Big daddy! - Blu-ray Forum

mj79 · 07-22-2009, 10:58 PM

I can't decide at all what to do. If you were in my shoes what would YOU do. I want the best setup to fill the room with deep low bass. And the bdge is still ... $400. Or so. I would love a 15 but dunno how big they are.. Usually a 24x24x24 enclosure is 8 cubic feet before sub and port displacement. Well the room I'm putting them in is open. The room itself is 16x20 but he bar is also a part of the downstairs. So the total area would be about 18'x30

I can always build. But you said aa had some very good fully loaded enclosures for about 180 shipped. And 180 wouldn't even get me a titanic 15. But I do want the ultra low end.

Soo.... To get the most for my money.

1-15
two cheaper 15s
2 -12s
2 very nice 10s

I have just been given so many excellent options on here by you and other members u literally can not decide what to do

and like I said I am a carpenter so if I build it will be a well made solid enclosure as I have build everything in car audio from sealed , 4th order bandpasses, ported and fiberglass

I just want to make sure that if I'm building the enclosure that the equiptment is superior to those of a loaded enclosure. Otherwise I just kind of wasted time and money to build something that a fully loaded enclosure was just as good as for less $$.

This is very hard to wonder what to do ESPECIALLY when you have the money and arE ready to order.

Fors* · 07-22-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj79

I can't decide at all what to do. If you were in my shoes what would YOU do. I want the best setup to fill the room with deep low bass. And the bdge is still ... $400. Or so. I would love a 15 but dunno how big they are.. Usually a 24x24x24 enclosure is 8 cubic feet before sub and port displacement. Well the room I'm putting them in is open. The room itself is 16x20 but he bar is also a part of the downstairs. So the total area would be about 18'x30

I can always build. But you said aa had some very good fully loaded enclosures for about 180 shipped. And 180 wouldn't even get me a titanic 15. But I do want the ultra low end.

Soo.... To get the most for my money.

1-15
two cheaper 15s
2 -12s
2 very nice 10s

I have just been given so many excellent options on here by you and other members u literally can not decide what to do

and like I said I am a carpenter so if I build it will be a well made solid enclosure as I have build everything in car audio from sealed , 4th order bandpasses, ported and fiberglass

I just want to make sure that if I'm building the enclosure that the equiptment is superior to those of a loaded enclosure. Otherwise I just kind of wasted time and money to build something that a fully loaded enclosure was just as good as for less $$.

This is very hard to wonder what to do ESPECIALLY when you have the money and arE ready to order.

A thread that starts with "Big Daddy" demands a look at....mj, you are in good hands, heed the knowledge and wisdom of the chosen one...he will lead you down the right path towards subwoofer nirvana!

Big Daddy · 07-22-2009, 11:44 PM

Basically, you have narrowed your choices to these:

Buy two 15" AA RW-SUB 15 for less than $350.
Buy two 12" AA HD-SUB12 for less than $350-$400.
Buy one 15" HD-SUB15 for less than $260.
Build one sub for over $400.

Given the shape and size of your room, you definitely need two subwoofers to get more even bass across the room. If I were in your position, I would go for two subs instead of one. As a general rule, I prefer two subwoofers to one in almost all cases.

The AA subs are relatively small and very efficient. They will not take that much space. Since you are a carpenter, you can build high quality sub risers and also longer legs for the subwoofers. I and a few other members experienced an improvement the performance of our subwoofers when we built risers and made their legs longer.

If you decide to go with the AA subs, make an offer on their Ebay store and save yourself another $20 to $40.

Ultimately, you will be happy with all the above choices. They will all give you the low frequency bass sound you want and surpass the experience you had with the underperforming Polk sub.

mj79 · 07-23-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg21

A thread that starts with "Big Daddy" demands a look at....mj, you are in good hands, heed the knowledge and wisdom of the chosen one...he will lead you down the right path towards subwoofer nirvana!

lol for sure man, very helpfull and full of great advice.

And BD. Since you put it best about my options I'm assuming 2 15s or 2 12s

I think 2 HD 15s might be overkill but I realize they also have a better low end. Are they the same driver with just different power?

What in your opinion is the best 15" fully loaded sub for less than 400 ? Aa hd15? Maybe I could get one very good 15 and see how it is and if I need more just add another since they are very well priced.

And on average what is the spl gain between a HD 12 and 15 as well as the differnece in fs. How much lower will that 15 actually hit

Fors* · 07-23-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj79

lol for sure man, very helpfull and full of great advice.

And BD. Since you put it best about my options I'm assuming 2 15s or 2 12s

I think 2 HD 15s might be overkill but I realize they also have a better low end. Are they the same driver with just different power?

What in your opinion is the best 15" fully loaded sub for less than 400 ? Aa hd15? Maybe I could get one very good 15 and see how it is and if I need more just add another since they are very well priced.

And on average what is the spl gain between a HD 12 and 15 as well as the differnece in fs. How much lower will that 15 actually hit

I'm going to throw in my 2 cents.....go bigger, you will always regret it, as you can always calibrate the subs to be balanced within the room to prevent any kind of overkill. But, on those rare occassions, you would have those horses in the stable, ready to break out and run wild...it is worth it's weight in gold when you first get to really turn both of them up and appreciate it when 2X15" AA's are pushing out those bass frequencies near 20Hz!!

Big Daddy · 07-23-2009, 12:39 AM

Buy one 15" HD SUB15 and see how it performs. Give it some time because it takes time for you to find the optimum position and setup in the room. Also, it takes time for the brain to adjust to the new sound. You can always save money and buy another one in the future. You can also tweak the sub later, change its driver, etc. I do it all the time.

jomari · 07-23-2009, 12:54 AM

its time the 'other guy' shows up around here...

would the living space be your own place, or renting?

personally, have you also considered IB subs?

it does take a bit of skill, but definitely a good thing to look into, IF you own your current living area.

In regards to multiple subs versus a single subwoofer, again, id have to agree on BD and fos on this note. Two can equally have a better, smoother response compared to a singular sub.

The amount of time, material, and studying to create a new sub, would definitely be more than the amount of investment youd drop on a AA sub. You can also see a number of owners, and their feedback in the main thread.

Big Daddy · 07-23-2009, 01:02 AM

Besides the AA HD-SUB15, the only other 15" subwoofer for under $400 is Cadence. It is a very good subwoofer.

http://www.cadencehometheaterspeaker...7&idcategory=2

Edit:
The 12" Titanic driver and the 500 Watt Dayton amplifier, and a sealed box are sold in unassembled kit format for $600 at Parts Express. The fully assembled Dayton T1203A 12" Subwoofer is sold for $750.

mj79 · 07-23-2009, 01:32 AM

Anks again all 3 of you. I do own the house but probably don't wanna get to crazy. I would love to build an enclosure like I said. But in the long ruN I might just be better off for now going with just one very good sub. And co pared to the psw10 I have I can't even imagine what the difference will be with 5 times the power and 10 times the sub and enclosure

few more questions. Go figure.

How does the hd15 driver compare to a titanic or svs or velodyne etc I k ow there are monsterous price differences but overall will the aa get the job done or is it pretty noticable? My buddy ( who has an endless bank account ) has a $3000 onkyo receiver, full 7.1 paradigm speakersand a servo 15. It's almost sad to listen to what I have after that. But that servo is just sick. I mean it hits you in the chest and rumbles so you literally feel it. Almost as an impact. And I have been in spl competitions for about 8 years in cars and that sub actually impressed me. Even after sitting in cars that roam around 160+ db @ 30-40 hz in outlaw competitions

I'm also worried that if this hd15 is that powerfull my receiver and speakers might not be able to keep up lol ( if I add 2 )

I guess I'm going to need new sub rca's as well since mine are only 12 feet and it's over that to center anything. So far right now my Polk here sounds best behind the tv actually. ( last place I tried, go figure ) sub and port firing against the wall.

And after listening to bass for a while your ears tend to adjust to them so I'm assuming the most accurate way to find the loudest point in your room is with a cheap db meter and just play test tones from the couch. Or wherever your going to be watching from?

Big Daddy · 07-23-2009, 01:51 AM

There is no doubt that a DIY sub with good components or other commercially available 15" subwoofers are great, but none of them are going to kill the AA HD-SUB15. I have a DIY 15" Titanic sub with a Carver Amplifier that generates about 1500+ watts (RMS). I also have two passive 12" cylindrical high-end HSU subwoofers that cost me $1500 in 1998. A few months ago, I replaced their drivers with new 200+ drivers. I also have an AA HD-SUB12 in the same room. None of the subwoofers kill the AA sub. In fact, the AA sub is the loudest subwoofer in my room and I have the amp level set around 40%. The gain in my receiver for the subs is -2.0. The Hsu subs are a bit more musical and the 15" DIY Titanic is a bit deeper. I measured the performance of the AA sub with an SPL meter and test tones and it goes down to 20Hz.

Car subwoofers tend to be very loud and they are great with upper bass frequencies. Home theater subs are not as loud and are better with lower bass frequencies and tend to be more musical.

Human hearing is more sensitive to upper bass frequencies. We don't hear the lower bass frequencies as well. We usually feel them. You need to give your sub and your brain some time to adjust. It is not unusual for people who have come from car audio to be a bit underwhelmed at the beginning. However, almost all of them get used to their HT subs and don't like their car subs as much.

jomari · 07-23-2009, 02:04 AM

as mentioned, car acoustics and home acoustics are two different environments, with both enthusiast 'adjusting' to what each of them have to offer.

in regards to your inquiries, we may be getting into a lot more detail now.

1.im under the assumption that you're planning to purchase one subwoofer. as always, two or four is of preference considering how big your current room is. pairing it with an identical one is ideal, but not necessarily the golden rule.
2. the driver is pretty much a great steal if you ask me. as bd has already indicated in a previous posting, he's swapped out the driver of the AA sub with a ED (if im not mistaken), and got a good response from it - not night and day difference, but more than enough to show that a driver can make a difference if you chose to.
3. RCA cables, go ahead and check into monoprice for great deals, or better yet, bluejeanscable as options

mj79 · 07-23-2009, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

There is no doubt that a DIY sub with good components or other commercially available 15" subwoofers are great, but none of them are going to kill the AA HD-SUB15. I have a DIY 15" Titanic sub with a Carver Amplifier that generates about 1500+ watts (RMS). I also have two passive 12" cylindrical high-end HSU subwoofers that cost me $1500 in 1998. A few months ago, I replaced their drivers with new 200+ drivers. I also have an AA HD-SUB12 in the same room. None of the subwoofers kill the AA sub. In fact, the AA sub is the loudest subwoofer in my room and I have the amp level set around 40%. The gain in my receiver for the subs is -2.0. The Hsu subs are a bit more musical and the 15" DIY Titanic is a bit deeper. I measured the performance of the AA sub with an SPL meter and test tones and it goes down to 20Hz.

Car subwoofers tend to be very loud and they are great with upper bass frequencies. Home theater subs are not as loud and are better with lower bass frequencies and tend to be more musical.

Human hearing is more sensitive to upper bass frequencies. We don't hear the lower bass frequencies as well. We usually feel them. You need to give your sub and your brain some time to adjust. It is not unusual for people who have come from car audio to be a bit underwhelmed at the beginning. However, almost all of them get used to their HT subs and don't like their car subs as much.

I can see that for sure. I love low bass. The type of bass that is near unbearable lol which is why I tune all my Boxes very low( for car audio 28-30 hz is very low) so I peak around 43-44 hz in cabin

you don't know how many times I would have tried to steal my buddys servo and put it in the trunk cuz that is the type of low hard hitting sound I like. I think your right tho. My entertainment room isn't very big but either 2 HD 12s or 15s IMO would be plenty. Especially compared to what I have now. If I get bored and want to try something else out I'll build a dual enclosure and throw my 12s in there in about 6 cubes of enclosure and tune low (20hz) then get the Dayton 1000 watt amp. I'll have plenty of uses for it so no worries there and I have about 4 sheets of mdf laying around as well for some good ht practice builds.

Lil off topic but where do you place the amp on a sono enclosure.

Big Daddy · 07-23-2009, 04:20 AM

Sonotube subwoofers are usually passive. My cylindrical subwoofers are passive and I use external amplifiers for them. Some manufacturers make the back of a cylindrical sub flat and put the amp there. This is a cylindrical subwoofer from Funky Waves

Also, read these:
http://www.lungster.com/l/speakers/sonotubefaq.shtml
http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/sonosub-help.htm
http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/sonosub.htm

crazyBLUE · 07-23-2009, 04:35 AM

I have A question for you Big Daddy ! Can I run an external amp off my subs . Or would I have to change things to do so !

Big Daddy · 07-23-2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I have A question for you Big Daddy ! Can I run an external amp off my subs . Or would I have to change things to do so !

If you are talking about daisy chaining the subwoofers, you should be able to do it with most subs.

crazyBLUE · 07-23-2009, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

If you are talking about daisy chaining the subwoofers, you should be able to do it with most subs.

So you are saying to run A RCA from Rec. Pre-out to amp Then speaker wire to sub / sub !

Big Daddy · 07-23-2009, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

So you are saying to run A RCA from Rec. Pre-out to amp Then speaker wire to sub / sub !

Some subwoofers have RCA outputs for connecting to another subwoofer. Some only have speaker wire outputs.

crazyBLUE · 07-23-2009, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Some subwoofers have RCA outputs for connecting to another subwoofer. Some only have speaker wire outputs.

Well the RCA from sub to sub does not apply to me ! Just looked .
So with the sub having an amp. But running an external as well , do they combine the watts between the 2 or you would be getting just the watts from the external amp .

Big Daddy · 07-23-2009, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Well the RCA from sub to sub does not apply to me ! Just looked .
So with the sub having an amp. But running an external as well , do they combine the watts between the 2 or you would be getting just the watts from the external amp .

I believe on most subwoofers, the second subwoofer receives its power from its own built-in amplifier and does not share the power from the external subwoofer.

crazyBLUE · 07-23-2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

I believe on most subwoofers, the second subwoofer receives its power from its own built-in amplifier and does not share the power from the external subwoofer.

Thank you vary much ! I have Plenty of channels

To PLAY around with .

I understand how to add watts to my subs !

07-22-2009, 10:58 PM	#1
mj79 Banned Member since:Jun 2009 Location:San Antonio/ Duluth Mn	Big daddy! I can't decide at all what to do. If you were in my shoes what would YOU do. I want the best setup to fill the room with deep low bass. And the bdge is still ... $400. Or so. I would love a 15 but dunno how big they are.. Usually a 24x24x24 enclosure is 8 cubic feet before sub and port displacement. Well the room I'm putting them in is open. The room itself is 16x20 but he bar is also a part of the downstairs. So the total area would be about 18'x30 I can always build. But you said aa had some very good fully loaded enclosures for about 180 shipped. And 180 wouldn't even get me a titanic 15. But I do want the ultra low end. Soo.... To get the most for my money. 1-15 two cheaper 15s 2 -12s 2 very nice 10s I have just been given so many excellent options on here by you and other members u literally can not decide what to do and like I said I am a carpenter so if I build it will be a well made solid enclosure as I have build everything in car audio from sealed , 4th order bandpasses, ported and fiberglass I just want to make sure that if I'm building the enclosure that the equiptment is superior to those of a loaded enclosure. Otherwise I just kind of wasted time and money to build something that a fully loaded enclosure was just as good as for less $$. This is very hard to wonder what to do ESPECIALLY when you have the money and arE ready to order.

07-22-2009, 11:44 PM	#3
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	Basically, you have narrowed your choices to these: Buy two 15" AA RW-SUB 15 for less than $350. Buy two 12" AA HD-SUB12 for less than $350-$400. Buy one 15" HD-SUB15 for less than $260. Build one sub for over $400. Given the shape and size of your room, you definitely need two subwoofers to get more even bass across the room. If I were in your position, I would go for two subs instead of one. As a general rule, I prefer two subwoofers to one in almost all cases. The AA subs are relatively small and very efficient. They will not take that much space. Since you are a carpenter, you can build high quality sub risers and also longer legs for the subwoofers. I and a few other members experienced an improvement the performance of our subwoofers when we built risers and made their legs longer. If you decide to go with the AA subs, make an offer on their Ebay store and save yourself another $20 to $40. Ultimately, you will be happy with all the above choices. They will all give you the low frequency bass sound you want and surpass the experience you had with the underperforming Polk sub. Last edited by Big Daddy; 07-23-2009 at 12:14 AM.

07-23-2009, 01:02 AM	#8
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	Besides the AA HD-SUB15, the only other 15" subwoofer for under $400 is Cadence. It is a very good subwoofer. http://www.cadencehometheaterspeaker...7&idcategory=2 Edit: The 12" Titanic driver and the 500 Watt Dayton amplifier, and a sealed box are sold in unassembled kit format for $600 at Parts Express. The fully assembled Dayton T1203A 12" Subwoofer is sold for $750. Last edited by Big Daddy; 07-23-2009 at 01:20 AM.

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07-23-2009, 12:39 AM	#6
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	Buy one 15" HD SUB15 and see how it performs. Give it some time because it takes time for you to find the optimum position and setup in the room. Also, it takes time for the brain to adjust to the new sound. You can always save money and buy another one in the future. You can also tweak the sub later, change its driver, etc. I do it all the time.

07-23-2009, 12:54 AM	#7
jomari Moderator Top contributor Member since:Nov 2007 Home Theater Gallery:18 Blu-ray reviews: 2 Trading Score:2	its time the 'other guy' shows up around here... would the living space be your own place, or renting? personally, have you also considered IB subs? it does take a bit of skill, but definitely a good thing to look into, IF you own your current living area. In regards to multiple subs versus a single subwoofer, again, id have to agree on BD and fos on this note. Two can equally have a better, smoother response compared to a singular sub. The amount of time, material, and studying to create a new sub, would definitely be more than the amount of investment youd drop on a AA sub. You can also see a number of owners, and their feedback in the main thread.

07-23-2009, 01:32 AM	#9
mj79 Banned Member since:Jun 2009 Location:San Antonio/ Duluth Mn	Anks again all 3 of you. I do own the house but probably don't wanna get to crazy. I would love to build an enclosure like I said. But in the long ruN I might just be better off for now going with just one very good sub. And co pared to the psw10 I have I can't even imagine what the difference will be with 5 times the power and 10 times the sub and enclosure few more questions. Go figure. How does the hd15 driver compare to a titanic or svs or velodyne etc I k ow there are monsterous price differences but overall will the aa get the job done or is it pretty noticable? My buddy ( who has an endless bank account ) has a $3000 onkyo receiver, full 7.1 paradigm speakersand a servo 15. It's almost sad to listen to what I have after that. But that servo is just sick. I mean it hits you in the chest and rumbles so you literally feel it. Almost as an impact. And I have been in spl competitions for about 8 years in cars and that sub actually impressed me. Even after sitting in cars that roam around 160+ db @ 30-40 hz in outlaw competitions I'm also worried that if this hd15 is that powerfull my receiver and speakers might not be able to keep up lol ( if I add 2 ) I guess I'm going to need new sub rca's as well since mine are only 12 feet and it's over that to center anything. So far right now my Polk here sounds best behind the tv actually. ( last place I tried, go figure ) sub and port firing against the wall. And after listening to bass for a while your ears tend to adjust to them so I'm assuming the most accurate way to find the loudest point in your room is with a cheap db meter and just play test tones from the couch. Or wherever your going to be watching from?

07-23-2009, 01:51 AM	#10
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	There is no doubt that a DIY sub with good components or other commercially available 15" subwoofers are great, but none of them are going to kill the AA HD-SUB15. I have a DIY 15" Titanic sub with a Carver Amplifier that generates about 1500+ watts (RMS). I also have two passive 12" cylindrical high-end HSU subwoofers that cost me $1500 in 1998. A few months ago, I replaced their drivers with new 200+ drivers. I also have an AA HD-SUB12 in the same room. None of the subwoofers kill the AA sub. In fact, the AA sub is the loudest subwoofer in my room and I have the amp level set around 40%. The gain in my receiver for the subs is -2.0. The Hsu subs are a bit more musical and the 15" DIY Titanic is a bit deeper. I measured the performance of the AA sub with an SPL meter and test tones and it goes down to 20Hz. Car subwoofers tend to be very loud and they are great with upper bass frequencies. Home theater subs are not as loud and are better with lower bass frequencies and tend to be more musical. Human hearing is more sensitive to upper bass frequencies. We don't hear the lower bass frequencies as well. We usually feel them. You need to give your sub and your brain some time to adjust. It is not unusual for people who have come from car audio to be a bit underwhelmed at the beginning. However, almost all of them get used to their HT subs and don't like their car subs as much.

07-23-2009, 02:04 AM	#11
jomari Moderator Top contributor Member since:Nov 2007 Home Theater Gallery:18 Blu-ray reviews: 2 Trading Score:2	as mentioned, car acoustics and home acoustics are two different environments, with both enthusiast 'adjusting' to what each of them have to offer. in regards to your inquiries, we may be getting into a lot more detail now. 1.im under the assumption that you're planning to purchase one subwoofer. as always, two or four is of preference considering how big your current room is. pairing it with an identical one is ideal, but not necessarily the golden rule. 2. the driver is pretty much a great steal if you ask me. as bd has already indicated in a previous posting, he's swapped out the driver of the AA sub with a ED (if im not mistaken), and got a good response from it - not night and day difference, but more than enough to show that a driver can make a difference if you chose to. 3. RCA cables, go ahead and check into monoprice for great deals, or better yet, bluejeanscable as options

07-23-2009, 04:20 AM	#13
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	Sonotube subwoofers are usually passive. My cylindrical subwoofers are passive and I use external amplifiers for them. Some manufacturers make the back of a cylindrical sub flat and put the amp there. This is a cylindrical subwoofer from Funky Waves Also, read these: http://www.lungster.com/l/speakers/sonotubefaq.shtml http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/sonosub-help.htm http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/sonosub.htm

07-23-2009, 04:35 AM	#14
crazyBLUE Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Pacific Northwest Home Theater Gallery:89 Blu-ray collection:479 DVD collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 38 Trading Score:30	I have A question for you Big Daddy ! Can I run an external amp off my subs . Or would I have to change things to do so !

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