HD DVD owners will have to buy new players

[johnnyd1]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

I gotta disagree. Fight fire with fire. They've been scarring consumers off for over a year, telling them how their players will be obsolete in a matter of a year or so if they go with blu-ray. It's time to repay the favor and say that 1. Either HD DVD has a smaller capacity and bitrate than blu-ray or 2. All players on the market now are obsolete. Then follow up with you really think 30GB is enough than why does King Kong not have a loseless track. You really think the clarity and PQ is the same then why is the blu-ray version of that animal documentary that uses a higher bit rate VC-1 encoding getting praised over the hd dvd version.

I agree !

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by mel2

it's plenty fair. for the past year we had to listen about how blu specs aren't finished but hd dvd's are according to duders. now the shoe is on the other foot. now the 100gb discs will play on blu players with just a firmware upgrade plus the new profiles are right around the corner now. so it looks like blu-ray has their ducks in order.

Irony is delicious in the right dose.

[Papi4baby]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

I gotta disagree. Fight fire with fire. They've been scarring consumers off for over a year, telling them how their players will be obsolete in a matter of a year or so if they go with blu-ray. It's time to repay the favor and say that 1. Either HD DVD has a smaller capacity and bitrate than blu-ray or 2. All players on the market now are obsolete. Then follow up with you really think 30GB is enough than why does King Kong not have a loseless track. You really think the clarity and PQ is the same then why is the blu-ray version of that animal documentary that uses a higher bit rate VC-1 encoding getting praised over the hd dvd version.

Originally Posted by johnnyd1

I agree !

So tell me did it feel good when they did it????
What can be accomplish by rubbing something in their face that is not even a 100% know fact, it would look bad on our part if it backfires. Think about that.

[Beta-guy]

wait we can play 100 GB discs with just a firmware update? I want to be clear, if this is the case, I'd love to see HD-DVD release 6L102 or 7L105 (depending if they using the 15 GB per layer or 17 GB per layer version of HD-DVD...) :P

if this is true then HD-DVD will eat our dust

[vw mofo]

Originally Posted by ps3andlovinit

I am..it's more than good enough for my needs. Having a more robust archive of all my mps3, family photos, home movies is highly appealing. Right now a single 50GB would archive all of our current digital family stuff.

HDD's never get taken off site despite the best intentions precisely because they are so convenient and they almost ALWAYS have extra space to be used that you don't want to give up and waste money. You can have all the RAID drives you want - they make no difference if your house gets broken into and stolen. Family life history gone in moments.

Optical discs are easy to store in the safety deposit box at our bank as backups. I have no intention of losing our family memories as more of it becomes digital.

Your presuming too much.

The bigger 50GB was also a big appeal to me as the MP3 collection is just under 34Gb. 50GB avoids having to dick around with splitting it up etc.

And as HD home movies and pictures become more the norm those 100GB and 200GB drives look even more appealing down the road.

I do understand where you're coming from on the protability aspect, but I still personally think that backing up to optical media is useless. Well useless is a strong word, but I can't think of any other way to describe it ATM. Lets not forget that writeable CD & DVD media have a shelf life and will eventually fail. It would be silly to think that this would not be true for BD-R's or HD DVD-R's. I have several CD's that I made back in 1999 or so that take for friggen EVER to load in my current drives and generate all sorts of errors and some older ones that will not read at all. So to be safe, I have "re-backed up" all of my important back-ups of family photo's, tax information, financial records, etc etc. I could care less about my music collection, it's easy enough to "re-obtain" that stuff if it gets lost.

The fact is right now, there is no good permanent backup solution. I really wish the price of solid state drives would come down a bit or that we could get some seriously large flash memory. The biggest I've seen was a 34GB USB Flash drive that cost $800 . But for now, I'll just stick to large external drives and hope for the best.

Anyways, thanks for the civilized conversation, I usually get beat up pretty badly around here when I go against the grain.

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by marzetta7

LOL...HD DVD and their incomplete specs

now hold on i own a blu-ray player but even i now the spec on blu-ray are incomplete.
yes we have profile 1.1 but what ive read about it,if the software supporting profile 1.1 may not play on profile 1.0 players.
since profiles are a hardware issue were screwed because will have to get a new player.
lets get the facts right.
by the way as a blu-ray supporter i want to know what the other guys doing.
the fact is right now there testing the 51g disc.and they made it clear a firmware update would solve that issue.
the issue i have with blu-ray is profiles [again] is a hardware issue and thats means you would have to buy a profile 1.1 player to get all the features of that profile.i really dont care about special features,or bd live.
but what would piss me off is will a profile 1.1 disc play on my 1.0 player.
if not, im mad cause im not gonna buy another bd player everytime a new profile comes out!
look i love blu-ray but this format has its short comings
hd dvd has its short comings too.
i dont pretend blu-ray is the greatist thing since sliced bread,cause it isnt
it is as been said many times blu-ray is a work in progress.
i just hope they care of us guys and gals when it comes to this profile thing and do the right thing.

[Smallville206]

Great if it turns out to be fact, but I will wait to brag about it to avoid the possibility of egg on my face if a simple update fixes the issue.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by vw mofo

I do understand where you're coming from on the protability aspect, but I still personally think that backing up to optical media is useless. Well useless is a strong word, but I can't think of any other way to describe it ATM. Lets not forget that writeable CD & DVD media have a shelf life and will eventually fail. It would be silly to think that this would not be true for BD-R's or HD DVD-R's.

No doubt they do but they are still far less fragile than the HDD for me and I see them as backup whereas HDD are always in use. As content increases I'm sure I will end up having sort of year end marathon sessions so that content is on multliple copies.. overlapping in time if you will..at some point if on-line backup speeds and cost are feasible - services like Amazon S3 etc may be an option or provide another level of redundancy. As our lives become digital - backups start becoming as important as they currently are to business IMO - at least they will after people lose it.

Originally Posted by vw mofo

I could care less about my music collection, it's easy enough to "re-obtain" that stuff if it gets lost.

I just don't want to spend the time re-ripping all those CD's...that would make BD burning seem instantaneous

Originally Posted by vw mofo

The fact is right now, there is no good permanent backup solution. I really wish the price of solid state drives would come down a bit or that we could get some seriously large flash memory. The biggest I've seen was a 34GB USB Flash drive that cost $800 .

And the prices may drop soon enough (over the next few years) for that to be more desirable..if it is then that's where I'll go. Hopefully the solid state drives will be 2.5 laptop SATA compatible drives I can just plug into the PS3 as well.

[Hayashi]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

now hold on i own a blu-ray player but even i now the spec on blu-ray are incomplete.
yes we have profile 1.1 but what ive read about it,if the software supporting profile 1.1 may not play on profile 1.0 players.
since profiles are a hardware issue were screwed because will have to get a new player.
lets get the facts right.
by the way as a blu-ray supporter i want to know what the other guys doing.
the fact is right now there testing the 51g disc.and they made it clear a firmware update would solve that issue.
the issue i have with blu-ray is profiles [again] is a hardware issue and thats means you would have to buy a profile 1.1 player to get all the features of that profile.i really dont care about special features,or bd live.
but what would piss me off is will a profile 1.1 disc play on my 1.0 player.
if not, im mad cause im not gonna buy another bd player everytime a new profile comes out!
look i love blu-ray but this format has its short comings
hd dvd has its short comings too.
i dont pretend blu-ray is the greatist thing since sliced bread,cause it isnt
it is as been said many times blu-ray is a work in progress.
i just hope they care of us guys and gals when it comes to this profile thing and do the right thing.

LoL did you actually read anything in this thread?

1) They never made it clear that a firmware upgrade would work its all speculation.
2) If you don't care about extras and if you actually read the thread you would know that the movie itself would still play on generation 1 BD players.

[Blu-Light]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

now hold on i own a blu-ray player but even i now the spec on blu-ray are incomplete.
yes we have profile 1.1 but what ive read about it,if the software supporting profile 1.1 may not play on profile 1.0 players.
since profiles are a hardware issue were screwed because will have to get a new player.
lets get the facts right.
by the way as a blu-ray supporter i want to know what the other guys doing.
the fact is right now there testing the 51g disc.and they made it clear a firmware update would solve that issue.
the issue i have with blu-ray is profiles [again] is a hardware issue and thats means you would have to buy a profile 1.1 player to get all the features of that profile.i really dont care about special features,or bd live.
but what would piss me off is will a profile 1.1 disc play on my 1.0 player.
if not, im mad cause im not gonna buy another bd player everytime a new profile comes out!
look i love blu-ray but this format has its short comings
hd dvd has its short comings too.
i dont pretend blu-ray is the greatist thing since sliced bread,cause it isnt
it is as been said many times blu-ray is a work in progress.
i just hope they care of us guys and gals when it comes to this profile thing and do the right thing.

Well, I guess you have not read a single response to your previous posts. I will try to spell it out a little better for you.

#1) Toshiba TL51 WILL NOT WORK with just a firmware update. You gotta trash the player and get a new one.

#2) ALL Profile 1.1/2.0 3.0 or whatever will play perfectly in your profile 1.0 player. This is FACT.

The only short coming of blu-ray at the moment is it has an inferior HD format disc weighing it down from complete market adoption namely HD-DUD. Bu-ray delivers in every department that is most important to a top quality home theater audio and video product. HD-DUD falls well short.

If you fail to understand this than I am beginning to think you are nothing more than another warp minded dud troll.

[Elessar]

Does no one care that Toshiba already announced that these discs WILL play on all the current players? DO you honestly think they would try to put something out that made the previous years efforts for nothin?

You people are idiots if you believe any of this garbage, it's spin and untruth at it's finest, something I have come to expect from these forums, but still sad to see it all the time. Are you so desperate for Blu to win that you'll straight out lie to get people to support it?

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

[Hayashi]

Originally Posted by Elessar

Does no one care that Toshiba already announced that these discs WILL play on all the current players? DO you honestly think they would try to put something out that made the previous years efforts for nothin?

You people are idiots if you believe any of this garbage, it's spin and untruth at it's finest, something I have come to expect from these forums, but still sad to see it all the time. Are you so desperate for Blu to win that you'll straight out lie to get people to support it?

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

Link to so called Toshiba official announcement that it does work...

pls?..haha

[Blu-Light]

Originally Posted by Hayashi

Link to so called Toshiba official announcement that it does work...

pls?..haha

Yeah, and Toshiba and the HD-DVD promotion group have a long standing history of telling the truth.

Hmm, didn't just a few days ago a member get slapped back into reality by the SS group?

[navychop]

Originally Posted by vw mofo

Who's going to want a 51gb or 100gb disc that's take for-freaking-ever to burn even at 4x when they can buy a 500GB external hdd and copy the contents of an entire drive in a matter of minutes?

Fact is, NEITHER format is good enough for data purposes.

I need to backup the server where I work. I currently use tape. I take the previous day's backup home each day, for offsite security. This is very common with small businesses. I also do not view tape as the most reliable medium. But to carry back and forth an external HDD- that's not practical. Too large, too prone to damage.

The competition is not with external HDDs. It's with tape. And it's no contest. As Blu-ray burners at the 100GB and (better) 200GB level become commonly available, and supported by backup software, the lower capacity tape solutions will disappear. Especially if they come out with R/W versions. And for as long as (write once) media cost is an issue, I can see using both- daily tape, weekly BD. Annual backups would certainly be on BD.

As regards speed- As has been pointed out, burning a BD can be faster than using an external HDD. Possibly even one that uses firewire. Today's 4x will be replaced by 8x. How fast did CD burners get up to? Doesn't really matter how fast, anyway. Most backups are done overnight. Backing up over lunch has some appeal, but there will be contention and verification of changed files to be concerned about. I think my current tape backup takes over 4 hours. Just doesn't matter- nobody is trying to use the server late at night.

Elessar- did you not notice at the beginning of this thread that industry experts seriously doubt that early model will EVER be able to play TL51s? THAT is what is being discussed- not FUD or rumors started by fan boys. Toshiba may be right- but there is serious doubt about that. And if they won't, I doubt TL51 will ever make it to market. Either way, there is doubt as to if HD DVD will even last that long. Name one country outside the U.S. where HD DVD has at least a 40% market share.

[BluCrusader]

Originally Posted by Elessar

Does no one care that Toshiba already announced that these discs WILL play on all the current players? DO you honestly think they would try to put something out that made the previous years efforts for nothin?

You people are idiots if you believe any of this garbage, it's spin and untruth at it's finest, something I have come to expect from these forums, but still sad to see it all the time. Are you so desperate for Blu to win that you'll straight out lie to get people to support it?

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

omg you are sooo gonna get banned

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Elessar

Does no one care that Toshiba already announced that these discs WILL play on all the current players? DO you honestly think they would try to put something out that made the previous years efforts for nothin?

You people are idiots if you believe any of this garbage, it's spin and untruth at it's finest, something I have come to expect from these forums, but still sad to see it all the time. Are you so desperate for Blu to win that you'll straight out lie to get people to support it?

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

Sure, sure... and the 1080p/24 firmware update is working just fine.

[BDAnr1]

HD DVD owners will have to buy new players

not really

We’re still looking at the backwards compatibility,” Knox said, adding a firmware update for existing HD DVD players might be needed, should studios eventually use the technology.

good to be a dualsupporter

[Blu-Light]

Originally Posted by BDAnr1

not really



good to be a dualsupporter

Keep kidding yourself. DUD is good as done and this little TL51 problem they have is just another reason that it will not survive in the long term.

[BDAnr1]

Originally Posted by Blu-Light

Keep kidding yourself. DUD is good as done and this little TL51 problem they have is just another reason that it will not survive in the long term.

Only the future can tell

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Elessar

Does no one care that Toshiba already announced that these discs WILL play on all the current players? DO you honestly think they would try to put something out that made the previous years efforts for nothin?

You people are idiots if you believe any of this garbage, it's spin and untruth at it's finest, something I have come to expect from these forums, but still sad to see it all the time. Are you so desperate for Blu to win that you'll straight out lie to get people to support it?

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

Do you care that Bill Hunt posted this yesterday:

"the HD-DVD Promotions Group quickly countered with a little damage control, making sure everyone knew that the DVD Forum was close to approving the spec for a triple-layer 51GB HD-DVD disc (click here). However, industry sources are telling us that NONE of the existing Toshiba HD-DVD players and drives are currently capable of reading them. Indeed, the Video Business story indicates that once the spec is finalized, "compatibility with current HD DVD player and recorders can be investigated." According to reports from Bits readers who were on at CEATAC this weekend, Toshiba reps told attendees that the triple-layer disc configuration would require a hardware change (the lens on existing drives reportedly isn't capable of moving to focus on the third layer), meaning that the existing drives are not firmware updatable. "

Who are you going to believe? You are the idiot if you take Toshiba's word. They are losing so badly they will do and say anything at this point.

Pathetic, absolutely pathetic.