Some Questions from an Audio Newbie...

[brainofj72]

Okay, so I’m gonna be moving soon and I will finally have the space and means to upgrade to a surround sound system. I’ve been a physical media collector and home theater junkie for pretty much my whole life, but I’ve always been a PQ guy and have never really been in the right position to jump into surround like I wanted to, so now that that’s happening I have to say I’m finding it all very confusing and overwhelming, haha. So I guess I just have a couple basic questions to get started:

1. What is the minimum I should be prepared to pay for a 7.1.4 Atmos system? Including the receiver, subwoofer, and all the speakers.

2. I’m having trouble finding overhead speaker options. Not interested in the ones that project sound off the ceiling - I want mounted overheads, but not in-ceiling. Does such a thing exist?

Please be kind - this is all new to me so I apologize if these are dumb questions.

[oddbox83]

Wow, jumping straight in at 7.1.4?

[brainofj72]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Wow, jumping straight in at 7.1.4?

Go big or go home, right? If I’m gonna do it, I wanna DO IT, you know?

[oddbox83]

No argument from me, but even I don't have that much and I'm a gear snob.

I know when I was looking around when I was starting with Atmos, there's really not that much choice out there right now. I went for upfirers, but that's my limitation. The beauty of a separate system if you configure it however you can or want.

[CreasyBear]

Unless you have thousands of dollars to do it right, I would start with 3.1 or 5.1 and get the best speakers you can for your budget and expand from there. I honestly feel like good bipolar surround speakers, properly mounted in the right spot in the room, can give you the sense of height that makes Atmos irrelevant.

[brainofj72]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Unless you have thousands of dollars to do it right, I would start with 3.1 or 5.1 and get the best speakers you can for your budget and expand from there. I honestly feel like good bipolar surround speakers, properly mounted in the right spot in the room, can give you the sense of height that makes Atmos irrelevant.

How many thousands are we talking? I figured it would cost me at a minimum $2000-$4000 for just a basic Atmos setup but it’s hard to get concrete info on this stuff. There’s absolutely no way I would go with anything less than 5.1, but being all in on 4K tech I’d really like to be Atmos-capable.

[oddbox83]

If that's your budget then, IMO, you can get a stunning setup for that price.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Unless you have thousands of dollars to do it right, I would start with 3.1 or 5.1 and get the best speakers you can for your budget and expand from there. I honestly feel like good bipolar surround speakers, properly mounted in the right spot in the room, can give you the sense of height that makes Atmos irrelevant.

I do agree it always best to start with the best you can afford, however, the idea of a bipolar speaker placed appropriately can make Atmos irrelevant is highly inaccurate. A pair of bipolar surrounds cannot duplicate an object based audio setup. Just because you have sound up top does not mean it can replace the immersive experience of a properly setup Atmos system. Not even close.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

How many thousands are we talking? I figured it would cost me at a minimum $2000-$4000 for just a basic Atmos setup but it’s hard to get concrete info on this stuff. There’s absolutely no way I would go with anything less than 5.1, but being all in on 4K tech I’d really like to be Atmos-capable.

It depends upon your room and what you are looking to do with respect to the amount of speakers. Are you looking to do 5.1.2, 7.1.2, 7.1.4, or have the ability to start with one of those and expand down the road? You can get a decent Denon Atmos receiver for not a lot of money (just to pick a brand as there are others), but you need to figure out the room first and how you can place speakers where they need to be. Receiver is next based on how many now, and if you want the opportunity to add more. Speakers and subs are kind of easy, but unfortunately you cannot always audition a brand of speakers before you buy as the retail landscape is very different now.

[oddbox83]

OK, so some amateur enthusiast advice from me now I've had a think.

Get a good receiver that can handle the number of channels you ultimately want.

Get a set of matched (doesn't have to be a bundled "set" as such) speakers for your core 7.1 layout with a centre speaker of the same range, or at least same brand and frequency response.

Get the appropriate length of speaker cable, don't get something crap like bell wire but don't pay for snake oil either.

Sub or subs of your choice. Powered, not passive. If position is optimal, you might just need the one. If not, and you have the room, get two. You're not looking for a more powerful bass in doing so, but a more precise one.

Then your Atmos speakers, which you don't have to add all at once with the above. Don't worry so much about matching these with the other speakers, just make sure you match them with each other. Then make sure the whole is calibrated, automatically or manually. You can do it automatically, then manually correct crossovers as they can be a bit off for Atmos speakers. I found this article useful for setting crossovers manually, something I've only very recently done as opposed to letting automatic tools like Audyssey do it all. https://www.svsound.com/blogs/subwoo...or-a-subwoofer

[brainofj72]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

OK, so some amateur enthusiast advice from me now I've had a think.

Get a good receiver that can handle the number of channels you ultimately want.

Get a set of matched (doesn't have to be a bundled "set" as such) speakers for your core 7.1 layout with a centre speaker of the same range, or at least same brand and frequency response.

Get the appropriate length of speaker cable, don't get something crap like bell wire but don't pay for snake oil either.

Sub or subs of your choice.

Then your Atmos speakers, which you don't have to add all at once with the above. Don't worry so much about matching these with the other speakers, just make sure you match them with each other. Then make sure the whole is calibrated, automatically or manually. You can do it automatically, then manually correct crossovers as they can be a bit off for Atmos speakers. I found this article useful for setting crossovers manually, something I've only very recently done as opposed to letting automatic tools like Audyssey do it all. https://www.svsound.com/blogs/subwoo...or-a-subwoofer

Thank you!

Should I not be so quick to dismiss upfiring height speakers? It seems so hard for me to believe that’s really gonna work well but since I’ve never had a chance to demo them I guess I don’t actually know.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

Thank you!

Should I not be so quick to dismiss upfiring height speakers? It seems so hard for me to believe that’s really gonna work well but since I’ve never had a chance to demo them I guess I don’t actually know.

I don't get obvious directional top sounds as such, but it still creates the bubble of sound, just a bit more diffuse (which actually helps disguise the fact I don't have rear Atmos). But I was told I wasn't allowed to mount speakers everywhere so they do me! Manually correction is slightly more important with these, as automatic tools often don't detect their distance and crossover properly.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

Thank you!

Should I not be so quick to dismiss upfiring height speakers? It seems so hard for me to believe that’s really gonna work well but since I’ve never had a chance to demo them I guess I don’t actually know.

If you can run cables and mount speakers where they should be, that will be the way to go. Upfiring have varying degrees of effectiveness depending on placement, angle, and most importantly, the ceiling.

[brainofj72]

Originally Posted by gotmule

If you can run cables and mount speakers where they should be, that will be the way to go. Upfiring have varying degrees of effectiveness depending on placement, angle, and most importantly, the ceiling.

That’s definitely what I want to do and it shouldn’t be any problem in my space. However I still can’t seem to find any height speakers that aren’t in-ceiling...

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

That’s definitely what I want to do and it shouldn’t be any problem in my space. However I still can’t seem to find any height speakers that aren’t in-ceiling...

Aesthetics play into this decision a lot. If it is a dedicated theater, you could get by with small(ish) book shelf speakers mounted on brackets aimed at the listening position. I have also seen outdoor speakers that are white used for this purpose as well, since they blend into the ceiling better. If it is a family room, and you don’t want to see speakers hanging off your ceiling, the in ceiling option is a popular choice. There are ceiling speakers that can angle or pivot a bit which help with sound dispersion which is a plus.

My room is a dedicated room with a black ceiling, so having a bunch of bookshelf size speakers up there is not a drawback at all.

[brainofj72]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Aesthetics play into this decision a lot. If it is a dedicated theater, you could get by with small(ish) book shelf speakers mounted on brackets aimed at the listening position. I have also seen outdoor speakers that are white used for this purpose as well, since they blend into the ceiling better. If it is a family room, and you don’t want to see speakers hanging off your ceiling, the in ceiling option is a popular choice. There are ceiling speakers that can angle or pivot a bit which help with sound dispersion which is a plus.

My room is a dedicated room with a black ceiling, so having a bunch of bookshelf size speakers up there is not a drawback at all.

Oh I can just use bookshelf speakers as height channels? That is good to know.

This will all be in my living room, not a dedicated theater, but aesthetically I love the look of home theater gear and I’m gonna make it look real nice so the aesthetics of mounting aren’t a problem for me. I don’t want to deal with in-ceiling installation.

[CompleteCount]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

Oh I can just use bookshelf speakers as height channels? That is good to know.

Yep, as long as you secure them well enough (using VERY good brackets or suspending them via chains) you can use standard speakers.

It certainly helps when matching timbre, and I have been doing so for a couple of years now with no problems.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

Oh I can just use bookshelf speakers as height channels? That is good to know.

This will all be in my living room, not a dedicated theater, but aesthetically I love the look of home theater gear and I’m gonna make it look real nice so the aesthetics of mounting aren’t a problem for me. I don’t want to deal with in-ceiling installation.

Keep us up to date with where you land. Happy hunting!

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I do agree it always best to start with the best you can afford, however, the idea of a bipolar speaker placed appropriately can make Atmos irrelevant is highly inaccurate. A pair of bipolar surrounds cannot duplicate an object based audio setup. Just because you have sound up top does not mean it can replace the immersive experience of a properly setup Atmos system. Not even close.

I disagree, because I had upfiring Atmos and honestly felt like I got more height out of the sound with my bipolar Klipsch placed properly on the wall 2 feet above ear level than I did with the upfiring Atmos speakers. But I generally find Atmos to be kind of irrelevant to begin with. Maybe it's useful in a large auditorium, but in a normal living room or theater room, feels a bit overkill. People worry too much about Atmos when they should worry about quality 5.1/7.1 equipment and smart speaker placement.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

How many thousands are we talking? I figured it would cost me at a minimum $2000-$4000 for just a basic Atmos setup but it’s hard to get concrete info on this stuff. There’s absolutely no way I would go with anything less than 5.1, but being all in on 4K tech I’d really like to be Atmos-capable.

It depends on how serious you are, how big your room is, etc. My current 5.1 system cost about nearly $3,000 just for the receiver, speakers, and subwoofer and it's by no means extravagant. That's why I say start with 3.1 or 5.1 and add on later when you can afford it. Spending $2,000 on a 3.1 or 5.1 system, you're going to get a lot more out of it than if you spend $2,000 on an entire Atmos system. The bulk of your money should be spent on the main channels, namely the front LCR channels and the subwoofer (3.1).