afford a separate amp is all.

03-11-2009, 11:12 PM	#1
killerbee Active Member Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Steelers Country Blu-ray collection:76 Blu-ray reviews:1	not enough watts per channel?? I run an onkyo 606 into klipsch rf35 fronts. I spoke to a klipsch guy who stated I did not have enough power to play then hard and that I should not turn the volume past half. I thought that sounded crazy. I don't have any clipping or distortion. The rf35 power is 125 continous and the 606 is 90 per.

03-12-2009, 05:59 PM	#14
Barnum Senior Member Member since:Nov 2007 Trading Score:3	Power He makes a very valid point. Some music can be very demanding on a set or speakers and amp. Just because you do not hear or think you are hearing clipping does not mean that it's not happening. Feed a fraction of a second of clipping to a speaker long enough and bye bye. So many people think that they can hear clipping but in reality have no clue. If you want to know for sure go to a true high end store not some crap store like Best Buy and they will show you. The stores by me in Cleveland will do this and guess what you couldn't hear the clipping.

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
Buying an Onkyo TX NR807 A/V 135 Watts Per Channel	Receivers	Indian Hills Theater	15	01-01-2010 08:13 PM
Are all Watts the Same ??? :)	Receivers	kevinokev	52	01-18-2009 02:11 AM
Watts per channel HELP	Speakers	PSB_Paradigm_HSU	19	01-17-2009 05:15 PM
Surround Speaker Max Input watts VS Receiver watts	Speakers	seigneur_rayden	7	07-29-2008 04:51 AM
Amp for more Watts per channel what brand..	Home Theater General Discussion	Blu Haze	46	04-27-2008 05:32 PM

03-11-2009, 11:42 PM	#3
LifeOfAPirate13 Expert Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Chicago, IL Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:18	Someone mentioned this on my HT page. They told me the 605 is underpowering my whole system which I am sure it is to an extent I never blast the system...well I bump it alittle on the weekends thats about it barely goes over half. He mentioned I should look into an AMP based on the power my speakers can take. (Read my signature) Which would be an ideal setup but the $$ issue right now I dont have the dough to blow on a nice AMP. Does anyone know if this is "truly" underpowering my system with the Onkyo 605 running what I have??? Is it bad to leave it like this without an amp?

03-12-2009, 12:16 AM	#6
Audiophile_At_Birth Special Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:El Paso, TX Home Theater Gallery:31 4K collection:8 Blu-ray collection:235 Blu-ray reviews:1	Can you tell if your tweeters have been fried, although they sound normal??

03-12-2009, 03:55 AM	#7
efesbe Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:14	You can definitely tell when you fry your tweeters. I had the flat tweeters that looked like they were made of cloth. Sounds good but fried them. I have a Pioneer Elite 72TXV which is supposed to be 130W, will an Emotiva amp that pushes 125W/channel be better than my receiver? I've never had separates but considering it.

03-12-2009, 04:30 AM	#8
serenity Member Member since:Jan 2009	The Klipsch rep raises valid points. We work with Klipsch speakers and they tend to sound better with dedicated amps and it mainly has to do with the impedance swings they present. Some of the models dip down to 2 ohms. While most receivers will do an ok job due to the high efficiency. You wont realize their full potential until you hear them with well designed external amps. Klipsch speakers also sound better in well damped rooms that are treated properly. Emotiva makes some nice amps for the money as well as any good pro amp from Crown or QSC will do the job well. A buddy at work started using some QSC amps with his Yamaha receiver and RF-7's and the difference was pretty dramatic. The biggest difference was the bass. It was more pronounced and defined with better extension. Hope this helps. My info comes from Klipsch as well.

03-12-2009, 02:38 PM	#9
LifeOfAPirate13 Expert Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Chicago, IL Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:18	Does anyone know if I will be hurting my speakers with my setup??? I mean it sounds really good I never heard anything crackle or whatever its pretty solid but I don't know much about audio stuff....(im a NOOB!)

03-12-2009, 03:37 PM	#10
aramis109 Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Milwaukee, WI Home Theater Gallery:10 4K collection:4 Blu-ray collection:360 Trading Score:18	As long as you don't push your setup to the point where the speakers are clipping, you're fine. To be honest, that'd probably be too loud anyway. Clean, pure and plenty of power are all good things, but that's not to say that your receiver can't push those speakers.

03-12-2009, 03:58 PM	#11
LifeOfAPirate13 Expert Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Chicago, IL Home Theater Gallery:7 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:18	Alright thanks for the clarity on this one. I have just seen many setups with the same speakers as me almost and only using an onkyo 605 so I assume there shouldn't be a problem, but the potential of the speakers as a whole can use some more watt's per channel if I ever dazzle into an AMP.

03-12-2009, 05:17 PM	#12
SPH Special Member Member since:Dec 2008 Trading Score:12	I have a 605 and would like to have an amp, but I dont know how to wire it up seeing how there isnt any pre-outs. Is there a way to do it?

03-12-2009, 06:21 PM	#15
efesbe Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:14	It would be nice to know what the heck clipping sounds like. I don't turn my speakers that high but on occassions when I get my hands on some good movie or just wanting to test my speakers, I do crank it to an uncomfortable level. Sounds ok but like the above post said, I may not be hearing the clipping.

03-12-2009, 06:26 PM	#16
efesbe Active Member Member since:Dec 2008 Home Theater Gallery:24 Blu-ray collection:14	Ok saw some youtube clips of clipping, I think. I can understand woofers clipping but how do you blow a tweeter?

03-12-2009, 07:22 PM	#20
bluseminole Senior Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Lynchburg, VA Home Theater Gallery:17 Blu-ray collection:177 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:6	The issue of impedance dips is very valid as well. Lower-end Onkyo receivers aren't designed to power speakers with nominal impedances less than 8 ohms (6 ohms at the bare min.). If the Klipschs (even with their nominal impedance of 6 or 8 ohms) truly can swing down to 2 ohms like one poster indicated, that could present a big problem for the receiver. My Monitor RS6s, at 6 ohms nominal, can very quickly overheat and tax my receiver at loud listening levels. That is why for movies and music I need to use a separate stereo amp to power them. By keeping the volume low like the Klipsch rep suggested, you avoid "over-driving" the amp in your AVR. Not to mention, you're not getting nearly 90WPC with all channels driven. Onkyo rates their WPC with two channels driven, not with all channels driven. The Klipsch rep, as others have stated, raises a very valid point. Your speakers are far ahead of your amp technology right now. It's just something to keep in mind until you can afford a separate amp is all.

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals