Joker (2019) VS The Dark Knight (2008)

[kylor]

Which one will come out on top? Vote now!

[Winslow Leach]

Joker

[imsounoriginal]

Both are excellent, but chose Dark Knight.

[L.J.]

Both are good but like The Dark Knight better. Joker feels like The Dark Knights joker origin.

[The Debts]

Dark Knight because it actually can cash the checks it's laying down that Joker can't. Oh and it had actual narrative momentum, a coherent philosophy, properly rips off its inspiration and isn't completely self serious.

[ben6543]

Joker

[ArrestedDevelopment]

TDK.

Joker was a disappointment.

[Cremildo]

I'm truly hard-pressed to think of any way that Dark Knight isn't the better film.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

I'm truly hard-pressed to think of any way that Dark Knight isn't the better film.

Joker is superior in pretty much every conceivable way.

[StarWarsIsAwesome123]

TDK, though Joker is great.

[DR Herbert West]

Didn't really like it, but Joker.

[h0h0x]

The Dark Knight, easily.

[darkness2918]

I loved both a lot but The Dark Knight slightly comes out on top for me.

[The Debts]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Joker is superior in pretty much every conceivable way.

How so?

[drush9999]

Joker easily, it's closer to how I perceive the Batman universe from the comics anyway. Besides Phoenix is the best Joker on film since Nicholson.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by The Debts

How so?

Better writing, better acting, better music, better cinematography, etc, etc...

[The Debts]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Better writing, better acting, better music, better cinematography, etc, etc...

I'll admit that it is more visually vibrant than TDK and the music is quite good but gotta stop you there on the writing; Joker has this bad tendency to introduce really interesting world building ideas and does nothing with them, confusing it's own underwrittenness for ambiguity.

Case in point: The film suggests that Arhtur Fleck might be related to the Waynes. Great plot point! And what does the movie do with it? Just kind of throws it out the window for a cheap twist that goes nowhere. Or how it makes a big deal out of the super rats but we never actually see those things. Or how it throws all of these signifiers of allusions to things like antifa and class divide but doesn't go beyond just saying "THIS IS BAD". Or how Todd Phillips can't just let good moments be themselves before either letting them drag out too long or cutting them too quickly.

It's made all the more frustrating because Phoenix is terrific but I wish a more nastier filmmaker had their hand on this sort of thing than Phillips. Somebody like S. Craig Zahler would have made it into a movie that was genuinely revolting and provocative instead of something that just tested my patience more than anything else.

[Mister_Kidd]

Dark Knight by a mile. Joker is a fantastic lead performance and little else.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by The Debts

I'll admit that it is more visually vibrant than TDK and the music is quite good but gotta stop you there on the writing; Joker has this bad tendency to introduce really interesting world building ideas and does nothing with them, confusing it's own underwrittenness for ambiguity.

Case in point: The film suggests that Arhtur Fleck might be related to the Waynes. Great plot point! And what does the movie do with it? Just kind of throws it out the window for a cheap twist that goes nowhere. Or how it makes a big deal out of the super rats but we never actually see those things. Or how it throws all of these signifiers of allusions to things like antifa and class divide but doesn't go beyond just saying "THIS IS BAD". Or how Todd Phillips can't just let good moments be themselves before either letting them drag out too long or cutting them too quickly.

It's made all the more frustrating because Phoenix is terrific but I wish a more nastier filmmaker had their hand on this sort of thing than Phillips. Somebody like S. Craig Zahler would have made it into a movie that was genuinely revolting and provocative instead of something that just tested my patience more than anything else.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, Debt baby. I'll take the film's 'underwrittenness' over the godawful writing in The Dark Knight any day.

[The Debts]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

We'll just have to agree to disagree, Debt baby. I'll take the film's 'underwrittness' for the godawful writing in The Dark Knight any day.

Yeah that was a word I made up lol. But at least it's a civil disagreement.