Los Vega's HT - Blu-ray Forum

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 03:31 PM

I never started an upgrade thread for myself, so I thought I would start one now. But my goal is not just to show-off my set-up, but also, hopefully, pass along knowledge and possibly inspire others with ideas.

Here's a recent pic of my set-up, please go to my gallery for more pictures since I will focus more on upgrades here.

First a little background:
My current set-up includes dual displays (60" plasma and 92" electric screen) in a multipurpose room. My goal has always been to set-up a 2.35:1 Constant Image Height (CIH) set-up, but like most of you, I do not have a dedicated HT room, which means I cannot build my own screen, which means my options are limited. My only solution was to find a retractable/electric 2.35:1 screen and the means to project it from my "zoom-less" projector..... oh and by the way, I am not rich - so a $2K+ screen and $2K+ anamorphic lens are out of the question.

2.35:1 Screen solution:
I'm not sure what gave me the idea and I am sure I am not the first to do this, but all of a sudden I thought, "how about a bigger 16:9 screen that I can drop down to a 2.35:1 aspect ratio? I researched this and calculated that I would need at least a 122" diagonal 16:9 acreen, so that I can drop down to the same height as the existing 92" screen, but a width of about 106", hence a 2.35:1 AR. Sure enough, I found an Elite 125" 16:9 electric screen for under $300! My existing screen is also an Elite electric screen. My plan was to hang the second screen below and in front of, but staggered from my first screen. This way the two screens could be dropped down with my Harmony One independently and with no interference. Here's a diagram to better explain my idea.

The beauty of this idea is that I would still have a 60" Plasma and with my existing projector/92" screen, I would still be able to watch 16:9 content from DirecTV and some blu-rays. But now, with a click of a button on my Harmony one, I will also be able to drop down the new screen and watch cinescope/2.35 content - which is the AR of most blu-rays! No more black bars! So here's my new screen set-up with 3 modes:

Mode 1: General/daytime use - Plasma

Mode 2: DirecTV and some Blu-rays - PJ w/ 16:9 Screen

Mode 3: Almost all other Blu-rays - PJ w/ 2.35:1 Screen

Screens in Action:

I am not finished with the vertical adjustment settings on the screens yet and I need to re-program my Harmony One but I'm close. Also note the bigger screen actually provides a 2.40:1 Aspect Ratio which is even better.

Final touches yet to come:
- Black Valance to cover the screen enclosures and chains.
- Masking material placed on the underside of the lower screen to eliminate reflection.
- Cable management coming from screens power and remote cables (not that visible but its there).

So, if you have the room and currently have about a 100" or smaller 16:9 screen, my approach may be an alternative solution. If you check online for 2.35:1 electric screens with some sort of masking, you will see prices ranging from about $2000 to about $3000! The cheapest I have found (for about $1500) is an Elite Osprey Dual Projection Screen which is a new solution and consists simply of a dual screen which drops down from the same enclosure (basically my set-up except I have two enclosures).

2.35:1 Projection solution (WIP):
At this point, if I had the zoom capability of newer projectors, I would be done. Sure, I would loose out on some resolution and black bar pixels would be wasted and possibly have a dimmer image, but I would be done.

So at this point I have two obstacles: (1) there is no way in hell I will spend upwards of $2000 on an Anamorphic lens and even B stock is not do-able (at least not right now) AND (2) I love my projector and I will not replace it. So the search continued, until I read about Do-It-Yourself Anamorphic lenses........

Most projectors have a "vertical stretch" which basically takes a 2.35 image with the top/bottom black bars and stretches it up and down, so that the image ends-up filling the full 16:9 screen (the image becomes skinny). What an anamorphic lens does is stretches the image horizontally (left/right) so that the image looks normal again, but now the image extends beyond the 16:9 screen on the left and on the right, hence the need for a 2.35:1 screen.

Through my research, I have come to learn that one can build an anamorphic lens by the use of what are called "trophy" prisms. These are simply glass wedge shaped recognition awards/trophies that are sold and engraved to give to deserving employees and cost from about $30 to $150 each (here are a couple of links for your information):
http://www.massillonplaque.com/produ...4&productid=85
http://www.precisioncrystal.com/cata...tal-wedge.html

Using two of these (without the engraving of course) and placing them in front of the projector in a certain angle, results in the said horizontal stretch of the image. Here's an image to help explain the concept.

There are many sources with better details and information about DIY anamorphic lenses available, so I will not reinvent the wheel, but here are a few links which may help (I thank Brain Sturgeon, Big Daddy and the AVS Forum for the resources):
http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=174
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=104914

This is the approach I am taking. I do not expect it to be the best but as an entry-level, get your feet wet, sub $200 approach, I am willing to give it a try. In the next few weeks I plan on making head-way on this, afterall I've already got the freaking screen, so talk about lighting a fire under my @$$. I will post my findings and progress. Stay tuned.

Comments Questions Welcomed.

Fors* · 10-07-2009, 04:49 PM

Great post and also a great

vega! I understand completely what you are trying to do, and for the first time I understand completely what is happening with the screen sizes and using the "stretch" capabilities with a 16:9 screen like I do myself. Unfortunately have already maxed out what width I have for a screen, so I wouldn't be able to do this in my present set-up. But hopefully other members might feel compelled to give this a try.

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Great post and also a great

vega! I understand completely what you are trying to do, and for the first time I understand completely what is happening with the screen sizes and using the "stretch" capabilities with a 16:9 screen like I do myself. Unfortunately have already maxed out what width I have for a screen, so I wouldn't be able to do this in my present set-up. But hopefully other members might feel compelled to give this a try.

Thanks.

I know about your situation because once I checked out your pictures and saw the incredible precision job you did on the screen placement, I knew this wouldn't work for you. My hope is that since so many are going the pj route and especially those who already have Zoom on their pjs, this would offer a hugely cost effective solution to a CIH 2.35 set-up.

igotcabada · 10-07-2009, 05:17 PM

Thanks for the info vega...

After trying to search for an affordable 2.35 motorized screen for weeks, I think i'm going to go the 1.78 route and see if i can just partrially extend it for 2.35 movies.

One option that the projector people suggested to me, was that DALITE can customize their Cosmopolitan Electrol 1.78 screens by cutting a portion of the bottom off and then finishing it off to create a 2.35 screen. They quoted me around $800 for a 120" one of these.

since i can get a motorized elite screen and the AE3000 for under $2,300, if i'm unhappy with the 1.78 screen and how its working out for me, i will only be out a couple hundred bucks if I want to get thet 2.35 screen..

igotcabada · 10-07-2009, 05:21 PM

questions about the harmony+elite screen..

Can you program the screen to come down to multiple lengths automatically? Or am i going to have to sit there and hit down/up until its perfect for the 2.35 height?

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igotcabada

questions about the harmony+elite screen..

Can you program the screen to come down to multiple lengths automatically? Or am i going to have to sit there and hit down/up until its perfect for the 2.35 height?

Unfortunately I have not found a way to have the Harmony start and then stop to a given height. However, as you probably know, the Elite screen can be set to drop down to whatever length you need, so that you just press down and it stops where you set it to stop by itself. However, it cannot be set to drop down to multiple lengths.

igotcabada · 10-07-2009, 05:29 PM

cool thanks...

Guess i can't have everything

rded · 10-07-2009, 05:37 PM

Vega,

Its about time dude! Anyway, great job on the HT: I know this thread will be awesome! With that said, when can I come over to gawk and oggle with awe @ your big HT?

Jwilly019 · 10-07-2009, 05:54 PM

I love the dual screens, great idea!

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rded

Vega,

Its about time dude! Anyway, great job on the HT: I know this thread will be awesome! With that said, when can I come over to gawk and oggle with awe @ your big HT?

When can I come over to gawk and oggle with awe @ your Dynos!

Thanks for the comments.

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwilly019

I love the dual screens, great idea!

Thanks. Through my research I found such ridiculous prices on these screens that I knew there had to be a different way. Then it hit me and I found it to be such a cost effective, relatively simple solution that I had to share it.

Now I am really excited and not expecting too much on the DIY anamorphic lenses and hope to make some progess on it soon. My screen is starting to feel very lonely.

rded · 10-07-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vega2K

When can I come over to gawk and oggle with awe @ your Dynos!

Thanks for the comments.

Haha! I know you were gonna say that

Well....you know where to find me

Johk · 10-07-2009, 07:19 PM

Really nice vega2K!

I love the idea of the two screens and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your anamorphic lens DIY.

Thank you for sharing!

vega2K · 10-07-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johk

Really nice vega2K!

I love the idea of the two screens and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your anamorphic lens DIY.

Thank you for sharing!

Thank you! I hope this can help others.

I am looking forward to the DIY AL. I have a source for the prisms lined-up and hope to hear from him soon. I am now working on the best method to mount an enclosure, which would include a sled and as much articulation as possible. I will post as I go along.

Fors* · 10-07-2009, 07:41 PM

I will definitely be dropping a look into this thread as you move long vega!

vega2K · 10-08-2009, 09:40 PM

While the DIY AL simmers, here's what I am thinking about as far as additional treatments to reduce reflections and covering-up things:

I didn't want to go with the usual ceiling coverings and instead I am thinking of draped material that will hang slightly, giving it a more modern look, while darkening-up the ceiling. I am thinking of a dark burgandy color (If I can find it). Also, I like how the screen enclosures would be covered by using a sort of valance, but instead I am thinking of using some of the same same material I used for the Star Ceiling, namely, the rigid insulation covered by velvet material. It is like a black hole when it comes to light absorption. What do you think?

Johnny Vinyl · 10-08-2009, 09:53 PM

Very,very nice setup Vega2K!

Although I'm not in the market for a Projector & Screen, the subject does interest me, and it's amazing to see what you and some of the other guys are doing with your HT environments.

I think Brain Sturgeon may have been an inspiration for some, but I also think he should start worrying!

The tricks you guys are using and having to incorporate out of necessity is truly inspiring and creative!

John

Fors* · 10-09-2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vega2K

While the DIY AL simmers, here's what I am thinking about as far as additional treatments to reduce reflections and covering-up things:

I didn't want to go with the usual ceiling coverings and instead I am thinking of draped material that will hang slightly, giving it a more modern look, while darkening-up the ceiling. I am thinking of a dark burgandy color (If I can find it). Also, I like how the screen enclosures would be covered by using a sort of valance, but instead I am thinking of using some of the same same material I used for the Star Ceiling, namely, the rigid insulation covered by velvet material. It is like a black hole when it comes to light absorption. What do you think?

Very cool Vega. Looks alot like what I did (see gallery), except mine are on hooks, so I can take it off and keep the wife happy!

I would use the same material if that stuff you used for the star ceiling acts like a black hole, LOL!!

vega2K · 10-09-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Very cool Vega. Looks alot like what I did (see gallery), except mine are on hooks, so I can take it off and keep the wife happy!

I would use the same material if that stuff you used for the star ceiling acts like a black hole, LOL!!

Hey isn't that something, I didn't checkout your ceiling treatment until now but it does look like we were thinking alike.

crazyBLUE · 10-09-2009, 01:42 AM

I am curious as to where you got your fiber optics for the ceiling vega ! This idea I have thought of would have nothing to do with what you have done ! I do like the affect of what you did for the room though !

10-07-2009, 03:31 PM	#1
vega2K Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Home Theater Gallery:68 Blu-ray collection:345 Trading Score:228	Los Vega's HT I never started an upgrade thread for myself, so I thought I would start one now. But my goal is not just to show-off my set-up, but also, hopefully, pass along knowledge and possibly inspire others with ideas. Here's a recent pic of my set-up, please go to my gallery for more pictures since I will focus more on upgrades here. First a little background: My current set-up includes dual displays (60" plasma and 92" electric screen) in a multipurpose room. My goal has always been to set-up a 2.35:1 Constant Image Height (CIH) set-up, but like most of you, I do not have a dedicated HT room, which means I cannot build my own screen, which means my options are limited. My only solution was to find a retractable/electric 2.35:1 screen and the means to project it from my "zoom-less" projector..... oh and by the way, I am not rich - so a $2K+ screen and $2K+ anamorphic lens are out of the question. 2.35:1 Screen solution: I'm not sure what gave me the idea and I am sure I am not the first to do this, but all of a sudden I thought, "how about a bigger 16:9 screen that I can drop down to a 2.35:1 aspect ratio? I researched this and calculated that I would need at least a 122" diagonal 16:9 acreen, so that I can drop down to the same height as the existing 92" screen, but a width of about 106", hence a 2.35:1 AR. Sure enough, I found an Elite 125" 16:9 electric screen for under $300! My existing screen is also an Elite electric screen. My plan was to hang the second screen below and in front of, but staggered from my first screen. This way the two screens could be dropped down with my Harmony One independently and with no interference. Here's a diagram to better explain my idea. The beauty of this idea is that I would still have a 60" Plasma and with my existing projector/92" screen, I would still be able to watch 16:9 content from DirecTV and some blu-rays. But now, with a click of a button on my Harmony one, I will also be able to drop down the new screen and watch cinescope/2.35 content - which is the AR of most blu-rays! No more black bars! So here's my new screen set-up with 3 modes: Mode 1: General/daytime use - Plasma Mode 2: DirecTV and some Blu-rays - PJ w/ 16:9 Screen Mode 3: Almost all other Blu-rays - PJ w/ 2.35:1 Screen Screens in Action: I am not finished with the vertical adjustment settings on the screens yet and I need to re-program my Harmony One but I'm close. Also note the bigger screen actually provides a 2.40:1 Aspect Ratio which is even better. Final touches yet to come: - Black Valance to cover the screen enclosures and chains. - Masking material placed on the underside of the lower screen to eliminate reflection. - Cable management coming from screens power and remote cables (not that visible but its there). So, if you have the room and currently have about a 100" or smaller 16:9 screen, my approach may be an alternative solution. If you check online for 2.35:1 electric screens with some sort of masking, you will see prices ranging from about $2000 to about $3000! The cheapest I have found (for about $1500) is an Elite Osprey Dual Projection Screen which is a new solution and consists simply of a dual screen which drops down from the same enclosure (basically my set-up except I have two enclosures). 2.35:1 Projection solution (WIP): At this point, if I had the zoom capability of newer projectors, I would be done. Sure, I would loose out on some resolution and black bar pixels would be wasted and possibly have a dimmer image, but I would be done. So at this point I have two obstacles: (1) there is no way in hell I will spend upwards of $2000 on an Anamorphic lens and even B stock is not do-able (at least not right now) AND (2) I love my projector and I will not replace it. So the search continued, until I read about Do-It-Yourself Anamorphic lenses........ Most projectors have a "vertical stretch" which basically takes a 2.35 image with the top/bottom black bars and stretches it up and down, so that the image ends-up filling the full 16:9 screen (the image becomes skinny). What an anamorphic lens does is stretches the image horizontally (left/right) so that the image looks normal again, but now the image extends beyond the 16:9 screen on the left and on the right, hence the need for a 2.35:1 screen. Through my research, I have come to learn that one can build an anamorphic lens by the use of what are called "trophy" prisms. These are simply glass wedge shaped recognition awards/trophies that are sold and engraved to give to deserving employees and cost from about $30 to $150 each (here are a couple of links for your information): http://www.massillonplaque.com/produ...4&productid=85 http://www.precisioncrystal.com/cata...tal-wedge.html Using two of these (without the engraving of course) and placing them in front of the projector in a certain angle, results in the said horizontal stretch of the image. Here's an image to help explain the concept. There are many sources with better details and information about DIY anamorphic lenses available, so I will not reinvent the wheel, but here are a few links which may help (I thank Brain Sturgeon, Big Daddy and the AVS Forum for the resources): http://www.zuggsoft.com/theater/prism.htm http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=174 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=104914 This is the approach I am taking. I do not expect it to be the best but as an entry-level, get your feet wet, sub $200 approach, I am willing to give it a try. In the next few weeks I plan on making head-way on this, afterall I've already got the freaking screen, so talk about lighting a fire under my @$$. I will post my findings and progress. Stay tuned. Comments Questions Welcomed. Last edited by vega2K; 10-07-2009 at 08:00 PM.

10-08-2009, 09:40 PM	#16
vega2K Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Home Theater Gallery:68 Blu-ray collection:345 Trading Score:228	While the DIY AL simmers, here's what I am thinking about as far as additional treatments to reduce reflections and covering-up things: I didn't want to go with the usual ceiling coverings and instead I am thinking of draped material that will hang slightly, giving it a more modern look, while darkening-up the ceiling. I am thinking of a dark burgandy color (If I can find it). Also, I like how the screen enclosures would be covered by using a sort of valance, but instead I am thinking of using some of the same same material I used for the Star Ceiling, namely, the rigid insulation covered by velvet material. It is like a black hole when it comes to light absorption. What do you think? Last edited by vega2K; 10-08-2009 at 09:46 PM.

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10-07-2009, 04:49 PM	#2
Fors* Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Pottstown, PA Home Theater Gallery:160 4K collection:12 Blu-ray collection:142 Trading Score:11	Great post and also a great vega! I understand completely what you are trying to do, and for the first time I understand completely what is happening with the screen sizes and using the "stretch" capabilities with a 16:9 screen like I do myself. Unfortunately have already maxed out what width I have for a screen, so I wouldn't be able to do this in my present set-up. But hopefully other members might feel compelled to give this a try.

10-07-2009, 05:17 PM	#4
igotcabada Special Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Location:NC Home Theater Gallery:22 Blu-ray collection:37	Thanks for the info vega... After trying to search for an affordable 2.35 motorized screen for weeks, I think i'm going to go the 1.78 route and see if i can just partrially extend it for 2.35 movies. One option that the projector people suggested to me, was that DALITE can customize their Cosmopolitan Electrol 1.78 screens by cutting a portion of the bottom off and then finishing it off to create a 2.35 screen. They quoted me around $800 for a 120" one of these. since i can get a motorized elite screen and the AE3000 for under $2,300, if i'm unhappy with the 1.78 screen and how its working out for me, i will only be out a couple hundred bucks if I want to get thet 2.35 screen..

10-07-2009, 05:21 PM	#5
igotcabada Special Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Location:NC Home Theater Gallery:22 Blu-ray collection:37	questions about the harmony+elite screen.. Can you program the screen to come down to multiple lengths automatically? Or am i going to have to sit there and hit down/up until its perfect for the 2.35 height?

10-07-2009, 05:29 PM	#7
igotcabada Special Member Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Location:NC Home Theater Gallery:22 Blu-ray collection:37	cool thanks... Guess i can't have everything

10-07-2009, 05:37 PM	#8
rded Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2008 Location:555 Naim Street Blu-ray collection:254 Trading Score:1	Vega, Its about time dude! Anyway, great job on the HT: I know this thread will be awesome! With that said, when can I come over to gawk and oggle with awe @ your big HT?

10-07-2009, 05:54 PM	#9
Jwilly019 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2008 Location:Columbus, OH Blu-ray collection:192 Trading Score:9	I love the dual screens, great idea!

10-07-2009, 07:19 PM	#13
Johk Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray collection:645 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:2	Really nice vega2K! I love the idea of the two screens and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your anamorphic lens DIY. Thank you for sharing!

10-07-2009, 07:41 PM	#15
Fors* Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Pottstown, PA Home Theater Gallery:160 4K collection:12 Blu-ray collection:142 Trading Score:11	I will definitely be dropping a look into this thread as you move long vega!

10-08-2009, 09:53 PM	#17
Johnny Vinyl Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:At the crossroad of Analogue Dr & 2CH Ave Home Theater Gallery:19 Blu-ray collection:205 DVD collection:7 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:8	Very,very nice setup Vega2K! Although I'm not in the market for a Projector & Screen, the subject does interest me, and it's amazing to see what you and some of the other guys are doing with your HT environments. I think Brain Sturgeon may have been an inspiration for some, but I also think he should start worrying! The tricks you guys are using and having to incorporate out of necessity is truly inspiring and creative! John

10-09-2009, 01:42 AM	#20
crazyBLUE Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Pacific Northwest Home Theater Gallery:89 Blu-ray collection:479 DVD collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 38 Trading Score:30	I am curious as to where you got your fiber optics for the ceiling vega ! This idea I have thought of would have nothing to do with what you have done ! I do like the affect of what you did for the room though !

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