Clarity sound from SONY ES VS Onkyo

[BLURAYSONYES]

I currently own the SONY 4300ES receiver. Been owning and upgrading Sony ES equipments for the last 13yrs. I have the receiver setup the best possible sound but lately Ive noticed that a lot of my customers owning from the basic to the highest end onkyo receiver they all tend to sound so clear. Even at low volume! I did very minor adjustments to their receivers but still sound better than mine quite honestly. Am I missing something here? I mean having the best possible Boston Acoustic speakers around and still lacking that clarity while my customer have theirs hooked up with low end speakers. Most Sony ES receiver are higher priced than Onkyo receivers. Perhaps anyone out there with a SONY ES have better settings to get to this?

[blujacket]

The Sony ES reviews I've seen haven't been very good as far as power. In the April/May issue of Sound & Vision, the Sony STR-DA5400ES measured 64w w/ 5 channels driven, and 45w w/ 7 channels. It did test high for 2 channels at 160w.I believe Onkyo is truer to their stated power ratings. I would consider adding an external amp to the Sony, which should bring the magic you're looking for. My 2 cents worth.

[BLURAYSONYES]

So adding a TA-N9000ES SONY ES 5ch amp would fix this problem?

[lojack1976]

Its true that in general Onkyo receivers will put out a lot more power. Onkyo doesn't put out inflated numbers like Sony does. You also have to look at the sound itself. Sony receivers are a little more neutral than Onkyo. Onkyo veers a tad toward the warm side and the sound is what I would call more aggressive.

Some people prefer the more neutral sound of Sony receivers and it may be that you would prefer a warmer sound. Wattage numbers aren't really that important unless you have speakers that require a lot of power to perform their best. My Harman Kardon receiver only puts out 55watts per channel yet it drives my speakers just as hard as my Onkyo did...maybe even harder.

The sound is very different since my Harman is much warmer which is something that Harman Kardon is known for. In general I'm not a big fan of Sony receivers, but the ES line is very good even if the power output is not as much as stated. I just wouldn't buy a non ES Sony receiver since they have a tendency to distort at higher volumes.

[lojack1976]

After looking at those speakers I think I agree with the previous suggestion that you may want to add an amp. I couldn't find much info on them, but looking at those bad boys makes me think they need more power than what that receiver is outputting. I'm not sure that Sony will be the way to go since a lot of people up here seem to like Outlaw and Emotiva a lot. I'm sure there are many people running separates that will have some good advice for you.

[ZIPPO]

I agree with blujacket, the newer Sony ES receivers aren't good for power. I upgraded from a Sony STR-V444ES 5.1 ch receiver to a Sony STR-DA5300ES 7.1 ch receiver. I made the upgrade to get lossless audio & HDMI, etc. The 444ES was purchased in 2000 for $800, the 5300ES in 2007 for $1600( higher cost doesn't guarantee better performance ). They're both rated at 120W/ch, but only one of them delivers. -40 volume on the 444ES is louder than -28 volume on the 5300ES. I couldn't go lower than -40 on the 444ES(just too loud/ better amp section). I'll probably add an Emotiva amp to the 5300ES to get a power bump in the future. Sony ES receivers just aren't what they used to be.

I used to be a Sony man, until I joined this forum. Now I'm willing to give some of the other brands a try. So far I've been pleasantly surprised with the quality & performance offered by Marantz & Denon receivers.

[blujacket]

Originally Posted by BLURAYSONYES

So adding a TA-N9000ES SONY ES 5ch amp would fix this problem?

Why limit yourself to Sony? Is Sony the only make you'll purchase? That amp was made close to ten years ago,no?

[BLURAYSONYES]

ok so....

adding a better powerful amp would still allow me to watch movies with all the new lossless decodes? How exactly does this work if I use the preouts to the new amp via analog audio lines?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by BLURAYSONYES

ok so....

adding a better powerful amp would still allow me to watch movies with all the new lossless decodes? How exactly does this work if I use the preouts to the new amp via analog audio lines?

Yes, an external power amplifier will continue to give you lossless audio. An amplifier has nothing to do with lossless or lossy audio. It only amplfies the sound that it receives from the receiver or the pre/pro. Many people confuse an amplfier with a receiver and refer to the receiver as an amplifier. For the difference between the two and major advantages and disadvantages of each, check Post #2 in the Amplifier Manufacturers thread.

For an external 5 channel amplifier to work, you will need to do the following:

1. Buy 5 RCA cables of appropriate length.
2. Turn off the receiver and all other components.
3. Disconnect all speaker wires from the receiver.
4. Connect one end of the RCA cables to the preouts on the receiver and the other to the new amplifier's inputs.
   • One RCA cable for the left front channel.
   • One RCA cable for the right front channel.
   • One RCA cable for the center.
   • One RCA cable for left surround channel.
   • One RCA cable for right surround channel.
5. Connect the speaker cables to the new amplifier. Make sure you do not mix the speaker wires and double check that the polarities (positive, negative) are correct.

After this, the new amplifier drives your speakers and the built-in amplifiers inside the old receiver will be idle. The receiver should run a little cooler than before.

The subwoofer will work as before and requires a longer RCA cable (preferrably an RG6 digital coaxial cable) to be connected from the LFE out (sub out or sub preout) on the receiver to the powered subwoofer's input.

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Yes, an external power amplifier will continue to give you lossless audio. An amplifier has nothing to do with lossless or lossy audio. It only amplfies the sound that it receives from the receiver or the pre/pro. Many people confuse an amplfier with a receiver and refer to the receiver as an amplifier. For the difference between the two and major advantages and disadvantages of each, check Post #2 in the Amplifier Manufacturers thread.

For an external 5 channel amplifier to work, you will need to do the following:

1. Buy 5 RCA cables of appropriate length.
2. Turn off the receiver and all other components.
3. Disconnect all speaker wires from the receiver.
4. Connect one end of the RCA cables to the preouts on the receiver and the other to the new amplifier's inputs.
   • One RCA cable for the left front channel.
   • One RCA cable for the right front channel.
   • One RCA cable for the center.
   • One RCA cable for left surround channel.
   • One RCA cable for right surround channel.
5. Connect the speaker cables to the new amplifier. Make sure you do not mix the speaker wires and double check that the polarities (positive, negative) are correct.

After this, the new amplifier drives your speakers and the built-in amplifiers inside the old receiver will be idle. The receiver should run a little cooler than before.

The subwoofer will work as before and requires a longer RCA cable (preferrably an RG6 digital coaxial cable) to be connected from the LFE out (sub out or sub preout) on the receiver to the powered subwoofer's input.

I've always have been curious BD. How would one go about bi-wiring surrounds and what not off of one pre-out?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

I've always have been curious BD. How would one go about bi-wiring surrounds and what not off of one pre-out?

With bi-wiring, there is no significant improvement in the sound.

Bi-amping has more of an effect on sound and that requires two amplifiers.

If you still wish to bi-wire your speakers, you have two options:

• Bi-wiring with the receiver only. Connect two set of speakers wires to the receiver's speaker output for that particular speaker.
• Connect the other end of the speaker wires to the low and high inputs on the speaker (one set of speaker wires gets connected to the low inputs and one set of speaker wires to the high inputs).
• Bi-wiring with an external amplifier. Connect an RCA cable from the pre-out on the receiver for that channel to the amplifier's input for the same channel. Then connect two set of speaker wires from the external amplifier to the speaker's low and high inputs the same way as in the previous case.

If you want to bi-amp the speaker with two external amplifiers, do the following:

• Connect a Y adapter (one male, two female) to the pre-out of the receiver for the speaker channel.
• Connect two set of RCA cables to the female side of the Y adapter.
• Connect one RCA cable to the input of one of of the amplifiers and connect the other RCA cable to the input of the other amplifier.
• From the first external amplifier, run one set of speaker wires and connect them to the high inputs of the speaker.
• From the second amplifier, run another set of speaker wires and connect them to the low inputs of the speaker.

In all cases, make sure you remove the jumpers that are attached to the low and high inputs on the back of the speaker.

I hope this answers your question.

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

With bi-wiring, there is no significant improvement in the sound.

Bi-amping has more of an effect on sound and that requires two amplifiers.

If you still wish to bi-wire your speakers, you have two options:

• Bi-wiring with the receiver only. Connect two set of speakers wires to the receiver's speaker output for that particular speaker.
• Connect the other end of the speaker wires to the low and high inputs on the speaker (one set of speaker wires gets connected to the low inputs and one set of speaker wires to the high inputs).
• Bi-wiring with an external amplifier. Connect an RCA cable from the pre-out on the receiver for that channel to the amplifier's input for the same channel. Then connect two set of speaker wires from the external amplifier to the speaker's low and high inputs the same way as in the previous case.

If you want to bi-amp the speaker with two external amplifiers, do the following:

• Connect a Y adapter (one male, two female) to the pre-out of the receiver for the speaker channel.
• Connect two set of RCA cables to the female side of the Y adapter.
• Connect one RCA cable to the input of one of of the amplifiers and connect the other RCA cable to the input of the other amplifier.
• From the first external amplifier, run one set of speaker wires and connect them to the high inputs of the speaker.
• From the second amplifier, run another set of speaker wires and connect them to the low inputs of the speaker.

In all cases, make sure you remove the jumpers that are attached to the low and high inputs on the back of the speaker.

I hope this answers your question.

It does! Thanks BD. I had one last question though, and sorry OP for jacking the thread, but couldn't you 'bi-amp' using just one amp. Like for example, use a 5 channel amp to 'bi-amp' the fronts, leaving just one other output on the amp for the center?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Audiophile_At_Birth

It does! Thanks BD. I had one last question though, and sorry OP for jacking the thread, but couldn't you 'bi-amp' using just one amp. Like for example, use a 5 channel amp to 'bi-amp' the fronts, leaving just one other output on the amp for the center?

Yes, if you have a multi-channel amplifier, you don't need a second amplifier. In my explanation, I assumed you have basic two-channel amplifiers.

[Audiophile_At_Birth]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Yes, if you have a multi-channel amplifier, you don't need a second amplifier. In my explanation, I assumed you have basic two-channel amplifiers.

Ahh. Ok, I get it now. Thanks BD

[bigred7078]

Originally Posted by BLURAYSONYES

I currently own the SONY 4300ES receiver. Been owning and upgrading Sony ES equipments for the last 13yrs. I have the receiver setup the best possible sound but lately Ive noticed that a lot of my customers owning from the basic to the highest end onkyo receiver they all tend to sound so clear. Even at low volume! I did very minor adjustments to their receivers but still sound better than mine quite honestly. Am I missing something here? I mean having the best possible Boston Acoustic speakers around and still lacking that clarity while my customer have theirs hooked up with low end speakers. Most Sony ES receiver are higher priced than Onkyo receivers. Perhaps anyone out there with a SONY ES have better settings to get to this?

customers for what?