Sam Raimi Promised Creative Control for SPIDEY 4

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Not sure if I buy the whole "the studio made me do it" b.s. Spider-Man 3 is no more or less eccentric than either of the first two movies. That Butler scene is just as lame as the moment in Spider-Man where the Green Goblin forces Aunt May to finish the Lord's Prayer. All three movies are cheeseball, don't know why exactly SM3 magnified fanboy ranting. I think the problem was that Peter and Mary showed their dark sides in this film, and this made them unattractive and unlikable for a spell, but I thought that was the whole point.

peter's darker side really did it for me with the ridiculous hair, clothes, and "attitude" you have to admit nothing was as silly as that in either of the first two movies...i think the way in which dark peter was written and the way in which mcguire chose to play him were both very ineffective.

the fight scene between peter and harry was just crap imo "i defended you in high school, now i'm gonna kick your little a$$" awesome dialogue

the scene with MJ and harry where they're in his kitchen....

there's just so many scenes that were horribly written imo. the movie just felt all over the place to me, whereas 1 and 2 both had much tighter-feeling scripts.

[assydingo]

Originally Posted by Sussudio

the emo side really did it for me. you have to admit nothing was as silly as that in either of the first two movies...

the fight scene between peter and harry was just crap imo "i defended you in high school, now i'm gonna kick your little a$$" awesome dialogue

the scene with MJ and harry where they're in his kitchen....

there's just so many scenes that were horribly written imo. the movie just felt all over the place to me, whereas 1 and 2 both had much tighter-feeling scripts.

I don't get people and the "emo" thing. He has emo hair. That is the full extent of the "emo" part of the movie. That's all. He acts like a confident *******, not emo. He doesn't even dress emo.

Nor do I get how MJ and Harry dancing while cooking was somehow bad.

I almost get the feeling dancing makes people uncomfortable.

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by assydingo

I don't get people and the "emo" thing. He has emo hair. That is the full extent of the "emo" part of the movie. That's all. He acts like a confident *******, not emo. He doesn't even dress emo.

Nor do I get how MJ and Harry dancing while cooking was somehow bad.

I almost get the feeling dancing makes people uncomfortable.

you are correct, i shouldn't say emo. but his hairstyle coupled with dressing in dark clothes seemed very emo-ish to me. but i dont want to offend anyone my terminology so let me just say that his darker side was more silly than serious to me and i didn't think that was a good thing.

the "dancing" did not make me uncomfortable ...i thought it was silly above everything else. this is just my opinion. i didn't think the lighter moments of the movie blended well with the darker ones. i think the ideas for the movie were fantastic, but they were horribly executed and i don't just mean the many villains.

[mcx79]

the biggest problem with spiderman 3 for me was when I left the theater I felt cheated out of my favorite Spidey villain. I was so looking forward to spiderman vs venom and there was barely any of it at all. I was able to look past all the rest of the stuff because I knew I was going to see Venom, but when the film ended..... It was such a downer. It was like Darth Maul for me. What a fantastic villain and you kill him off in his first great battle?? Why not give me more of this character?

I only hope they can someway reinvent Venom back into this film saga, but I am not sure they can now.

[Beast]

I don't think he ever had no creative control on Spider-Man 3.

If you watch the extras on Spidey 3, Avi Arad just told Raimi that since this was likely going to be Raimi's last Spider-Man film, and possibly the last Spider-Man film period, that he somewhat owed it to the fans to include the popular Venom character. Which Sam Raimi finally agreed to doing, scrapping the original plans for Spidey 3. Whether they strong armed him or not, who knows. I doubt anyone is going to admit to that either way.

I do think Raimi's original plans for Spider-Man 3 would have been way better though. As many know, he planned for Sandman and Vulture, who would have broken out of jail together. I'm sure they still could have included the symbiote and black costume, just keep the entire storyline... but just leave Brock/Venom coming after Spidey for Spidey IV. It would have been a great cliffhanger, but again... at the time Spidey III looked to be the last one.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by matthieuxdetoux

I just hope he includes a "cool" villain like Lizard or Mysterio, that would be awesome. Venom was good for the 2 minutes he was in the third film. They could really go all out with a Venom/Carnage story, but that wouldn't be kosher for general audiences.

Plus Venom and Carnage are terrible characters.

I agree that they should finally do Lizard. Especially since they've been building it up for 3 movies now. I think if they go with 2 villains, make them compatible ones. I still say Lizard and Kraven the Hunter would be the best bet. And at least make sense in the same film. Have Lizard's transformation and rampage as the big opener to the film. And then you have Kraven come in hunting Lizard. Which puts Peter caught between the pair. Cause he's gotta stop/save Lizard/Dr. Connors, while also fighting Kraven to make sure that he doesn't kill him.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Wolverine1980

Actually my main complaint with the first two was Maguire and Dunst. Maguire is a scrawny dork, Peter Parker looks more like Clark Kent when he's incognito. Not to mention Mary Jane Watson is supposed to be strikingly beautiful and that's simply not Kirsten Dunst...

Um... no. He's always been a scrawny dork.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Darkhawk9587

This is good news. Remember, it was MARVEL and Sony who pushed Raimi to put Venom in the third one, instead of waiting for a later installment. That is partially the reason that the third one wasn't as good in substance material as the previous two, IMO. It turned the story into a convoluted mess.

If they would have just had the climax without Venom and cliffhanger it, the film would have been much stronger overall.

But people still would have bashed it because they either don't understand or can't get over other aspects. People throw around complaints about the dancing or "emo" hair. I really want to know how they would have expected this Peter to act. Yeah, they played up the dancing- possibly too much- but the fundamental idea behind it is entirely grounded in reason. Peter is a dork, give him undue artificial confidence/cockiness and that's what you're gonna get.

There are things worthy of disdain in the film, but people tend to gloss over most of the good reasons. People complain all the time about the dancing, but where are the complaints about the retcon to Uncle Ben's death? Where are the complaints about the downplayed spider design on Venom's chest or the uninteresting take on the Black symbiote costume? Where are the complaints of Sandman's motivation at the end making no sense? In fact, the only good complaint that is thrown around a lot is the way they bungled Venom by not doing him justice and then killing him off right away.

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

If they would have just had the climax without Venom and cliffhanger it, the film would have been much stronger overall.

But people still would have bashed it because they either don't understand or can't get over other aspects. People throw around complaints about the dancing or "emo" hair. I really want to know how they would have expected this Peter to act. Yeah, they played up the dancing- possibly too much- but the fundamental idea behind it is entirely grounded in reason. Peter is a dork, give him undue artificial confidence/cockiness and that's what you're gonna get.

There are things worthy of disdain in the film, but people tend to gloss over most of the good reasons. People complain all the time about the dancing, but where are the complaints about the retcon to Uncle Ben's death? Where are the complaints about the downplayed spider design on Venom's chest or the uninteresting take on the Black symbiote costume? Where are the complaints of Sandman's motivation at the end making no sense? In fact, the only good complaint that is thrown around a lot is the way they bungled Venom by not doing him justice and then killing him off right away.

you do make some very good points, but keep in mind everyone's complaints about the movie will be different and not everyone watches the movie with the same eyes. people are going to be bothered by different things, and the dancing obviously has stood out the most when people talk about what they don't like. but the one point that i bolded in your argument has bugged me as well. he spends nearly the entire movie after spider-man trying to kill him, and then suddenly WAIT...stop..."i'm sorry, i didn't mean for this to happen." spidey: oh, ok, well i forgive you. "ok well i'm gonna go now". spidey: coool, later. [sandman disappears] you are probably referring to something else in regards to his motivations, but i just didn't get how everything did a complete 180 all of a sudden. felt very forced.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

what is wrong with tobey and kristen? and the cgi is not cheap looking. that's been one of the selling points from day one. why do you even think that?

They just didn't provide very good performances, especially in 3.

As for the CGI, maybe for you but not for me. The way they did it, just didn't flow well. To me it looked cheap and took me out of the experience, it wasn't believable at all more like a cartoon spliced into a real life movie. Granted 3 looked better than the first two but then the acting and script was so awful it didn't matter.

Like I said, I'd prefer a reboot with new cast, director, etc.

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Like I said, I'd prefer a reboot with new cast, director, etc.

bring back james cameron!!

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Monkey

They just didn't provide very good performances, especially in 3.

As for the CGI, maybe for you but not for me. The way they did it, just didn't flow well. To me it looked cheap and took me out of the experience, it wasn't believable at all more like a cartoon spliced into a real life movie. Granted 3 looked better than the first two but then the acting and script was so awful it didn't matter.

Like I said, I'd prefer a reboot with new cast, director, etc.

Yeah I thought their performances were kind of bad and the movie was campy but Spider-Man is supposed to be campy. I liked how the best friends joined forces in the end to do the right thing together, actually teared up a bit when Harry died.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Wolverine1980

Yeah I thought their performances were kind of bad and the movie was campy but Spider-Man is supposed to be campy. I liked how the best friends joined forces in the end to do the right thing together, actually teared up a bit when Harry died.

Yeah, Harry's story from Spider-Man 1 to Spider-Man 3 was one of the best aspects of the films.

[fighthefutureofhd]

i don't get the cheeseball comments. sure spider man is cheeseball at times himself, but the whole thing really isn't cheeseball. it's more corny than anything else. spider man was always wisecracking and making puns. as for the effects, they're some of the best in the business. in fact when spider man came out all people could talk about were the effects. and the cinematography related to the effects. that was one of the highlights of the movie.

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

i don't get the cheeseball comments. sure spider man is cheeseball at times himself, but the whole thing really isn't cheeseball. it's more corny than anything else. spider man was always wisecracking and making puns. as for the effects, they're some of the best in the business. in fact when spider man came out all people could talk about were the effects. and the cinematography related to the effects. that was one of the highlights of the movie.

indeed...both 1 and 2 were nominated for visual effects oscars...not that the oscars are everything, but it still means they were obviously held in high regard

[assydingo]

Originally Posted by Sussudio

you are correct, i shouldn't say emo. but his hairstyle coupled with dressing in dark clothes seemed very emo-ish to me. but i dont want to offend anyone my terminology so let me just say that his darker side was more silly than serious to me and i didn't think that was a good thing.

the "dancing" did not make me uncomfortable ...i thought it was silly above everything else. this is just my opinion. i didn't think the lighter moments of the movie blended well with the darker ones. i think the ideas for the movie were fantastic, but they were horribly executed and i don't just mean the many villains.

It just seems weird to me. Black can be associated with cool and since he felt confident it didn't seem weird to be wearing black and having black hair. Not to mention his darker side was associated with his black outfit.

I agree with Afrobean. Those things got to me. To be honest though, that the characters went through so much in this movie made it at least as strong as the first two.

[GreenScar]

I'm not a huge fan of Raimi to begin with. I thought his best film was Spider-man 2.

Spider-man 3 was lazy film making from the get go. It was if you make it they will come. Tobey was in the worst shape out of the three and was a stark contrast to Chris Daniels (the guy who wears the suit with the mask on). Remember the rolls when Tobey sits on the roof to empty his boot of the sand. I know it's picky, but it hurts the flow. When in the first two movies they blended much better.

The best thing that could happen to Spider-man 4 was probably The Dark Knight. I hope it served to refocus everyone involved to put their best foot forward. If Raimi gets full control, then we'll know who to blame or applaud depending on how it turns out.

[fighthefutureofhd]

no worse than bruce banner in the incredible hulk. he looked nothing like he did in hulk.

[GreenScar]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

no worse than bruce banner in the incredible hulk. he looked nothing like he did in hulk.

I agree. Norton was much too interesting to play Banner.

[fighthefutureofhd]

who's norton?