HD VMD camp claims their format has better PQ than Blu-ray or HD DVD

[HDTV1080P]

This fall we are now going to have 3 HDTV optical disc formats to choose from. HD VMD, HD-DVD, and BLU-RAY. HD VMD is also called HD Versatile Multilayer Disc.

1. What is very interesting is the HD VMD camp according to their website claims that the picture quality will be better then both the BLU-RAY format and HD-DVD format.

Quote
“HD VMD players are extremely versatile and compelling from both a technological and performance perspective. HD VMDs have a maximum data transfer rate of 40 Mbps versus 36 Mbps for HD DVD and Blu-ray, which gives it the potential of sharper more detailed pictures over the competing formats.”
http://www.nmeinc.com/

Fact number 1: BLU-RAY has a raw data transfer rate of 53.95 Mbps and HD-DVD has a raw data transfer rate of 36.55 Mbps. So even if the HD VMD format launches with a raw data transfer rate of somewhere between 40-45 Mbps the BLU-RAY format is better quality compared to HD VMD. Now the HD VMD format in theory will provide a better picture quality compared to the HD-DVD format since the HD VMD format has higher bit rates.

2. Quote
“An optical output is available to deliver surround sound formats including standard 5.1-channel Dolby Digital, DTS and more advanced surround sound formats including 7.1 channel surround and Dolby Digital Plus; however, the system will not support all of the newer advanced surround formats of the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD formats, due to higher costs and the need for users to purchase additional home theater equipment, executives said.”

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6477636.html?q

Fact number 2. Both the BLU-RAY and HD-DVD formats offers better sound quality compared to the HD VMD format. Advanced sound formats like DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD, and PCM are not supported with the HD VMD system due to the required bandwidth needs for those audio formats and the fact that HD VMD player prices would need to cost more for those features.

3. Quote
“The HD DMV’s multilayer technology can produce discs that hold up to six layers at 5GB per layer. The format will initially launch with three layer and four layer discs at 15GB and 20GB capacities, respectively.”

Fact number 3. Both the BLU-RAY and HD-DVD formats use more expensive higher capacity blue laser technology that allows more video and audio data to be stored on a disc compared to the red laser HD VMD system. The HD VMD format can hold 5GB of data per layer with a maximum of 6 layers for 30GB total disc space. HD VMD is the worse HD optical format for capacity since the HD-DVD format can handle 15GB per layer and BLU-RAY can handle 25GB per layer. The HD VMD format is so lacking in capacity that they have to launch all their first movies on 3 and 4 layer discs. The HD-DVD format only needed to launch their first movies on 2 layer discs since it has more capacity. The BLU-RAY camp had so much capacity per layer that all their first movies were first launched on single layer 25GB discs.

4. The HD VMD format will have 1080P HDTV player for only $199 at launch time.

Quote
“A top-of-the-line model (ML-777) with 1080p DVD up-conversion and native HD output at up to 1080p/24 fps, will carry a $199 suggested retail.”
Quote
“The ML-777 player will be fully backward compatible with DVDs and CDs and will up-convert standard-definition video to 1080p over its HDMI 1.3 connection. Other video outputs include component video, composite video and S-video.”

Fact number 4. The HD VMD specs are still very sketchy and it is not known for sure if the ML-777 player supports 1080P/24. The product brochure mentions 1080P/60 and not 1080P/24. http://www.nmeinc.com/ There is no doubt that the HD VMD format will be the cheapest 1080P format on the market. A $149 and a $199 HD VMD player is launching this fall. Most likely the HD VMD format will be the first HDTV player that reaches the $49.99 price range followed by HD-DVD and then one day BLU-RAY. So on price the HD VMD will be a clear winner and will be able to offer prices cheaper compared to both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY formats.


5. Quote
“The company claims to have a catalog of more than 3,000 titles, although most of the bigger titles will be restricted for release in markets outside of the United States.
The international catalog includes such recent box office releases as “Apocalypto,” “The Queen,” “Blade,” “Lucky Number Slevin,” and “The Passion of the Christ,” in addition to international productions from Bollywood and Chinese film producers.
“What we’ve done is close deals in the last 12 months with many global content distributors around the world that license titles directly from the Hollywood studios and have the right to put it on any format they wish,” said Alexandros Potter, NME executive VP. “Thus, we have Hollywood titles available for Iceland, U.K., France, Germany, India, Australia, Brazil, Poland, Scandinavia and other areas.”

Fact number 5. Yes there are some interesting titles to own like the Passion of the Christ and Lord of the Rings that will be on the HD VMD format in 1080P. People that are format neutral and own either a dual format player or both a BLU-RAY and HD-DVD player most likely are not going to purchase a third HDTV format called HD VMD to play a select few titles. Unless the HD VMD format can secure major support from Hollywood studios and name brand consumer electronics manufactories then the format is most likely going to fail. Yes there might be room for both HD-DVD and BLU-RAY but I doubt there is also room for HD VMD in the HDTV market

In a worse case nightmare scenario with 3 HDTV formats to choose from they all could fail if most consumers decides to stick with a standard DVD players for under $50 that up converts to 1080P. Does anyone want to own a combo player that plays BLU-RAY, HD-DVD, and HD VMD discs so that the HDTV optical disc market can become a niche product like Laserdisc? It would be a scary scenario if some major Hollywood studio signed an exclusive agreement with the HD VMD camp. Then if one wanted to see all the movies one would need to own 3 separate players or one combo player that played all 3 formats.

Quote
“Next year, the company plans to bring HD VMD recorders to market, the company said.”
Where is the 3 format HDTV recorders that support BLU-RAY, HD-DVD, and HD VMD? Any chance we could see a 4th HDTV format launch in the future?

[HDTV1080P]

Here are the 1080P movies that are part of the HD VMD library. There are some good titles like Passion of Christ and Lord of the Rings that are not available on the BLU-RAY or HD-DVD format

• Hostage
• We Were Soldiers
• Apocalypto
• Lucky Number Slevin
• Valiant
• Saw II
• Saw III
• Lord of War
• Fireplace & Aquarium
• The Ark
• Help I'm A Fish
• El Cid
• Mid Summer Dream
• Passion of The Christ
• Angeles Ashes
• Babel
• 16 Blocks
• Set up
• Hoodwinked
• Oliver Twist
• Princesse
• La Planete Blanche
• Pulp Fiction
• Sahara
• Demande A La Poussiere
• Gosford Park
• The Descent
• Miss Potter
• The Queen
• Butterfly Effect 1
• Butterfly Effect 2
• Hitcher
• Black Sheep
• Lord of the Rings
• Diario De Um Novo Mundo
• Inside Out
• Avion
• Welcome to LazyTown
• Dr. Rottenstein
• Hero for a Day
• Defeated
• Rottenbeard
• Cry Dinosaur
• Secret Agent Zero
• Sleepless in LazyTown
• Happy Brush Day
• Pixelspix
• LazyTown’s New Super Hero
• Sports Day
• Crystal Caper
• Lazy Scouts
• My Treehouse
• Swiped Sweets
• Sportafake
• The Laziest Town
• Soccer Sucker
• Dear Diary
• Miss Roberta
• Sports Candy Festival
• Remote Control
• Sportacus Who?
• Zap it
• Records Day
• Ziggy’s Alien
• Play Day
• Prince Stingy
• Robbie’s Greatest Misses
• Dancing Duel
• LazyTown’s Greatest Hits
• Sportacus on the Move!
• LazyTown’s Surprise Santa
• Sailor et lula
• Scorpion
• Le caïman
• Spy kids
• Scarie movie 2
• Les chansons d'amour
• Khakar Khakar
• Alaipayuthey
• Pammal K Sambantham
• Panchathanthiram
• Ghilli
• Boys
• Kandukondain Kandukondain
• Water
• Bheja Fry
• Bridge to Tarabitha
• Hanuman
• Malamal Weekly
• Constant Gardner
• Jo Jeeta Wohli Sikander
• Page 3
• Parzania
• Iqbal
• China Town
• Sholay
• Andaz Apana Apna
• Hum Aapke Hai Kaun
• Padosan
• Maine Pyaar Kiya
• Kashmir Ki Kali
• Pyaasa
• Sapoot
• International only
• Khanna & Iyer
• Inquilab
• Namak Haram
• Dil Ek Mandir

[ClaytonMG]

Wait... 7.1 through optical? Isn't that impossible? Same with Dolby Digital-Plus. Also, aren't these only available through 1 retailer and those movies aren't even in the U.S... Do I have any of that wrong so far?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Wait... 7.1 through optical? Isn't that impossible? Same with Dolby Digital-Plus. Also, aren't these only available through 1 retailer and those movies aren't even in the U.S... Do I have any of that wrong so far?

At launch there is suppose to be at least 20 movies available in the US and very few retailers will support the format.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

At launch there is suppose to be at least 20 movies available in the US and very few retailers will support the format.

Do you know which movies by chance? Or what studios are actually supporting this format?

[lch]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Do you know which movies by chance? Or what studios are actually supporting this format?

no US studio is supporting.
they are importing all the movie from oversea distributor.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

Do you know which movies by chance? Or what studios are actually supporting this format?

There is no major Hollywood studios supporting the format just independent studios. Amazon should have the 20 titles available for pre-order soon since they are carrying the player which will be shipping in October. I do not know which titles for sure will be launching in the US. I wish this format would be canceled at the last minute but it looks like it really is going to launch. That’s all we need is a third format.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

There is no major Hollywood studios supporting the format just independent studios. Amazon should have the 20 titles available for pre-order soon since they are carrying the player which will be shipping in October. I do not know which titles for sure will be launching in the US. I wish this format would be canceled at the last minute but it looks like it really is going to launch. That’s all we need is a third format.

I'm sure the consumer will have absolutely no problem telling the difference between DVD, HD upscaling DVD, HD DVD, and HD VMD.

Here's a poll question: Which player gets more exposure the NME HD VMD one or the Venturer HD DVD one?

In some ways this confusion actually helps Blu-ray. The BD studios simply continue the movie releases saying "available on DVD and high-def Blu-ray Disc" and the mindshare for HDM all goes to Blu-ray because it's obviously different from everything else.

Gary

[Mr. Hanky]

Here's the kicker- the cited bandwidth is 40+ and capacity is 30 GB which is all well and good (except potentially high disc noise from the rpms), but it will be interesting to see what bitrate and size encodings they actually implement on the actual movie titles. There doesn't seem to be anything requiring using full bandwidth/capacity, so for all we know, they could all be releases on 10-15 GB discs and sub-10 Mb/s bitrates (with commensurate impact to pq/aq). Think of the cost savings incentive on the disc manufacturing side if you could print a VMD on existing, plain jane dvd lines? It would beat hdvd manufacturing at its own game. The average joe consumer would be none the wiser, and VMD retailers would be pleased to price the disc releases lowballing typical hdvd prices.

The strategic incentive might be just enough for the BR consortium to promote VMD just for the sake of squeezing out hdvd, at its own game- rock bottom initial price points for retail and manufacturing. Then turnaround and make all BR players VMD compatible (in much the same way they are dvd compatible).

[BTBuck1]

HD-VMD has a camp?

I just don't see this format lasting 3 quarters.

[GaS]

They at least have some great bollywood titles.

[LynxFX]

If anything it is just going to confuse all the potential HD DVD buyers. HD DVD next to HD VMD next to DVD. All those names just start to blend together.

Now Blu-ray on the other hand, 2 short syllables that has 'new technology' right in the name.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

HD-VMD has a camp?

I just don't see this format lasting 3 quarters.

Does it matter? It would seem to be this totally confusing and almost identically named to HD DVD competitor has shown up to take away all the typical HD DVD claims:

Price - HD VMD can be cheaper
Disc production - HD VMD uses DVD replication equipment
Capacity - Less is better with VC-1 the miracle codec, so clearly HD VMD is the choice again
Audio - DD+ is good enough, and HD VMD doesn't force people into endless debate on the issue

And, it has even less studio support than HD DVD! Imagine the years of FUD on forums claiming Universal is about to support HD VMD!

[crackinhedz]

HD-VMD kinda reminds me of American Idol.


You know, with all those sad little people who obviously don't have good enough friends to tell them they suck ass before they go and make a fool of themselves to the whole world...yeah, kinda like that.

[w_tanoto]

this is the ugliest format ever.... with several layers, there would be hiccups when layer switch occur, just like on DVD, but this time, the number is 5x or 6x. No, this is even worse than HD DVD.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by w_tanoto

this is the ugliest format ever.... with several layers, there would be hiccups when layer switch occur, just like on DVD, but this time, the number is 5x or 6x. No, this is even worse than HD DVD.

Shhhh. No it isn't. It's better than HD DVD.

[w_tanoto]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Shhhh. No it isn't. It's better than HD DVD.

oh right.....
well, at least BD only has one "hiccups", while the others have more than 2.
I noted a hiccup in The Parent Trap DVD (Disney), but I haven't really noted in other DVD or BD

[Footloose301]

In all honesty I think all of these HD DVD, DVD, upscaling, and HD VMD is just going to confuse the average joe....

Its going to be interesting. I want to see what kind of quality these actually put out. I'm thinking its going to be like the low quality K-Mart brand stereos that tell you 300 watts and its actual is around 10watts haha. I'm thinking this "1080P" is going to be more like 480 or 720. Mark my words

I just don't see them producing a competitive, quality product at the same price. Even if they use red laser.

And as far as everybody keeps saying that its too late in the game. No. I don't believe so. I have a lot of neighbors. We live in a community in southwest florida and the average home cost is $450,000. Guess what? I'm the only one on my street that has an HD player. The rest have upscaling DVD players. On my street theres 22 homes. The people I have talked to say that they aren't buying anything because the players cost too much right now because one of them is going to be the winner and they don't want to make the wrong choice and blow all that money. They all have HDTV's and HD Cable. With this new technology coming out I have a feeling that people that are sitting on the hedge right now are going to just "wing it" and buy something that is not expensive at all because if it does go downhill then they don't have much invested.

Obviously this is just my $0.02 and I think it goes without saying because some of you are thinking it too. But, I hope HD VMD crashes and burns. Blu-ray should win this anyways. But Sony better get off their ass and get some commercials around. Especially during the superbowl and even better would be right before thanksgiving. They need to let the people know about Blu-ray before HD DVD gets package deals around and lowers prices for "Black Friday". Thats the biggest shopping day of the year and the time when my family buys ALL of their Christmas presents. If Sony doesn't do something before Thanksgiving then they're just shooting themselves in the foot.

Heck! Come Black Friday I might just go to Best Buy and Circuit City while everybody is standing in line at 5am and start promoting Blu and telling people that HD DVD is closing up shop and not coming out with any more movies after Christmas because Toshiba is switching to Blu-ray haha

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hanky

Here's the kicker- the cited bandwidth is 40+ and capacity is 30 GB which is all well and good (except potentially high disc noise from the rpms), but it will be interesting to see what bitrate and size encodings they actually implement on the actual movie titles. There doesn't seem to be anything requiring using full bandwidth/capacity, so for all we know, they could all be releases on 10-15 GB discs and sub-10 Mb/s bitrates (with commensurate impact to pq/aq). Think of the cost savings incentive on the disc manufacturing side if you could print a VMD on existing, plain jane dvd lines? It would beat hdvd manufacturing at its own game. The average joe consumer would be none the wiser, and VMD retailers would be pleased to price the disc releases lowballing typical hdvd prices.

The strategic incentive might be just enough for the BR consortium to promote VMD just for the sake of squeezing out hdvd, at its own game- rock bottom initial price points for retail and manufacturing. Then turnaround and make all BR players VMD compatible (in much the same way they are dvd compatible).

LOOK at what the CEO of the HD VMD format said:


“U.S. consumers have waited for an HD solution at DVD pricing; and with HD VMD, we believe we have met this desire through a stellar quality, high-definition disc and player at a price point that almost anyone can afford,” said NME CEO Mahesh Jayanarayan, in a press release. “With the launch into the U.S. market this month and an accelerating rollout of HD VMD content and retail distribution partners, we plan to drive adoption of HD in the home.”

http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...ticle_id=11137

the HD VMD web site also stated they are ready to use blue laser OPTICS also for production of HD VMD..what grade of blue laser would be needed for HD VMD...?

ONE Thing would be entertaining:
if already Blu-Ray optical pickup can already read the HD VMD discs also if the interactive software AND THE CHIPSET USED IN HD VMD just so happens to the chipsets that are in Blu-Ray players and the interactive software be JAVA...

that would be something

[lch]

then we let hd-dvd people to attack hd-vmd people on their yield rate
when the yield of 2 layers is already not perfect, how to go 3-8 layers with reasonable yield.

but then, if hd-vmd can easily turn out 4-8 layers for production, hd-dvd should be also easily achieve it as they claim the production line is the same.