Babylon 5

[DKLou]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

The mark against the final year is the first half of the season, when they had to (for reasons) tread water a little bit. The final 7 or so episodes are very good and the finale is outstanding. This isn't a show that petered out

The first season is hit and miss because it's world-building, but give the show until the end of the second season and you'll have a fair idea of whether you're going to enjoy the rest of it.

The back end of season 2, and seasons 3 and 4 are some of the best genre television you're ever likely to see.

Excellent. Like I said, I have watched bits and pieces and did get roped in. I will snag the disc set for sure.

[JoeKryten]

I'm sure it's been mentioned upthread, but it is important to understand WHY s5 is so underwhelming (and also part of why s4 is so good).

Early on in the production of s4 the production team learned that their syndicated network (PTEN) was going away. It did appear quite certain that the show would have to end after 4 seasons. Since the story arc was set to a five year plan, JMS compressed all of the important story stuff into the back half of s4 to wrap up the story should they not get a s5. At the end of the day, negotiations resulted in TNT picking up the show for the final season and for several TV films.

So the final episode of the series was originally shot with s4 and the first shot episode for TNT was put at the end of s4 in it's place. (At the time, PTEN was holding back the last two or three episodes each season until the end of summer, having them lead directly into the next season).

As a result, the last half of s4 is banger after banger of plot heavy episodes and the first 2/3rds of s5 basically treads water...

[MarcelS1]

Originally Posted by JoeKryten

I'm sure it's been mentioned upthread, but it is important to understand WHY s5 is so underwhelming (and also part of why s4 is so good).

Early on in the production of s4 the production team learned that their syndicated network (PTEN) was going away. It did appear quite certain that the show would have to end after 4 seasons. Since the story arc was set to a five year plan, JMS compressed all of the important story stuff into the back half of s4 to wrap up the story should they not get a s5. At the end of the day, negotiations resulted in TNT picking up the show for the final season and for several TV films.

So the final episode of the series was originally shot with s4 and the first shot episode for TNT was put at the end of s4 in it's place. (At the time, PTEN was holding back the last two or three episodes each season until the end of summer, having them lead directly into the next season).

As a result, the last half of s4 is banger after banger of plot heavy episodes and the first 2/3rds of s5 basically treads water...

Especially the first part of season 5 is hard to get through because the Telepath storyline but when they are gone, it does get better towards the end. It had some exciting stories to tell from episode 14-15. And Garibaldi falling off the wagon again after his ordeal with Bester, which was also interesting.

[oddbox83]

No argument on the first half of season 5, hello Byron.

I really like that it gave them room to breathe for the final episodes. The show got a really strong, character-driven conclusion that didn't try to force it all into a single episode. He maybe had to stretch it slightly but given Sleeping in Light is more like a coda than finale, I imagine he always planned it to take at least a couple of episodes to end.

I think Crusade had issues even before TNT screwed it over, but we know fine well had it been given a chance, Crusade season 1 may well have just been another B5 season 1 - one that is far stronger when viewed in hindsight. Alas, we never got that chance.

[MarcelS1]

I so much like Gideon as the captain, he was a different kind of captain, perhaps out of necessity, but I really liked him. Would have loved to see more of him as captain and I think Max Eilerson would have become a fan favorite.
And I love that scene between Gideon and Lochley about her former husband Sheridan. Breaks me everytime!

[Geoff D]

I quite liked S5 on my most recent rewatch. There's a pattern to most of the seasons where they start out slow and then build to a tremendous finale and that last one is no different. Really enjoyed the whole thing TBH.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by MarcelS1

I so much like Gideon as the captain, he was a different kind of captain, perhaps out of necessity, but I really liked him. Would have loved to see more of him as captain and I think Max Eilerson would have become a fan favorite.
And I love that scene between Gideon and Lochley about her former husband Sheridan. Breaks me everytime!

All this stuff is why I suspect it was going to be a repeat of B5 season 1. Setting things up to give big payoff later on. Some of this foreshadowing is obvious, other bits we will never know.

I do wonder where Lochley would have gone in this? I'm damned sure that was setting something bigger up longer term way beyond the romance element, and was more than just giving Scoggins another contract.

Screwed over before the show was even canned. Last time I rewatched it, it was really striking how it's not just the costumes they'd buggered about with, but characterisations. Eilerson was neutered by TNT. Sort of ironic given what they wanted the show to be.

[MarcelS1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I quite liked S5 on my most recent rewatch. There's a pattern to most of the seasons where they start out slow and then build to a tremendous finale and that last one is no different. Really enjoyed the whole thing TBH.

I had so much trouble with Byron and how Lyta responded to him! No, I watch it every rewatch but I can't say that I really enjoy those first 11 or so episodes. Of course there are still moments I enjoy from it, but other than that, for me, it is just one big annoyance, these telepaths.

[MarcelS1]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

All this stuff is why I suspect it was going to be a repeat of B5 season 1. Setting things up to give big payoff later on. Some of this foreshadowing is obvious, other bits we will never know.

I do wonder where Lochley would have gone in this? I'm damned sure that was setting something bigger up longer term way beyond the romance element, and was more than just giving Scoggins another contract.

Screwed over before the show was even canned. Last time I rewatched it, it was really striking how it's not just the costumes they'd buggered about with, but characterisations. Eilerson was neutered by TNT. Sort of ironic given what they wanted the show to be.

Yes, I believe it would have gotten the same kind of treatment as B5, I have every confidence that it would have become a great piece of television. I'm not sure either what would happen with Lochley as a character, but one thing I know is that these two really had chemistry together.

Such a shame it didn't even got the chance to shine. Well all we can do is rewatch it every few years.

[Cruel Angel]

Originally Posted by MarcelS1

I had so much trouble with Byron and how Lyta responded to him!

I'd have preferred Ivanova in that role instead of Lyta. Just too bad JMS had to trigger that trap door.

[CouncilSpectre]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

I think Crusade had issues even before TNT screwed it over, but we know fine well had it been given a chance, Crusade season 1 may well have just been another B5 season 1 - one that is far stronger when viewed in hindsight. Alas, we never got that chance.

The annoying thing with Crusade is that the next episode up (To the Ends of the Earth) would have been Crusade's "Signs & Portents" episode. And the finale (End of the Line) would have been its "Chrysalis".

Crusade was similar in many ways to the main show in that it spent a lot of the time setting up its premise and its characters, had some nice hits and some real clunkers, but ultimately unlike the main show it got killed before it could get anywhere near its potential and consistency.

That said, I couldn't stand the music....!

Originally Posted by oddbox83

I do wonder where Lochley would have gone in this? I'm damned sure that was setting something bigger up longer term way beyond the romance element, and was more than just giving Scoggins another contract.

Given that Lochley is still EarthForce in Crusade and that eventually the series would have gone a bit Blake's 7, for drama it wouldn't surprise me if the plan was for EarthForce to task her with hunting down Gideon/the Excalibur.

There would also have been some sort of uneasy alliance with Bester, I'm sure that would have been fun....

[MarcelS1]

I agree, the music of Crusade was awful!