Am I imagining things? - Blu-ray Forum

Zman2k2 · 11-27-2009, 02:32 PM

So just yesterday, I replaced the 16ga. speaker wire for my front three, with some 12ga. wire. I could swear that the highs are a little more detailed now, and they are a little louder. Is this something that makes sense, or am I imagining things? Just a placebo effect, or is there something to this? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just curious.

solarrdadd · 11-27-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman2k2

So just yesterday, I replaced the 16ga. speaker wire for my front three, with some 12ga. wire. I could swear that the highs are a little more detailed now, and they are a little louder. Is this something that makes sense, or am I imagining things? Just a placebo effect, or is there something to this? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just curious.

long story, you know you have opened yourself up to a world of hurt with this question! I expect before the day is over people will have you convinced that your crazy! the bottom line is you either did or you didn't, and the truth is if your happy with what your ears are telling you then be happy! Remember, your hearing this from someone who has speakers bi-wired and has taken the beating from folks who keep telling me (despite what i'm hearing) that you can't hear any difference.

best of luck, i'm happy your happy!

now the short story, yes, i believe you are hearing a difference to what degree, i'm not sure!

Fors* · 11-27-2009, 02:47 PM

All that matters is what you hear or think you hear......and like solarrdadd said, I hope this thread doesn't suffer a tragic, fiery death......

Zman2k2 · 11-27-2009, 02:48 PM

Fair enough. I knew it was a "loaded" question before I asked it. That's why I said I'm not trying to start anything. I don't know what to say. I swear there's something to it.

dewd · 11-27-2009, 02:55 PM

If your existing wire was adequate, then replacing it will not make a difference. There are a few here that are very defensive probably because they already spent way more money on cables than they needed too. Don't underestimate one's ability to convince themselves they hear something that is not there (placebo).

Look around and see if you can find any double blind test not run by a cable company that proves me wrong.

If you really want to know if there is a difference, you will need help from a friend. Have the friend randomly connect your old wire and your new (without you knowing which is being used). Each time listen to something you are familiar with and rate it as better/worse. Do this multiple times. If your new wires are truly better, you should be able to pick this out EVERY time.

Sorry to ramble, but I've seen so many threads lately touting the miracles of expensive wire. It just peeves me. If you have money to waste, I don't care. However, if you are trying to make your budget go as far as possible, don't believe the wire hype.

PS - Want to know what your speaker manufactures thinks of this wire snake-oil business? Take one of your drivers out of your expensive speaker and see what wire is used inside....

Zman2k2 · 11-27-2009, 03:04 PM

Oh, it's not expensive speaker wire. It's Monoprice "In-wall" 12ga. on a 100ft roll. I'm going to do the Speaker cable sleeving DIY that Johk made. I just don't have the techflex yet. But I just had the time and desire to cut the wire to length yesterday.

Rob J in WNY · 11-27-2009, 03:24 PM

In my early days of home theater (mid-'90s), I started off using something like 22 gauge wire for the center channel speaker, and I kept using that wire for a lot of years, despite having better wire for everything else. Over the first few years, I had even gone as far as upgrading my center channel speaker two times, and my receiver one time, keeping that same, skimpy center channel speaker wire.

With the volume up high, I could often hear the mid to high frequency sounds in the center sound "rough" but I always chalked it up to the recording quality on the DVDs.

One fine day, I replaced it with 16 gauge wire, and I can tell everyone for a certainty that it made all the difference in the world. I have been running 16 gauge wire on all my speakers since. I think I would like to move up to 14 or 12 someday, but my system's performance has been quite nice with the 16.

22 gauge wire is mighty small for today's typical receivers. The wire that comes with typical HTIB speakers is also way too small for use in any receiver upgrading, but it's easy for newcomers and those not in-the-know to just keep on using it as they move up.

Speaker wire can make a difference, especially when running a powerful system toward reference volume levels. However, at some point, the old law of diminishing returns begins to kick in. I don't feel I would get nearly the appreciable gains moving up from 16 gauge to 12, but I would just do it from a "hobbyist" standpoint - when I feel it is the weakest link in my setup, and for the fun of it.

But moving up from really cheap, small wire can make an audible difference, and I think that for some, especially newcomers, coming up from HTIBs and/or really small components, it's easier to ignore or not realize the benefits of more robust speaker wire when moving up to larger receivers and speakers.

Zman2k2 · 11-27-2009, 03:37 PM

That's just it Rob. I think I got a minor improvement in sound by swapping out the speaker wire. It didn't really cost me anything, as I bought the rolls for in-wall runs that I'm doing in my basement for the theater room I'm putting down there. This is the extra pieces. I didn't go into things thinking "I think I'll get better highs from this", I just wanted nicer looking cables, like the "Speaker cable sleeving" thread I posted earlier. But I'm almost positive I came out aurally better off. It's a head-scratcher for me, that's why I'm asking.

dewd · 11-27-2009, 03:43 PM

Don't get me wrong - I don't disagree that going from thin wire to thicker won't make a difference. My thing is going from 'thick enough' to thicker (or to uber expensive). At one point I had 12 gauge wire from my fronts (L/C/R). But after I got a great deal on some 14 guage wire from a brand I won't mention (it was a really great deal - like $.035 a foot), I replaced all my wire with it. I did not notice any difference.

quest88 · 11-27-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman2k2

So just yesterday, I replaced the 16ga. speaker wire for my front three, with some 12ga. wire. I could swear that the highs are a little more detailed now, and they are a little louder. Is this something that makes sense, or am I imagining things? Just a placebo effect, or is there something to this? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just curious.

Well at the very least you took some strain off your receiver. Thinner wire equals more resistance. Bigger wire less resistance and less work to drive your speakers. If not for " better " sound then at least you're ensuring you're not cooking your receiver.

Zman2k2 · 11-27-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quest88

Well at the very least you took some strain off your receiver. Thinner wire equals more resistance. Bigger wire less resistance and less work to drive your speakers. If not for " better " sound then at least you're ensuring you're not cooking your receiver.

Well, whether or not I hear a benefit, at least that's something that I can be happy with. That's a benefit that's worth it IMO.

Fors* · 11-27-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman2k2

Well, whether or not I hear a benefit, at least that's something that I can be happy with. That's a benefit that's worth it IMO.

Take care of your SC-05.......if you take care of it, it will take care of you......I love mine!

11-27-2009, 02:32 PM	#1
Zman2k2 Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Calgary, Canada Home Theater Gallery:5 Blu-ray collection:136 Trading Score:54	Am I imagining things? So just yesterday, I replaced the 16ga. speaker wire for my front three, with some 12ga. wire. I could swear that the highs are a little more detailed now, and they are a little louder. Is this something that makes sense, or am I imagining things? Just a placebo effect, or is there something to this? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just curious.

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11-27-2009, 02:47 PM	#3
Fors* Moderator Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Pottstown, PA Home Theater Gallery:160 4K collection:12 Blu-ray collection:142 Trading Score:11	All that matters is what you hear or think you hear......and like solarrdadd said, I hope this thread doesn't suffer a tragic, fiery death......

11-27-2009, 02:48 PM	#4
Zman2k2 Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Calgary, Canada Home Theater Gallery:5 Blu-ray collection:136 Trading Score:54	Fair enough. I knew it was a "loaded" question before I asked it. That's why I said I'm not trying to start anything. I don't know what to say. I swear there's something to it.

11-27-2009, 02:55 PM	#5
dewd Active Member Member since:Aug 2009 Location:Mechanicsburg, PA Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:25	If your existing wire was adequate, then replacing it will not make a difference. There are a few here that are very defensive probably because they already spent way more money on cables than they needed too. Don't underestimate one's ability to convince themselves they hear something that is not there (placebo). Look around and see if you can find any double blind test not run by a cable company that proves me wrong. If you really want to know if there is a difference, you will need help from a friend. Have the friend randomly connect your old wire and your new (without you knowing which is being used). Each time listen to something you are familiar with and rate it as better/worse. Do this multiple times. If your new wires are truly better, you should be able to pick this out EVERY time. Sorry to ramble, but I've seen so many threads lately touting the miracles of expensive wire. It just peeves me. If you have money to waste, I don't care. However, if you are trying to make your budget go as far as possible, don't believe the wire hype. PS - Want to know what your speaker manufactures thinks of this wire snake-oil business? Take one of your drivers out of your expensive speaker and see what wire is used inside....

11-27-2009, 03:04 PM	#6
Zman2k2 Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Calgary, Canada Home Theater Gallery:5 Blu-ray collection:136 Trading Score:54	Oh, it's not expensive speaker wire. It's Monoprice "In-wall" 12ga. on a 100ft roll. I'm going to do the Speaker cable sleeving DIY that Johk made. I just don't have the techflex yet. But I just had the time and desire to cut the wire to length yesterday.

11-27-2009, 03:24 PM	#7
Rob J in WNY Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2008 Location:'Western' N.Y. State (MEMBER OF THE "ECPP")™ Home Theater Gallery:24 4K collection:30 Blu-ray collection:486 iTunes collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 15	In my early days of home theater (mid-'90s), I started off using something like 22 gauge wire for the center channel speaker, and I kept using that wire for a lot of years, despite having better wire for everything else. Over the first few years, I had even gone as far as upgrading my center channel speaker two times, and my receiver one time, keeping that same, skimpy center channel speaker wire. With the volume up high, I could often hear the mid to high frequency sounds in the center sound "rough" but I always chalked it up to the recording quality on the DVDs. One fine day, I replaced it with 16 gauge wire, and I can tell everyone for a certainty that it made all the difference in the world. I have been running 16 gauge wire on all my speakers since. I think I would like to move up to 14 or 12 someday, but my system's performance has been quite nice with the 16. 22 gauge wire is mighty small for today's typical receivers. The wire that comes with typical HTIB speakers is also way too small for use in any receiver upgrading, but it's easy for newcomers and those not in-the-know to just keep on using it as they move up. Speaker wire can make a difference, especially when running a powerful system toward reference volume levels. However, at some point, the old law of diminishing returns begins to kick in. I don't feel I would get nearly the appreciable gains moving up from 16 gauge to 12, but I would just do it from a "hobbyist" standpoint - when I feel it is the weakest link in my setup, and for the fun of it. But moving up from really cheap, small wire can make an audible difference, and I think that for some, especially newcomers, coming up from HTIBs and/or really small components, it's easier to ignore or not realize the benefits of more robust speaker wire when moving up to larger receivers and speakers.

11-27-2009, 03:37 PM	#8
Zman2k2 Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Calgary, Canada Home Theater Gallery:5 Blu-ray collection:136 Trading Score:54	That's just it Rob. I think I got a minor improvement in sound by swapping out the speaker wire. It didn't really cost me anything, as I bought the rolls for in-wall runs that I'm doing in my basement for the theater room I'm putting down there. This is the extra pieces. I didn't go into things thinking "I think I'll get better highs from this", I just wanted nicer looking cables, like the "Speaker cable sleeving" thread I posted earlier. But I'm almost positive I came out aurally better off. It's a head-scratcher for me, that's why I'm asking.

11-27-2009, 03:43 PM	#9
dewd Active Member Member since:Aug 2009 Location:Mechanicsburg, PA Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:25	Don't get me wrong - I don't disagree that going from thin wire to thicker won't make a difference. My thing is going from 'thick enough' to thicker (or to uber expensive). At one point I had 12 gauge wire from my fronts (L/C/R). But after I got a great deal on some 14 guage wire from a brand I won't mention (it was a really great deal - like $.035 a foot), I replaced all my wire with it. I did not notice any difference.

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