Will 4K digital retailers make 4K exclusive to their own streaming devices?

[bocario]

Will 4K digital retailers make 4K exclusive to their own streaming devices?

List of 4K digital retailers and their associated streaming device:

1. Apple (Apple TV).
2. Google (Chromecast with Google TV).
3. Microsoft (Xbox).
4. Vudu (Roku).
5. Amazon (Fire TV).
6. DirecTV (DirecTV Stream).

[bocario]

Reports coming in that Apple has done so. 4K content only plays on their Apple TV box.

[kannibaliztik]

No. The apple tv app not playing HDR is likely a glitch they just need to fix on their end.

[d3nt0n]

There's already some 4k titles exclusive to kaleidescape.

[bocario]

This seems to be recent change in the Microsoft store: An X icon beside UHD indicating that 4K will only stream via Xbox

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by bocario

Will 4K digital retailers make 4K exclusive to their own streaming devices?

No. Because Movies Anywhere exists.

The only way it could be “locked” is a non MA movie such as ones from Lionsgate, MGM, and Paramount. But then these studios did not sign with MA so why would they sign exclusivity agreements for devices.

[bocario]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

No. Because Movies Anywhere exists.

The only way it could be “locked” is a non MA movie such as ones from Lionsgate, MGM, and Paramount. But then these studios did not sign with MA so why would they sign exclusivity agreements for devices.

4K MA titles would play in 4K only in the app of the streaming device installed on the streaming device.

For example, if you have Apple TV 4K, then you would need to play the title in Apple TV app on your device to watch in 4K. You may have vudu, prime video, youtube on your device. But the title won't play in 4K in these apps.

Now let's say you have a Roku 4K device on another TV. Then you would need the vudu app to play the title in 4K. It won't play in 4K on the Apple TV app installed on this device.

In essence:

To watch 4K in Apple TV app, you need an Apple TV 4K device.
To watch 4K in Vudu app, you need a Roku 4K device.
To watch 4K in Prime Video, you need a Fire TV 4K device.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by bocario

4K MA titles would play in 4K only in the app of the streaming device installed on the streaming device.

For example, if you have Apple TV 4K, then you would need to play the title in Apple TV app on your device to watch in 4K. You may have vudu, prime video, youtube on your device. But the title won't play in 4K in these apps.

Now let's say you have a Roku 4K device on another TV. Then you would need the vudu app to play the title in 4K. It won't play in 4K on the Apple TV app installed on this device.

In essence:

To watch 4K in Apple TV app, you need an Apple TV 4K device.
To watch 4K in Vudu app, you need a Roku 4K device.
To watch 4K in Prime Video, you need a Fire TV 4K device.

Yeah. That’s not going to happen.

Roku is also an open platform device while Vudu is an open platform app. Vudu is not going to sign an exclusitivy deal with a device maker, that would be dumb.

And what about Roku TVs? Fire TVs? The actual TVs with Roku or Fire OSs baked in?

Google/Android TV? Again, actual TVs with this OS.

Or XBox One/Series S/X or Playstation 4/5?

Or NVidia Shield with Android TV?

[bocario]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Yeah. That’s not going to happen.

Roku is also an open platform device while Vudu is an open platform app. Vudu is not going to sign an exclusitivy deal with a device maker, that would be dumb.

And what about Roku TVs? Fire TVs? The actual TVs with Roku or Fire OSs baked in?

Google/Android TV? Again, actual TVs with this OS.

Or XBox One/Series S/X or Playstation 4/5?

Or NVidia Shield with Android TV?

By streaming devices, I mean both the sticks/boxes and the TVs with the OSs built in.

Just a guess: This could be to escape the exorbitant fees that a retailer may have to pay the OS maker to stream in 4K.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by bocario

By streaming devices, I mean both the sticks/boxes and the TVs with the OSs built in.

Just a guess: This could be to escape the exorbitant fees that a retailer may have to pay the OS maker to stream in 4K.

There is no added fee for retailers to stream 4K purchases. Where are you getting this from?

Oh, Netflix? They are not charging retailers anything because Netflix only provides subscriptions. And the is fee is paid by consumers. No other streaming on demand service charges more for 4K resolution.

[bocario]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

There is no added fee for retailers to stream 4K purchases. Where are you getting this from?

Oh, Netflix? They are not charging retailers anything because Netflix only provides subscriptions. And the is fee is paid by consumers. No other streaming on demand service charges more for 4K resolution.

Apple recently pulled out purchases and rentals on Apple TV on the Google TV platform. You cannot make purchases/rentals on Apple TV on Fire TV platform either. Several news outlets reported that this is due to "platform fees" Apple has to pay Google and Amazon.

So I am guessing that some fees exist for 4K streaming too. For example, if Vudu wants to provide 4K streaming on Apple TV devices, they would have to pay Apple for that.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by bocario

Apple recently pulled out purchases and rentals on Apple TV on the Google TV platform. You cannot make purchases/rentals on Apple TV on Fire TV platform either. Several news outlets reported that this is due to "platform fees" Apple has to pay Google and Amazon.

So I am guessing that some fees exist for 4K streaming too. For example, if Vudu wants to provide 4K streaming on Apple TV devices, they would have to pay Apple for that.

There are no fees for streaming 4K on a device. The platform fee is what Google and Apple take from a purchase when an item is bought on their device via the App Store/Google Play or in-app purchases. It is a one time charge and has nothing do with the resolution of a stream.

Apple and Google get 30% of the sale price regardless of the item sold in the App Store or for in app purchases.

Amazon charges 20% while Roku’s fee varies depending on provider.

Because of the one time fee: you could NEVER buy or rent streaming movies from Vudu, Amazon, Google, FandangoNow, Target Ticket, or Redbox on iOS and AppleTV. You can open a web browser and do your purchase. The same goes for Android devices. However, on Android, some apps do allow you to make a purchase. This is why some products on Android were 30% more than other platforms, to cover the fee and make sure full payments were made to all involved.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Because of the one time fee: you could NEVER buy or rent streaming movies from Vudu, Amazon, Google, FandangoNow, Target Ticket, or Redbox on iOS and AppleTV. You can open a web browser and do your purchase. The same goes for Android devices. However, on Android, some apps do allow you to make a purchase. This is why some products on Android were 30% more than other platforms, to cover the fee and make sure full payments were made to all involved.

One exception to your list. Apple and Amazon have a deal worked out where you CAN purchase/rent content from the Amazon Prime Video app on iOS/iPadOS/tvOS, and I’m assuming macOS. This change was made a couple of years ago. You previously couldn’t.

You still can’t buy Kindle books via the Kindle app though. Just movies/TV shows on the Prime Video app.

[bocario]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

There are no fees for streaming 4K on a device. The platform fee is what Google and Apple take from a purchase when an item is bought on their device via the App Store/Google Play or in-app purchases. It is a one time charge and has nothing do with the resolution of a stream.

Apple and Google get 30% of the sale price regardless of the item sold in the App Store or for in app purchases.

Amazon charges 20% while Roku’s fee varies depending on provider.

Because of the one time fee: you could NEVER buy or rent streaming movies from Vudu, Amazon, Google, FandangoNow, Target Ticket, or Redbox on iOS and AppleTV. You can open a web browser and do your purchase. The same goes for Android devices. However, on Android, some apps do allow you to make a purchase. This is why some products on Android were 30% more than other platforms, to cover the fee and make sure full payments were made to all involved.

If there are no fees or any other restrictions for a retailer to stream on multiple platforms, I wonder why Microsoft is not at all streaming on any other platform than Windows and Xbox.

The only way to watch your Microsoft purchases on TV in US is Movies Anywhere (if you don't have an Xbox). But what about non-MA titles and what about those outside US as MA is available only in US?

Personally, I am a heavy Windows user and don't own an Xbox. I read a lot about movies on my Windows PC than any other device. If I want to buy or rent a movie, I would be first checking the Microsoft Store for it.

Long story short: Microsoft streaming exclusively on Microsoft platforms and Apple slowly pulling out 4K from other platforms. Where is this going? Streaming is a developing business. The players are still figuring out the game. Maximize profits, minimize losses.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by bocario

If there are no fees or any other restrictions for a retailer to stream on multiple platforms, I wonder why Microsoft is not at all streaming on any other platform than Windows and Xbox.

The simple answer: Microsoft only offers an app for Windows and XBox only.

Movie purchases that are Movies Anywhere compatible can be watched in:

Movies Anywhere (once linked)
Apple TV/iTunes (once linked)
Google Play (once linked)
Vudu (once linked)
Amazon Video (once linked)
DirecTV receivers (once linked, app not supported as app does not support pay per view)
Microsoft Movies & TV (once linked)
XFinity (once linked)
Verizon Fios (once linked)

You can connect a laptop to your TV via HDMI and watch your movies and TV shows if you don’t have an XBox. Yes, even an XBox 360 will work. You’ll only get HD resolution because the 360 is HD only, not because of a fee.

[bocario]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

The simple answer: Microsoft only offers an app for Windows and XBox only.

Movie purchases that are Movies Anywhere compatible can be watched in:

Movies Anywhere (once linked)
Apple TV/iTunes (once linked)
Google Play (once linked)
Vudu (once linked)
Amazon Video (once linked)
DirecTV receivers (once linked, app not supported as app does not support pay per view)
Microsoft Movies & TV (once linked)
XFinity (once linked)
Verizon Fios (once linked)

You can connect a laptop to your TV via HDMI and watch your movies and TV shows if you don’t have an XBox. Yes, even an XBox 360 will work. You’ll only get HD resolution because the 360 is HD only, not because of a fee.

Why not offer an app for other platforms? Is it that hard? No. Everyone else does.

I will offer an explanation: Actually they foresaw that some or the other day the platforms are going to ask for a share of the profits they make from streaming. They don't want to share the profits with anyone. So they don't make apps for other platforms.

Apple and Vudu are the no.1 4K retailers right now. Most Apple customers are using Roku to watch their purchases. Most Vudu customers are using Google TV to watch their purchases. Well...Roku and Google are going to want a share of that money.

Compare it to theatrical distribution. The theatres want a share of the profits the distributor gets.

[steve_dave]

Originally Posted by bocario

Why not offer an app for other platforms? Is it that hard? No. Everyone else does.

I will offer an explanation: Actually they foresaw that some or the other day the platforms are going to ask for a share of the profits they make from streaming. They don't want to share the profits with anyone. So they don't make apps for other platforms.

Apple and Vudu are the no.1 4K retailers right now. Most Apple customers are using Roku to watch their purchases. Most Vudu customers are using Google TV to watch their purchases. Well...Roku and Google are going to want a share of that money.

Compare it to theatrical distribution. The theatres want a share of the profits the distributor gets.

Most iTunes customers are using Apple TV or the app on their TV.

Most Vudu customers are using Roku.

Google and Roku are taking a share of the sale: Roku has unspecified fees the app maker pays while Google takes 30% of in app sales.

Microsoft also does make apps for most of their products on other platforms, they just have not made one for their Movies & TV product. You can play XBox games on iOS and Android through the cloud and these take up far more bandwidth than movies or TV shows.

And the bandwidth is not even charged by the platform, it is charged by the internet provider. Theaters are a different model where the capacity of a theater is limited by the theater itself. You might also want to educate yourself on the theater model actually works.

Roku and Google also can’t see what a customer is watching or doing. They can only see what app is opened. If they could see what a customer is watching or doing then in app Parental Controls would not be needed.

And it is obivious you are not going to drop this idea despite the evidence that contradicts that. So enjoy your sky is falling idea and have a good day or night.

[bocario]

Originally Posted by steve_dave

Most iTunes customers are using Apple TV or the app on their TV.

Most Vudu customers are using Roku.

Google and Roku are taking a share of the sale: Roku has unspecified fees the app maker pays while Google takes 30% of in app sales.

Microsoft also does make apps for most of their products on other platforms, they just have not made one for their Movies & TV product. You can play XBox games on iOS and Android through the cloud and these take up far more bandwidth than movies or TV shows.

And the bandwidth is not even charged by the platform, it is charged by the internet provider. Theaters are a different model where the capacity of a theater is limited by the theater itself. You might also want to educate yourself on the theater model actually works.

Roku and Google also can’t see what a customer is watching or doing. They can only see what app is opened. If they could see what a customer is watching or doing then in app Parental Controls would not be needed.

And it is obivious you are not going to drop this idea despite the evidence that contradicts that. So enjoy your sky is falling idea and have a good day or night.

I don't think you get it from a business point-of-view. Let me make it simpler by asking a question:

The Apple TV app exists on multiple non-Apple platforms. Apple lists around 12 here: https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-app/devices/

A customer buys a 4K title for $20 on iTunes and may use the Apple TV device made by Apple or any of the 12 platforms above to watch the movie.

Should Apple take the whole $20 or should it share it with the 12 platforms?

(If Apple TV app does not exist on other platforms, the customer has the only option of watching on Apple's own devices and this question does not arise)

[kannibaliztik]

To answer your original question, no, it won't be exclusive.

[bocario]

Originally Posted by kannibaliztik

To answer your original question, no, it won't be exclusive.

Yes. It is going to happen. Apple is being pressured to share more profits. Out of the $20 you give Apple for a 4K title, Apple is getting only $0.10 now

Let's just say it is getting difficult for retailers to settle out deals with the platform/OS providers.