What series would be able to be remastered in 4K?

[Kaiju no Kami]

I know movies can be remastered in 4K due to them being... well... movies, but what series would companies be able to remaster in 4K? I'm just curious as now I want to be cautious on buying certain series if there's a chance they will get 4K releases. Then again, given BD has been out for nearly 15 years now and there are still a ton of series not on it, we could be on 24K before series get the 4K treatment.

Do you think we will ever see series like Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Gankutsuou, Speed Grapher, Noir, Tiger & Bunny, Ghost in the Shell SAC, Escaflowne, Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop, Psycho Pass, Boogiepop, Cardcaptor Sakura, X, RahXephon, and Fate//Zero get the 4K treatment? Or do you think companies will only stick to the big time movies?

[Member-571539]

It’s tough to say. With declining disc sales year after year, I suspect 4K could be the final physical format we see. Streaming has taken the world by storm and I think it’s only a matter of time before major publishers stop making physical media.

[Lambadelta]

Originally Posted by Kaiju no Kami

Do you think we will ever see series like Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, Gankutsuou, Speed Grapher, Noir, Tiger & Bunny, Ghost in the Shell SAC, Escaflowne, Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop, Psycho Pass, Boogiepop, Cardcaptor Sakura, X, RahXephon, and Fate//Zero get the 4K treatment? Or do you think companies will only stick to the big time movies?

Digital production wise nothing that wasn't atleast produced at near 1080p would look good upscaled to 4K. So I wouldn't expect things like Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood to ever get the 4K treatment since even on BD at 1080p you can see softness in the lines caused by its current upscaling.

Anything that was produced on either 16/35mm film can be rescanned out as 4K, and have a really nice clean image. The latest Cardcaptor Sakura BDs in Japan are 1080p sourced from a 4K master they've made from the original film elements.

[Gorgon]

But, the anime industry is a tad more dependent on Asian sales than NA (especially with the limited 4K customers even here) and Asian customers are losing their interest in physical media-period. Any forums chats on this topic I've viewed are not optimistic, at all.

[SillyG]

I would have loved to see a rescan of the classic Sailor Moon with the grain (and detail) left intact. Madman's Blu-rays look fine, but it's clear that Toei have applied DNR and the like to their so-called remaster.

Similarly, I would love for the classic seasons of The Simpsons (and King of the Hill) to be rescanned from the original film as opposed to the cropped and stretched abominations that are currently making the rounds.

[The Collector FX]

Just this past CES, where 4K/Blu Ray players make a showcase through their manufacturers, did not have ANY product presentations this year for physical media players.

Physical disc sales directly through retailers (not second hand like eBay) have been in decline since 2011. The introduction of 4K UHD Blu Rays did not stall this downward slope at all either.

As for the anime industry adopting 4K BD's en mass, especially for older shows - simply isn't going to happen. Sure, some anime like Akira and Ghost in the Shell have been released in 4K UHD, but those titles are globally known and have a market platform where a UHD release is justified. 95% of Anime do not have this kind of selling power or noteriety to justify a UHD release, and like the previous user said; a UHD release simply isn't possible for alot of anime because of how they're made/animated.

Hell, even Blu Rays are on their way out the door. Best Buy's BD section is a fraction of what it used to be in 2010. Walmart's floor plans for their BD's is smaller than their computer/laptop floorplan now. Target had drastically downsized and continues to do so. FYE, who primarily sells DVD'S/BD's - is going out of business.

Are Anime BD's and UHD's going to disappear? No, but they'll be reduced to collector's items for a very specific consumer demographic just like with music Vinyls and their respective customers.

[The Collector FX]

Originally Posted by Lambadelta

The latest Cardcaptor Sakura BDs in Japan are 1080p sourced from a 4K master they've made from the original film elements.

Did the NIS release of Cardcaptor Sakura for North America use this same 4K master?

[NLScavenger]

Originally Posted by The Collector FX

Did the NIS release of Cardcaptor Sakura for North America use this same 4K master?

No. The NIS set was released a few years before the remaster.

[InuYashaCrusade]

Originally Posted by The Collector FX

Just this past CES, where 4K/Blu Ray players make a showcase through their manufacturers, did not have ANY product presentations this year for physical media players.

Physical disc sales directly through retailers (not second hand like eBay) have been in decline since 2011. The introduction of 4K UHD Blu Rays did not stall this downward slope at all either.

As for the anime industry adopting 4K BD's en mass, especially for older shows - simply isn't going to happen. Sure, some anime like Akira and Ghost in the Shell have been released in 4K UHD, but those titles are globally known and have a market platform where a UHD release is justified. 95% of Anime do not have this kind of selling power or noteriety to justify a UHD release, and like the previous user said; a UHD release simply isn't possible for alot of anime because of how they're made/animated.

Hell, even Blu Rays are on their way out the door. Best Buy's BD section is a fraction of what it used to be in 2010. Walmart's floor plans for their BD's is smaller than their computer/laptop floorplan now. Target had drastically downsized and continues to do so. FYE, who primarily sells DVD'S/BD's - is going out of business.

Are Anime BD's and UHD's going to disappear? No, but they'll be reduced to collector's items for a very specific consumer demographic just like with music Vinyls and their respective customers.

I find it depressing to walk into any of the big retailers and see what physical media has been reduced to. Give it another year or two and one of the big retailers is gonna make a move that others will follow.

FYE isn't confirmed to be closing unless I missed something. They were bought out in February but they won't be closing.

[LexInHD]

I'll take any of the Sunrise shows in 4K. Their detailed animation would be served well by that resolution.

[EricDent1]

Just to note I went into the local FYE back in February and it looked like Funko pop & other merchandise had basically taken over the store.
This is the same store that had multiple aisles full of music CDs at one time.
The movie section was about the same as it used to be (though with shorter shelves).

[Kaiju no Kami]

Okay, no offense to anyone, but only one post seemed to actually be part of the topic. The status of physical media and all of the conspiracy theories surrounding that have nothing to do with my topic. I just want to know what series are possible to see in 4K because they're able to be remastered. I know any series animated onto video tape can not be remastered, right?

Originally Posted by Lambadelta

Digital production wise nothing that wasn't atleast produced at near 1080p would look good upscaled to 4K. So I wouldn't expect things like Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood to ever get the 4K treatment since even on BD at 1080p you can see softness in the lines caused by its current upscaling.

Why not? Isn't digital supposed to be the easiest thing to put into 4K? You just up the resolution on the computer and rerender the thing in 4K as opposed to having to completely scan in old animation cells and film prints, right?

[Lambadelta]

Originally Posted by Kaiju no Kami

Why not? Isn't digital supposed to be the easiest thing to put into 4K? You just up the resolution on the computer and rerender the thing in 4K as opposed to having to completely scan in old animation cells and film prints, right?

That isn't how it works. If upscaling digital anime was that easy we wouldn't have any issues with shows produced in 240p not looking like garbage when upscaled.

you can't just slap a new resolution on, and "rerender".

[The Collector FX]

Originally Posted by InuYashaCrusade

FYE isn't confirmed to be closing unless I missed something. They were bought out in February but they won't be closing.

All that's left are their small mall locations, pretty much all of their superstores are closed. Plus who knows what the COVID pandemic will do to it. I remember they got purchased a few months ago, and I read on it. The company that bought FYE isn't going to do anything with it. They bought FYE for pennies and will just ride it out until whatever profit they get runs it's course.

It's not technically "out of business", but it certainly will be.

And I agree. I used to have so much fun browsing the selection of movies at retailers in the mid 2000's when I was getting official employment since I had turned 16. Best Buy's selection was huge, but my main stomping grounds was Media Play. Their anime selection was massive, and was the first place to sell Pocky (way before you could find them in the asian subsection at grocery stores)
Unfortunately, the 2008 housing crisis, on top of overexpansion pushed them to bankruptcy. Circuit City's demise followed very shortly after.
This is also when Redbox started hitting it's stride and Netflix was making a name for itself.

[professorwho]

Originally Posted by Kaiju no Kami

Why not? Isn't digital supposed to be the easiest thing to put into 4K? You just up the resolution on the computer and rerender the thing in 4K as opposed to having to completely scan in old animation cells and film prints, right?

Here's the thing... so, anime is made by animators drawing on paper, that paper (genga) is scanned digitally, then is composited with digital coloring, background layers, CG and whatever digitally at a chosen resolution. That resolution now is generally above 720p but below 1080p.

Now, the thing is... those digital files don't exist anymore in most cases. Sometime after production is all over, the files will be deleted, and all that's left is the final completed master at the chosen resolution it was composited at. So it's basically impossible to just export it at a higher resolution if those source files don't exist anymore.

[Member-571539]

Originally Posted by Kaiju no Kami

Okay, no offense to anyone, but only one post seemed to actually be part of the topic. The status of physical media and all of the conspiracy theories surrounding that have nothing to do with my topic. I just want to know what series are possible to see in 4K because they're able to be remastered. I know any series animated onto video tape can not be remastered, right?

My apologies for hijacking the discussion away from your original question.

Personally, I love the idea of physical media evolving into a collector's medium. I feel like anime has always been ahead of the curve in that respect. Hopefully more publishers (looking at you Funimation) will realize quality over quantity.

Anyway, I'm no expert, but I would love to see a proper 4K remastering of the Patlabor OVA & films, the Satoshi Kon oeuvre, Trigun, and the X movie.

[SillyG]

Originally Posted by Kaiju no Kami

Why not? Isn't digital supposed to be the easiest thing to put into 4K? You just up the resolution on the computer and rerender the thing in 4K as opposed to having to completely scan in old animation cells and film prints, right?

Yes and no.

With 3D animated films, they should be able to up the resolution and call it a day (maybe add some extra detail so that the models don't look cheap and/or like plastic at such high resolutions), which includes most of what is being produced in Hollywood today, YET... they still cheap out and upscale 2K masters for their UHD releases as they don't want to take the time/expense of rendering the animation natively at 4K (or higher) resolution. I believe Toy Story's Blu-ray releases were produced by going back to the original files from the 90s and rendering the footage at 2K, but these same masters were used for the more recent UHD Blu-ray releases.

As for 2D animation, the only animation that can easily be increased in resolution are those that are vector-animated (that is, animation produced with digitally-produced shapes, as opposed to scanned hand-drawn animation, which is limited to the resolution it was originally scanned at).

For example, if you have any Flash animations from back in the day, those that are produced using vector graphics will upscale beautifully to modern displays without any extra work whatsoever, but most professionally produced animation (at least for film/TV) is not produced in this manner and it may not be possible for them to be upscaled.

Similarly, 2D animation that has been shot/finished on film can also be rescanned at virtually any resolution (though it is debatable that resolutions over 4K for 2D animation is overkill; hell, I've spoken to people over the years that have said that HD is overkill for 2D animation ).

[Pyoko]

I don't think there are many, if any, digitally-produced shows that would benefit in any meaningful way from 4K UHD over a well-compressed BD. Unless they wanted to do HDR, but I don't really see that happening, or some neural-network upscaling like waifu2x suddenly became really, really good and usable.

No point with 4K for anything film-based either because they'd just DNR it to death anyway. That said Cowboy Bebop is due for a new scan, the HD master was never fantastic, not like the near-perfect Outlaw Star.

Originally Posted by professorwho

Now, the thing is... those digital files don't exist anymore in most cases. Sometime after production is all over, the files will be deleted, and all that's left is the final completed master at the chosen resolution it was composited at. So it's basically impossible to just export it at a higher resolution if those source files don't exist anymore.

I remember for the Rahxephon movie they recomposited all the TV scenes at a significantly higher resolution, but I don't know what the process was there. Maybe they already knew from the start what shots to keep high-res for the movie, or perhaps they even re-did all the genga digitalization.

[Kaiju no Kami]

Originally Posted by professorwho

Here's the thing... so, anime is made by animators drawing on paper, that paper (genga) is scanned digitally, then is composited with digital coloring, background layers, CG and whatever digitally at a chosen resolution. That resolution now is generally above 720p but below 1080p.

Now, the thing is... those digital files don't exist anymore in most cases. Sometime after production is all over, the files will be deleted, and all that's left is the final completed master at the chosen resolution it was composited at. So it's basically impossible to just export it at a higher resolution if those source files don't exist anymore.

That is so weird. Why would companies limit themselves then by doing it that way?

I get being ignorant when they did stuff on video tape, but by the time they started using digital animation they should have known about HD. I guess this continues to show why digital animation can never beat hand drawn.

CUriously, is the reason Noir is listed as HD Native because they did have the original assets to remaster it in 1080P?

[mysticwaterfall]

The same reason most films still use 2K special effects - it's faster , cheaper, and easier to do it that way.