Panasonic 24p defect?

[jc480]

Panasonic has this to say about their ability to support 24p...

Movies are shot at 24 frames per second. Unfortunately, TVs operating at 60Hz can only refresh 20 times per second, which means they must drop every fifth frame. With its 2008 Viera PZ85, PZ800, and PZ850 models, Panasonic introduces 24p native resolution, which means 24 frame per second movie content is reproduced frame for frame exactly, making for true-to-source smoothness of motion.

Everything I read says that, if you try and run your Panasonic to support 24p, you will get the legendary flicker?

Can someone explain what I'm missing? I'm considering the TH58PZ800U and I'd hate to spend the money only to see flickering when watching a movie...especially when Panasonic says they support 24p mode

[meloveHD]

Unfortunately the 24p mode on these sets runs at 48Hz and indeed causes flicker and sadly there's noting that can be done about that. The new V10 and Z1 models coming later this summer will use 96Hz and maybe they will be flicker-free, but as far as I've read no one has gotten a hands on with one of them to test it out. I was about to pull the trigger on the G10 with 48Hz 24p mode until i saw it's flicker :/

Many people argue that the flicker is an intended cinema look, which could be true, but it just feels a lot different when you're watching it at home rather than a huge screen 80 feet away from you. For me, it just felt unnatural and distracting.

The good news is you can simply turn it off and watch at 60Hz, flicker-free! But if the 24p mode is high on your list of priorities, I'd wait to see the V10 and Z1.

[ijokr]

i have a 42pz85u and I always use the 24p mode and I´ve never seen flicker except in american psycho. Now, maybe I´m not seeing it but the truth is that I´m very picky when it comes to picture quality and since other reviews state that the panasonic´s flicker makes it unwatchable, then I don´t think that happens on mine. In american psycho I can see the black small sort of like "scratches" that you see in the movie theaters, since that´s the only movie I´ve noticed, I thought it was on purpose

[jc480]

Thanks for the explanation.

Isn't the purpose of 24p mode to render that extra frame to reduce motion blur or improve visual clarity?

Going to 60hz will drop the extra frame which means the TV won't be in 24p mode...which makes this feature set pointless...unless I'm missing something?

Does a 24p movie in 60hz mode look just as good?

[ijokr]

Does a 24p movie in 60hz mode look just as good?

depends on you, 24p doesn´t look better than 60hz, it just looks like the theaters. It gives you the feeling and look of the movies that you get at a theater (of course with blu-ray quality) 60hz it´s actually better at fast action scenes but it´s not as true as a 24p in a movie since processing is involved. A good example that I once heard is those NFL film shows about older games, you can tell the difference when you´re watching a NFL film replay than a live game. While for sports 60hz looks better, in films most of the people prefer the film look or it will look more of like a soap opera.

[Peteara]

Originally Posted by ijokr

i have a 42pz85u and I always use the 24p mode and I´ve never seen flicker except in american psycho. Now, maybe I´m not seeing it but the truth is that I´m very picky when it comes to picture quality and since other reviews state that the panasonic´s flicker makes it unwatchable, then I don´t think that happens on mine. In american psycho I can see the black small sort of like "scratches" that you see in the movie theaters, since that´s the only movie I´ve noticed, I thought it was on purpose

I also have the 42PZ85U, and on my PS3, I've got the 24P setting on "auto" mode...if I change it, will I really notice a difference? I heard my TV doesn't truly display 24P correctly, so I never bothered messing with it. Plus, I can't recall an option in my TV menu for 24P functionality.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by jc480

Thanks for the explanation.

Isn't the purpose of 24p mode to render that extra frame to reduce motion blur or improve visual clarity?

Going to 60hz will drop the extra frame which means the TV won't be in 24p mode...which makes this feature set pointless...unless I'm missing something?

Does a 24p movie in 60hz mode look just as good?

I don't think your average person could tell the difference between 60Hz & 24Hz native playback. Video files can . One will argue that the "24p mode" is marketing hype... You should still have a beautiful picture on the G10 regardless of the mode selected.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by Peteara

I also have the 42PZ85U, and on my PS3, I've got the 24P setting on "auto" mode...if I change it, will I really notice a difference? I heard my TV doesn't truly display 24P correctly, so I never bothered messing with it. Plus, I can't recall an option in my TV menu for 24P functionality.

The 85u accepts 1080p24, but does not natively reproduce it. (48Hz,72Hz,96Hz)

[ijokr]

Originally Posted by Peteara

I also have the 42PZ85U, and on my PS3, I've got the 24P setting on "auto" mode...if I change it, will I really notice a difference? I heard my TV doesn't truly display 24P correctly, so I never bothered messing with it. Plus, I can't recall an option in my TV menu for 24P functionality.

Well try both to look for a difference. I don´t think it´s easy to tell, actually since I had the tv and my blu-ray player I´ve only used 24p mode. The "flicker" I talked about in american psycho doesn´t make it unwatchable at all, it´s just like the movies that´s why I don´t think is a flaw. The option menu would be only in the blu-ray player as I recall......by the way love the avatar

[ijokr]

Originally Posted by Sonny

I don't think your average person could tell the difference between 60Hz & 24Hz native playback. Video files can . One will argue that the "24p mode" is marketing hype... You should still have a beautiful picture on the G10 regardless of the mode selected.

true, we have seen very misused information when it comes to tvs in the later years, most of it marketing hypes. Like Sonny said, you will still get a beautiful picture in the G10 regarding 24p. More important than 24p is calibration.

[jc480]

Good info, thanks guys.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by meloveHD

The new V10 and Z1 models coming later this summer will use 76Hz and maybe they will be flicker-free, but as far as I've read no one has gotten a hands on with one of them to test it out.

96Hz

[Rob J in WNY]

So the Pannys won't do a 3:2 pulldown for 24p material at 60Hz? At least with 3:2 pulldown, you don't lose any frames, although you may notice some judder.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

So the Pannys won't do a 3:2 pulldown for 24p material at 60Hz? At least with 3:2 pulldown, you don't lose any frames, although you may notice some judder.

Yes, they do. That's how 24p is displayed on all 60Hz sets.

[Rob J in WNY]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Yes, they do. That's how 24p is displayed on all 60Hz sets.

Okay, I get it. The OP was quoting Panny's reference to TVs which DON'T perform any "pulldown" process to 24p material.

[ijokr]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Okay, I get it. The OP was quoting Panny's reference to TVs which DON'T perform any "pulldown" process to 24p material.

well. they do just not very well according to reviews. Few tvs pass this test correctly

[lghaze42]

Originally Posted by jc480

Panasonic has this to say about their ability to support 24p...

Movies are shot at 24 frames per second. Unfortunately, TVs operating at 60Hz can only refresh 20 times per second, which means they must drop every fifth frame. With its 2008 Viera PZ85, PZ800, and PZ850 models, Panasonic introduces 24p native resolution, which means 24 frame per second movie content is reproduced frame for frame exactly, making for true-to-source smoothness of motion.

Everything I read says that, if you try and run your Panasonic to support 24p, you will get the legendary flicker?

Can someone explain what I'm missing? I'm considering the TH58PZ800U and I'd hate to spend the money only to see flickering when watching a movie...especially when Panasonic says they support 24p mode

As I have stated before I don't have a flicker problem on my 800u.I can't say if it is because I purchased my set in January and it was made in December meaning they may have corrected the problem on newer sets,a problem on some sets and not others,or because I have a BD30 feeding into a Panasonic Sa-BX500 receiver designed to work with the set.Either way I am tired of hearing this "unwatchable" stuff.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ijokr

well. they do just not very well according to reviews. Few tvs pass this test correctly

The G10's passed all tests that HD Guru threw at them including 3:2 tests.

[ijokr]

Originally Posted by lghaze42

As I have stated before I don't have a flicker problem on my 800u.I can't say if it is because I purchased my set in January and it was made in December meaning they may have corrected the problem on newer sets,a problem on some sets and not others,or because I have a BD30 feeding into a Panasonic Sa-BX500 receiver designed to work with the set.Either way I am tired of hearing this "unwatchable" stuff.

Second that.
Yeah, I also bought my set on January so maybe they fixed it or some sort. I don´t have the panny bd player, I have the sony 350 so I don´think that´s what helps. I can´t imagine how "unwatchable" it may be. I think its a big exaggeration.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ijokr

Second that.
Yeah, I also bought my set on January so maybe they fixed it or some sort. I don´t have the panny bd player, I have the sony 350 so I don´think that´s what helps. I can´t imagine how "unwatchable" it may be. I think its a big exaggeration.

All the reviews that mentioned the flicker issue said it only occurred when the Panasonic was in the 48HZ setting when receiving a 1080p/24 signal. Most people do not own a BLU-RAY player yet and they will leave the Panasonic plasma display menu set to the default 60HZ setting. Even if the Panasonic is set to 48HZ it will still always display 60HZ unless the BLU-RAY player is outputting 1080p/24. If the BLU-RAY player is outputting 1080p/24 and the Panasonic display is set to 48HZ then the display will do a true 48HZ output instead of a 60HZ output.

The Sony BDP-S350 has a 24P blue light on the front of the player when it is outputting 1080p/24. If the Sony BDP-S350 24P light is not lit up then the player is outputting 60HZ instead of 24HZ. Then the Panasonic needs to manually be turned on to 48HZ in the menu for a 48HZ output (60HZ adds 3:2 pulldown judder for 1080P/24 signals). On top of that some A/V surround receivers do not support 1080p/24 and only accept 1080p/60 or internally convert the video output to 60HZ.