Interconnect cables, Speaker cables & Power Cords.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'd like to open up a discussion whereby everyone can opine about their experience and their belief as to whether upgrading these connections make a difference, and are indeed worthwhile consideratons or not.

There are only 2 things I ask when posting:

1. If you have personal experience with either/both of these connection changes, please elaborate as best as you can about the impact it had on your system.

2. If you have NO experience with implementing any of these changes, please keep your responses civil and preferably in the form of a question or as an information gathering exercise.

Remember as well that everyone's system is different and the room acoustics we each live with varies as immensely as our membership base.

John

[Trix]

My only relevant experience does not relate necessarily to improving sound, but it's a build quality issue that, in my mind, is just as important.

To save a bit of my decency, let me start with a disclaimer; I once was young and foolish enough to buy into the Monster hype. When I bought my first progressive scan DVD player, I paid more for the accompanying component and stereo audio cables than I paid for the player. However, I've grown, and the only reason 90% of the cabling in my system right now is Monster is due to the fact that I've always managed to find cables that I could buy for very cheap given the amount of time they had been held. So basically, monoprice prices, for Monster cables. What's not to love?

Well, what's not to love is when monoprice cables have better build quality. I have a 1M (~4 ft) Monster 1000 optical cable (well, I also have a 2M (~8ft), but that one hasn't caused any problems yet), and from the very first time I used it with my then DVD player, I was "delighted" to discover that the plastic connector wasns't glued to the sleeve. So, basically, whenever I try to pull the cable out, the square plastic connector stays in, while the rest of the cable comes out. I've not bothered replacing it, since the cable basically just sits still in my cabinet, but when I moved the cable from my DVD player to my cable box, well, now it's just beyond repair, and I think I'll have to have it replaced.

So the basic moral of the story, getting back to the point, is that beyond deciding whether or not specific interconnects can give you better quality, I've discovered that it's just as important to examine build quality, regardless of the manufacturer. Note that I don't expect any company other than Monster would design a connector this way (you can read about what it's supposed to do from their website), and subsequently ruin a decent interconnect, but basically, build quality should be examined very carefully. Basically, if I had paid 150$ for this cable, which was MSRP at some point, I would be fuming; given that I paid 15$, and that the cable is guaranteed for life, it's more an annoyance.

Anyways, I'm sorry if this is slightly off topic from what was intended, but, I just thought I'd share this, on the off chance that someone comes into the thread to praise the greatness of Monster.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hi Trix,

I think your point about build-quality is extremely important and should definately be taken into consideration. It is after all why we decide to upgrade.

On the matter of Monoprice, and I may get flack for this, I personally wouldn't consider buying either interconnect or speaker cable from them. The jury is still out on HDMI cables however, as I've not seen any arguments against them. Having said that, if I needed an additional HDMI cable, I wouldn't hesitate to order from them.

John

[CasualKiller]

I used to think that speaker cable was just speaker cable, then a local audio shop gave me a pair of these Analysis Plus cables to demo at home. I was absolutely blown away.

Right off the bat I noticed more detail in both the high and low end freq's, and the sound stage was so clean it had a 3d feel to it.

Here is a link to their design pages and they explain the science behind their cables.

http://www.analysis-plus.com/design_main.html

Not for people on a tight budget, it cost me 420.00 USD to do my front 3 speakers, but it was worth every penny.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by CasualKiller

I used to think that speaker cable was just speaker cable, then a local audio shop gave me a pair of these Analysis Plus cables to demo at home. I was absolutely blown away.

Right off the bat I noticed more detail in both the high and low end freq's, and the sound stage was so clean it had a 3d feel to it.

Here is a link to their design pages and they explain the science behind their cables.

http://www.analysis-plus.com/design_main.html

Not for people on a tight budget, it cost me 420.00 USD to do my front 3 speakers, but it was worth every penny.

Hi CK!

Now if only you still had your RM 5 turntable! I miss mine (Revolver Rebel Red) too buddy! Tableless for a few months now and it's killing me!

Have you toyed with interconnect cable changes at all?

John

[CasualKiller]

I did also pick up the "Black Digital" coax cable, however I can't say for certain if it makes a huge difference as I've never compared it to a cheaper cable.

And yes I miss my TT but things have been picking up at work again and there's talk that the summer bonus is still going through so you just never know...

[Gremal]

A long time ago I gravitated toward flat cable. Nordost is probably the best but I opted for the Alpha Core Goertz, which I've been using ever since. I recommend checking it out before splurging on cable that may be even more expensive. I also use the silver saphire interconnects from the same company.

The cables were developed by a Norwegian sound engineer. Why do such good sound engineers come from Norway?

http://www.goertzaudio.com/

[Intamin]

I buy into interconnects making a difference. I switched from monoprice rca's to audioquest and blue jean cable interconnects and could easily hear a difference. I don't know what specifically it was, but it sounded better, so I was happy. As far as speaker cables go, I'm on the fence still. From what I've read and listened to, I honestly can't tell a difference. I still want to upgrade speaker cables from what I'm using just because I buy into you're only as good as your weakest link theory, plus it's something fun to get, but I can't tell. Maybe when I get new cable in my own system, I'll tell. PS, my experience comes from using some audioquest X8 (I think) cable in my system vs some monoprice 12awg speaker cable. I've also listened to Nordost cable and other high end cables when auditioning speakers, and I can't say that I felt like the cable was making a contribution to the sound.

[richteer]

Great thread!

When I was first getting into hifi many years ago, my attitude towards cables and other tweaks was much the same as most people here: how can bits of wire make a difference? So although I was sceptical, being an open minded kind of guy I tried a few experiements. Much to my surpise, I discovered different cables can have a different sound. So for me there is no "belief" that cables sound different--I know it for a fact!

My first experiments were with speaker cables, starting with QED 79 strand. QED 79 strand is basically the same sort of stuff that we can buy in Best Buy et al over here: relatively cheap 14 or 16 guage stranded copper. Nothing special. I compared it with Mission Cyrus cable and the stuff they wire house mains sockets with.

Neither of the two other cables were particularly expensive (IIRC, the Cyrus cable was about £5 (no more than $10) per metre). I think the mains cable and QED 79 strand were about the same price. The order in which I prefered them was 79 strand, mains cable, and Cyrus cable (all cables were bi-wired).

More recently I was at my local hifi store, The Hifi Attic in Vernon, and we played with interconnects a bit. Again, in some cases there was a marked difference, and in the specific system we were using, we all thought the cheaper ($300) cable was much better than the more expensive ($1000+) one.

I think that provided they make sense (cost-wise) in the context of the system in which they're being used, cables are an essential part of the audio system, and people should buy the best they can afford. I'm a big Nordost fan, so for me that means using as much Frey as I can in my system. I'm trying to stretch to Valhalla, but we'll have to see...

I've not experimented at all with power cables yet, so I remain the open-minded sceptic here. For now. :-)

[Gremal]

Originally Posted by richteer

I've not experimented at all with power cables yet, so I remain the open-minded sceptic here. For now.

That won't last long.

The painful (or empowering, depending on how you look at it) fact is that everything you put in the signal path or plug in between your outlets and the speakers will have an impact on the sound. I'm talking about the capacitors and resistors in your components, too! So if you're handy with a soldering iron and want to order some Vishay resistors, you can experiment with those as well. There's no end to the madness.

[Scooby Blu]

Originally Posted by Gremal

That won't last long.

The painful (or empowering, depending on how you look at it) fact is that everything you put in the signal path or plug in between your outlets and the speakers will have an impact on the sound. I'm talking about the capacitors and resistors in your components, too! So if you're handy with a soldering iron and want to order some Vishay resistors, you can experiment with those as well. There's no end to the madness.

There really is NO end to the madness! I agree 100%! Universal truth: THE BETTER THE BUILD THE BETTER THE SOUND!

[rded]

Rich(Prerich) is going to agrre with me because we are both big advocates of Nordost Cables.
When I first upgraded to Dynaudios, I used Generic Belkin speaker wires. A month later I upgraded to Nordost Red Dawns(sits in the middle of the pack) and the Difference noted was immediate-I've noticed that music is more "airy" and highs were not rolled off but more natural. Bass got tighter and more detailed. There was a lot more depth and 3-dimentionality in Music albeit still more forgiving of bad recordings.
With the arrival of my Naim CDP, I borrowed Appature IC from the dealer and upgraded to Red Dawns DIN to RCA intorconnects. I've noticed a wider sound stage tighter bass and more coherence all together. There's really good synergy between MY speaker wires and interconnects-my buddy says there's more sparkle in the music. Over all, the cables added to the Linear nature of my Dyns. I love them so much that I might have to trade them for Heimdalls in the near future.

On a side note, even though my wife doesn't wan't to admit it I know she diggs the Flat cables as they just blend in nicely to the family room, especially that they are out in the open and not not concealed.

[kingofgrills]

I upgraded my main speaker cables to XLO Electric Reference 5.0 cables a few years ago, with spade terminations on both ends, and they opened my eyes and ears a bit. There was a noticeable improvement in detail, fantastic treble extension, and added definition in mids and bass. I can't see myself ever swapping them out.

I have tried other speaker cables, but I haven't found any that have been better than the XLO Electric cables. You don't really see them outside of specialty audiophile shops, but you will ocassionally find them on Audiogon.

As for interconnects, I've tried a variety of them, both good and bad, and have had a variety of experiences. No specific interconnect stands out in my head, but they definitely can play a huge role in the presentation you hear. Ditto for subwoofer cables. I did swap a cheap Radio Shack sub cable for a Blue Jeans subwoofer cable, and the difference was like night and day. My old sub, before my M&Ks went from being on the boomy side (I never really noticed) to suddenly being tight, deeper, and accurate. It was as if I swapped out the sub instead of the cable.

I cannot stress enough how quality analog interconnects and speaker cables are critical to the listening experience. For digital cables, such as HDMI cables, you want to have a well built one that can accurately transfer data without errors. That is different than the effect a good (or poor) analog interconnect or speaker can have on a system.

[naturephoto1]

I first found out that cables (in this case speaker) cables could make a big difference in audio performance around 35 years ago when I heard Mogami cables at the big Audio Show in New York City.

Since then, I have been replacing cables including speaker cables, ICs, coax, Toslink, and power cords. The coax, toslink, and power cords were not changed until the early part of this century in about 2001 and onward.

We found out that the Mogami speaker cables, though they improved the sound, they also caused some problems with stability of the system. These were replaced by Monster Cables in the late 70s into the mid 80s. I also purchased better ICs that I kept replacing with better ones. Each replacement of the cabling improved the sound. For a while I was using Audioquest cables (silver Lapis X2) and Audioquest Cobalt speaker cables set up as a biwire. These were purchased in the first part of the 90s. They definitely improved the sound performance.

The Audioquest and some Monster cabling was replaced by Zu cables that I purchased on eBay for ICs, speaker cables, component, and power cords. These were purchased from about 2001 or 2002 through around 2005 or 2006. I also purchased Wire Worlds top of the line Toslink cables in around 2006.

The biggest improvement that I experienced though came when I purchased my newer audio components from around February or March of 2008 to just recently with the new Turntable set-up. All of the Zu cabling was replaced with the cables that I have mentioned from Kevin in Taiwan that sells on eBay as well as the Time Portal line sold by Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company, and Analysis Plus power cords made for us with the expensive Oyaide male and female IEC connectors as well as the Time Portal Power cords made be Kevin in Taiwan. Additionally at this point, I also have special cables made for me that are RCA to XLR cables, special highly shielded subwoofer cable, and the top of the Wire World HDMI cables, the Silver Starlight 5 squared cables. This accounts for my newest ICs, coax cables and speaker cables and I started getting these around January of 2008. These cables all use very high end copper and/or silver or copper and silver connectors, etc. In addition, we have added ferrite filters to many of the IC cables, subwoofer cable, power cords, etc.

Rich

[Johnny Vinyl]

I suppose I should chime in with my experiences as well, although I have no where near the reference quality cables some of my good friends on here have. I'll also not go back in time to the days when I was fortunate enough to own some much better gear than what I have now. It was then however that I first started to experiment with changing out interconnects and speaker cables. I've been a firm believer and proponant of this practice ever since.

At present I consider every link in my system as a weak one, with the exception of my Totem Sttaf speakers. For the size of my room and the type of music I listen to, I couldn't have asked for better value and performance. As such, and although I recognize that I can only get so much out of my Yamaha A/V, I opted for new speaker cables several times and am currently running Ultralink Matrix2 MPT-12 for my Sttaf's and Mite-T centre channel. For the rear Mites I am using Audioquest Type 1 Flatwire.

The single biggest improvement I have noticed is the expanded level of detail. Imaging has improved somewhat, but then I'm limited to what I own. There is no doubt that as my system grows into better componants, the benefits of higher quality cables will become much more evident.

For those with entry-level systems, DO NOT discount the additional sonic/aural benefits your rig can attain by upgrading your interconnects and/or speaker cabling.

John

[mdabb]

Depending on the cable design many cables can be used as a tone control and/or filters. This may or not be a good thing for some equipment and speakers, but it can help or it may hurt the SQ. I believe "great" cables don't and shouldn't have to cost a lot but I wouldn't use cables that are poorly built and are made of the cheapest materials as possible. This is where quality control should come into play. For the most part (not all) the majority of the companies out there source the materials all from the same place and follow the same cable design and theory. The end result being the same cables but with different jackets and/or connectors.

Mainly I want a cable to allow maximum transmission and not have a negative effect on sound. I want cables to be over built well designed and made from quality wire and great connectors.

So far in the game I am a believer of IC's and speaker cables and the potential impact they will have on sound as these types of cables are directly in the signal path. PC's to me have less of an effect on sound as power supplies will have more of a say on the matter. This is not to say I believe PC's don't have a role. You wouldn't want a wimpy poorly terminated PC on a piece of gear that draws a lot of power. A better cable will be more efficient and not add to the resistance resulting in heat and then failure and/or damage to the gear. If a better PC allows your amp to run more efficient then I would say the amp should then sound better. A Little high performance fuel for your car if you will. Maybe even a little cocaine for your horse . (sorry the derby came to mind)

I also want my cables to look good too for the most part. I don't really care about trying to hide wires/cables so if I have to look at them let me do so in style.

When it comes down to it buy what you like and use it how you want, it's your ears, your money, your gear and your house. Make thy self happy and enjoy !!!

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Gremal

That won't last long.

The painful (or empowering, depending on how you look at it) fact is that everything you put in the signal path or plug in between your outlets and the speakers will have an impact on the sound. I'm talking about the capacitors and resistors in your components, too! So if you're handy with a soldering iron and want to order some Vishay resistors, you can experiment with those as well. There's no end to the madness.

I know--and agree with every word you wrote. Basically, everything counts (to paraphrase Depeche Mode) to a more or lessor degree. And let's not forget one of the most important components: the room in which we listen!

[richteer]

Originally Posted by mdabb

I also want my cables to look good too for the most part. I don't really care about trying to hide wires/cables so if I have to look at them let me do so in style.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who cares what their gear looks like! Sure, sound quality is of the paramount importance, along with build quality and fit n finish. But to me, high end gear has also got to look the part. All else (price excluded) being equal, I'd use an item's looks as the decision maker.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by mdabb

I also want my cables to look good too for the most part. I don't really care about trying to hide wires/cables so if I have to look at them let me do so in style.

Originally Posted by richteer

I'm glad I'm not the only one who cares what their gear looks like! Sure, sound quality is of the paramount importance, along with build quality and fit n finish. But to me, high end gear has also got to look the part. All else (price excluded) being equal, I'd use an item's looks as the decision maker.

I agree completely. I look at my gear continually when I'm having a "me and my music" session. And I couldn't imagine looking at something that didn't aesthetically please me.

John

[mdabb]

I have to say aesthetics is important to most/all people even if they won't admit it. True....... it's not the ultimate factor and it shouldn't be, but who is gonna buy something that isn't appealing to the eye