Red Dwarf complete seasons 1-XIII box set 6th October

[SoundableObject]

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

They missed their window with it. There was a point after Dave lost Taskmaster when they were looking to recommission Dwarf, but Naylor's operations are ramshackle at the best of times and the litigation didn't help (completely avoidable too - all Rob Grant wanted was to be able to write for and co-produce the show again as his contract dictated, and to re-employ people like Ed Bye, decisions all the fanbase would have been behind). I think Dave were also aware that The Promised Land was yet ANOTHER Naylor production that had gone seriously off the rails - illness meant that Lovett had the flu during the first recording, the second recording was delayed, and Llewellyn was very ill throughout all of it meaning major rewrites as the episode was supposed to kill off Kryten who sacrificed himself to save the crew, ending with the original series 1 lineup sailing away into the distance.

They also had an open invitation from Phil McIntyre Entertainment to do a live show about 10 years ago which everybody was up for and that Naylor just dropped the ball on massively.

Rob Grant kicked Doug Naylor out the company. Nothing Doug Naylor could have done other than sue to rightly get back what was half his. Nothing to do with Rob Grant just wanting to write more.

You can't account for illness. Norm was ill during the first recording (I was there) but no more than a normal winter bug. You can't blame the production for illness.

Red Dwarf is also now co-produced by Baby Cow and has been since Series XI.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

All the master tapes for the Red Dwarf extras from 2002-2007 are all junked, every last one. Only the MPEG encodes on the DVDs survive. So this is the only way of doing it.

Can't they just rip the encodes from the original discs and plonk them on BD?

BD Supports MPEG2...

[GreatUncleBaal]

Grant and Naylor both seem to contradict each other a fair amount,
and there is stuff going back a long way, where Rob was saying he wasn't allowed to write another Red Dwarf book.

Both of them claim the other was the reason for the split, and neither of them seem to be aware why it happened.


There used to be lots about it on the Red Dwarf website, fairly impartial too,
but at some point they gave up.

Such a shame really, as they really seemed to work well and inspire each other's side projects at least a little.

[darrellmaclaine]

Originally Posted by SoundableObject

Rob Grant kicked Doug Naylor out the company. Nothing Doug Naylor could have done other than sue to rightly get back what was half his. Nothing to do with Rob Grant just wanting to write more.

For the record, that isn't what happened. Doug was consistently making independent senior decisions despite only being one of a three man board, without seeking a binding vote and acting like a sole trader (often vexatiously against the others) - Doug, his wife Linda and his son Richard were effectively running the company as a proxy board. Rob Grant's option allowed him the right of return and he had been consistently not only refused that courtesy but cut out of operations altogether. Rob also wanted other people - particularly Ed Bye - to be brought back onto the series for reasons of quality control, this was denied. Doug also vexatiously vetoed a Penguin reissue programme of the books for no valid reason, torpedoed the Phil McIntyre live show plans which would have significantly boosted the health of the company, and after refusing Rob's return as a contributor saying he wanted to do it all alone, brought his son Richard Naylor in to surreptiously co-write The Promised Land, and generally pushed back hard against anything which involved Rob contributing or just overseeing day to day operations of his own company.

After assurances that this behaviour would change were not met, the other two members - Rob Grant and Paul Jackson - ejected Doug from the board as per previously agreed terms of conduct. All along, all that had been required for Doug to stay was for him to act in a manner befitting a man with a 33% stake in a company and not a 100% one. Additionally, the company had several recent complaints from former contractors about a hostile work environment and/or constructive dismissal. I won't name names but there are at least three of them and one of those I've spoken to personally about it all.

Originally Posted by SoundableObject

You can't account for illness. Norm was ill during the first recording (I was there) but no more than a normal winter bug. You can't blame the production for illness.

You can't account for illness indeed but you need a contigency and a ship that is sailing steadily enough to weather storms. Robert Llewellyn was only there to end his tenure on the show and even that didn't happen.

Fact remains that since 1993, there have been too many major production breakdowns on Naylor Dwarf for it to be seen as anything other than a pattern - VII lost an episode, VIII's production went so badly it barely made broadcast, the movie fell through, Back To Earth lost its Unsmegged special, the entire second half of X went so disastrously wrong they almost had to call in the receivers. Even in the Baby Cow years the shoot for the XII episode 'Siliconia' collapsed and was cobbled together in the edit, and there was a huge four year production gap after XII that wasn't meant to have happened. So after all that, 'The Promised Land' going to air in a ramshackle state that didn't remotely resemble the original script, can't all be blamed on illness.

[darrellmaclaine]

Originally Posted by GreatUncleBaal

Grant and Naylor both seem to contradict each other a fair amount,
and there is stuff going back a long way, where Rob was saying he wasn't allowed to write another Red Dwarf book.

Both of them claim the other was the reason for the split, and neither of them seem to be aware why it happened.

There used to be lots about it on the Red Dwarf website, fairly impartial too,
but at some point they gave up.

Such a shame really, as they really seemed to work well and inspire each other's side projects at least a little.

I always thought it ridiculous it was so secret. There were always simmering tensions due to increasingly erratic behaviour on Doug's part, which originally came to a head in 1992 when Rob temporarily quit during production of Back To Reality (they reconciled working on the US pilot), but it ended a few years later because Rob bought a new house in central London and Doug threw a huge tantrum because it was harder for him to get to and he'd done it without seeking Doug's 'permission', which was the last straw for Rob. That is literally the entire, dull, boring, petty, childish reason.

[SoundableObject]

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

For the record, that isn't what happened. Doug was consistently making independent senior decisions despite only being one of a three man board, without seeking a binding vote and acting like a sole trader (often vexatiously against the others) - Doug, his wife Linda and his son Richard were effectively running the company as a proxy board. Rob Grant's option allowed him the right of return and he had been consistently not only refused that courtesy but cut out of operations altogether. Rob also wanted other people - particularly Ed Bye - to be brought back onto the series for reasons of quality control, this was denied. Doug also vexatiously vetoed a Penguin reissue programme of the books for no valid reason, torpedoed the Phil McIntyre live show plans which would have significantly boosted the health of the company, and after refusing Rob's return as a contributor saying he wanted to do it all alone, brought his son Richard Naylor in to surreptiously co-write The Promised Land, and generally pushed back hard against anything which involved Rob contributing or just overseeing day to day operations of his own company.

After assurances that this behaviour would change were not met, the other two members - Rob Grant and Paul Jackson - ejected Doug from the board as per previously agreed terms of conduct. All along, all that had been required for Doug to stay was for him to act in a manner befitting a man with a 33% stake in a company and not a 100% one. Additionally, the company had several recent complaints from former contractors about a hostile work environment and/or constructive dismissal. I won't name names but there are at least three of them and one of those I've spoken to personally about it all.

Yet it went to court and Doug Naylor won. And now has the rights to continue making Red Dwarf and a 50% ownership of GNP.

This is public information as per companies house. 17 Mar 2020 was when Doug Naylor was terminated, and 09 Mar 2023 was when he was reinstated following the end of the litigation.

Richard Naylor was already involved with the show. I really don't see what the issue is with that.

It is also false that Doug operated as a sole trader. Another major shareholder was Charles Armitage who you may remember was involved in the production of BTE and Series X (he was on the documentaries). And then sadly he died following the production of Series XI and XII for which he was no longer involved. He left as a shareholder following his death in 2017. This is again publicly available on companies house.

For clarification, the shareholding of the company up till after the production of Series XI and XII was 25% Doug, 25% Rob and 50% Noel Gay Television (split between Charles and Lesley Armitage).

And if you are solely referring to The Promised Land as when Doug went rogue... what would be the issue with writing/directing a successful special? It rated well, and the only reason they didn't get more was the litigation and covid. In fact Rob Grant claimed he had a contract for Doug to write and direct another.

[ViscountCarnacki]

Has anybody got an screenshots of the regraded early episodes? I've been wanted Red Dwarf on disc for a while now, but I want the original versions, not revised versions. How different do the episodes actually look?

[SoundableObject]

Originally Posted by ViscountCarnacki

Has anybody got an screenshots of the regraded early episodes? I've been wanted Red Dwarf on disc for a while now, but I want the original versions, not revised versions. How different do the episodes actually look?

If you have access to BBC iPlayer, they use the new versions.

[darrellmaclaine]

Originally Posted by SoundableObject

[Show spoiler]Yet it went to court and Doug Naylor won. And now has the rights to continue making Red Dwarf and a 50% ownership of GNP.

This is public information as per companies house. 17 Mar 2020 was when Doug Naylor was terminated, and 09 Mar 2023 was when he was reinstated following the end of the litigation.

Richard Naylor was already involved with the show. I really don't see what the issue is with that.

It is also false that Doug operated as a sole trader. Another major shareholder was Charles Armitage who you may remember was involved in the production of BTE and Series X (he was on the documentaries). And then sadly he died following the production of Series XI and XII for which he was no longer involved. He left as a shareholder following his death in 2017. This is again publicly available on companies house.

For clarification, the shareholding of the company up till after the production of Series XI and XII was 25% Doug, 25% Rob and 50% Noel Gay Television (split between Charles and Lesley Armitage).

And if you are solely referring to The Promised Land as when Doug went rogue... what would be the issue with writing/directing a successful special? It rated well, and the only reason they didn't get more was the litigation and covid. In fact Rob Grant claimed he had a contract for Doug to write and direct another.

Paul Jackson - Dwarf's original producer who helped set up GNP at the start - returned to the company in 2017 after Charles Armitage died, became what was then one third of GNP, and was heavily involved in day to day operations and trying to iron out the issues. He only left in 2023 after the settlement.

The issues with Doug were that he was not acting as one of multiple board members and was making decisions either on behalf of Rob and Paul without consultation, or actively against them, and was resisting both instructions to do otherwise and operational/creative advice from the other two. Hence a situation in which Doug's wife and son were getting more of a say than two thirds of the actual company. It wasn't just the TV series either - there were other enterprises and offers that Doug shut down without consulting the others.

[ViscountCarnacki]

Originally Posted by SoundableObject

If you have access to BBC iPlayer, they use the new versions.

Ah, thanks, will check it out!

[philthehip]

I think given that I own all of the previous releases I will probably skip this. Being grown up sucks! But if there is anything extra (highly doubtful) I will of course pick it up.

Great that the Bodysnatcher discs are included for those who want those. Who knows, maybe I will renege and pick up if it is cheap later so that I have newer discs for Bodysnatcher and the Smegs.

[Bungle1]

Originally Posted by darrellmaclaine

VIII's production went so badly it barely made broadcast, the movie fell through, Back To Earth lost its Unsmegged special, the entire second half of X went so disastrously wrong they almost had to call in the receivers. Even in the Baby Cow years the shoot for the XII episode 'Siliconia' collapsed and was cobbled together in the edit, and there was a huge four year production gap after XII that wasn't meant to have happened. So after all that, 'The Promised Land' going to air in a ramshackle state that didn't remotely resemble the original script

This is the first time I've heard this, other than the movie and Back To Earth losing the special. Where is this info coming from out of interest?

[MatOfTheDead]

am i right in thinking if you want the original versions the best way is the original dvds that came out back in 2002 onwards?

[darrellmaclaine]

Originally Posted by Bungle1

This is the first time I've heard this, other than the movie and Back To Earth losing the special. Where is this info coming from out of interest?

Which part of it? It's mostly public knowledge anyway?

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by MatOfTheDead

am i right in thinking if you want the original versions the best way is the original dvds that came out back in 2002 onwards?

If you like a bit of MPEG2 murk.

The upscale may be imperfect but they're the best way to watch the show IMO.

[drush9999]

So The Promised Land is being rebranded as Series XIII. Should have skipped that to avoid that number

[darrellmaclaine]

Originally Posted by drush9999

So The Promised Land is being rebranded as Series XIII. Should have skipped that to avoid that number

It was promoted at the time as "the thirteenth outing"...

[SoundableObject]

Originally Posted by Bungle1

This is the first time I've heard this, other than the movie and Back To Earth losing the special. Where is this info coming from out of interest?

It reads to me like exaggerations of what is known out there made to give a negative slant on it.

Series VIII - The recordings went over budget so Back in the Red and Pete were extended by an episode and the finale and another episode (which I believe was to be called Phwooaar)
Back to Earth - It was budgeted as a clip show. Doug Naylor said he thought they could make a full length story with the budget but it ended up being more ambitious than they originally thought. The timescales meant they had to drop Red Dwarf Unplugged and extend Back to Earth to three parts, utilising the slight increase in budget for an extra studio day.
Series X - Documented on the excellent series documentary, We're Smegged. The production nearly didn't happen because the audience weren't budgeted but Doug Naylor was adamant that it needed an audience. Scripts already written which involved location filming needed to be dropped, and that meant they started filming without all the scripts. Dear Dave ended up needing some green screen filming to be completed.
Series XII - Chris Barrie got ill filming Siliconia and had a few scenes filmed separately and a few bits not recorded due to time constraints. It is worth pointing out that they were up against it with filming time due to the amount of time it took in make-up for the many mechanoids that appeared.
The Promised Land - Robert Llewellyn got ill during filming, meaning the original first recording was moved to the following week and that recording was moved to the January. I was originally meant to be in the audience for the second recording but ended up being there for the first. From my first-hand experience, it was a very well-organised production, particularly with how they reacted to Robert's illness and still made the April air date.



You could just as easily point out the very many production problems that beset early Red Dwarf too. Danny John Jules nearly got badly hurt twice during the filming of Series VI (it is astonishing he didn't walk off the set after either of the incidents). Also the series started to be written without Cat due to a pay dispute. Also the series was rushed into production to meet a deadline and then series ended up being delayed anyway (no fault of theirs). And they were told by the head of comedy that they were not to film an episode as it wasn't possible (they'd just finished filming it). They ended up needing teleprompters built into the set for the last two episodes due to re-writes and unfinished scripts. A lot of this info is from the recent book Comedy, Chaos – And Cowboys! The Red Dwarf Companion.

Then you have Series V. The director was sacked halfway through (despite her work being the best the show has ever looked IMO). The series was left unfinished and needed reshoots to fill in the gaps. The tone of the series was completely off from the scripts but was saved in the edit (check the deleted scenes to see just how much like Series IV this could have ended up being). The writers ended up writing scenes they knew were likely to get cut just because they had nothing for Hattie Hayridge to do and they felt bad.

Series IV went massively underbudget and they ended up having to overspend late on and the ending of one episode didn't work and needed to be cut. Plus an episode came relatively close to going unaired due to the Gulf War.

Series III started with the whole debacle of Norman Lovett leaving.

The first series was budgeted at seven episodes, but then they only delivered six episodes because they reshot scenes from the opening episode and they hoped the BBC wouldn't notice. They were also rather embarrassed by Series I at the time because they asked the BBC not to repeat it before the start of Series II.

Can't think of much that went wrong with Series II except the Rhyl location filming not being the best conditions in Better Than Life.


It is rather funny that Series V and VI were probably the most disastrous of series production wise yet in my opinion they are the two best series of television ever made. I think ultimately it is just a difficult show to make on a BBC comedy budget.

[rotatingfish]

New cover art says 33 discs. I'd guess the 33rd is 'Just The Smegs'. The bloopers were spread across each series in the I-VIII set, might be nice to have them all in one place with the original links.

[Yautja_Warrior]

Not the worst cover art for the new boxset, not the best either but it could have been far worse I suppose lol