BD Spec 1.1 ??? - Blu-ray Forum

sphdle1 · 10-24-2007, 02:20 AM

Here is a quote and response from the Michael Bay forum where a HD DVD guy is explaining to someone what the new features of the High Def stuff are like PiP, but goes on to say Blu-ray can't do it...Is this true, and if so, when will Blu be able to do these functions (would not be good if Blu can't do that functionality going into this debate...HD DVD guys will have a field day with that fact, if it is true)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Kalle
As it seems we've got people from both camps here I've got some questions. And it would be nice if you both could just post the technical data for both the formats.

Someone mentioned something about new interactivity that we don't have on the DVD. What exactly is that? Any examples out there?
Any differences in that area between Blu-ray and HDDVD? Or is the difference just in storage capacity?

On the Transformers HD DVD you have what is called a HUD. On other HD DVD's they call it IME. This is a PIP function. While the movie is playing another smaller screen will popup and do video commentaries while the movies is running in the back ground. Also dialog boxes will come up with interesting facts.

There are also several web enabled features. Like you can save your favorite scenes and go directly to them. You can upload these selections and share them with others. Or you can download other peoples selections and view them.
Another web feature you download a GPS tracker and as the movies is playing it shows you where in the world the scene takes place. It also tracks the bots, gives you their health status, and facts about them. All the while the movie is playing.
You can also download extra scenes.

This can all be updated and changed with new content in the future.

At this time Blu ray cannot do any of these functions. It is in their spec, but they have not implemented it as of yet.

Petra_Kalbrain · 10-24-2007, 02:36 AM

Unfortunately, it is true. There is no official date set out by which this functionality is going to be implemented, but they are working very hard on it. However, the bottom line on this point of arguement is that people aren't buying Hi-Def Media for the extra features and web functionality. First and foremost of importance is PQ and AQ. And clearly, Blu-ray supports the very concept of Hi-Def better than HD DVD. When we get the special extra features that will be great. But, nobody cares about it enough to sacrifice the original film experience to the lower common denominator!

clyon · 10-24-2007, 02:36 AM

No bd player has PIP, now.

I could care less what other people's favorite clips are, it is a waste of bandwidth, that is what Youtube is for!!!

What is this all about:

'It also tracks the bots, gives you their health status, and facts about them.'

???????

Leopold BUTTERS · 10-24-2007, 03:18 AM

the best part is HD DVD has all of that, and they praise it at the HD camp on how great it is and how we dont have it, but they still can't sell anywhere close to what BD can, so clearly, its worthless, the hardcores have already bought HD DVD for PIP and what not, the rest of the world who doesn't give a crap about it will never use it or care about it.

Mikeesracing · 10-24-2007, 03:28 AM

I don't know Michael Bay, But I have seen Pearel Harbor and I can tell you that he is all about PQ and SQ. He will not want to do anything to compromise PQ and SQ. Like most of us I doubt he will care about the gee wiz things that are included with the movie.

darinp2 · 10-24-2007, 06:30 AM

It is true that Blu-ray delayed their 1.1 and 2.0 stuff. As far as downloadable content, one nice thing about the main Blu-ray player is every one comes with 10GB or more of persistent storage space (20GB hard drive minimum, with some space used up already). The highdefdigest review of Transformers says, "With current HD DVD players limited to a maximum 168Mb of accessible storage, there's clearly not much room for truly exciting graphics or high-quality video and audio material." Not sure if that 168Mb is correct, but that is what it says. BD-Live players will have to have 1GB (or support for the user to add storage to get it to 1GB).

As far as PiP, Blu-ray can't do the real PiP right now where you can turn it on and off and move it around, but some discs take the dual encode approach for now where you can watch the movie with what looks like PiP, but is just one encode with the PiP included as part of the image (not overlayed by the player). It looks like this is approach taken for the upcoming Terminator 3 release and this method was used on Crank. I would expect releases using this method to generally be BD50s (with 20GB of space over HD30s that can be used for this psuedo-PiP in the shorter term).

If HD DVD had some date where they were going to fix their lower bandwidth they designed in (like Blu-ray is setup to add PiP and other features) I wouldn't be that bothered by it, but it seems like they have painted themselves into a corner where it would be hard to really increase HD DVD's bandwidth limitation much. But to be clear, I think HD DVD's standard PiP and networking support is an advantage for them.

--Darin

sphdle1 · 10-24-2007, 11:43 AM

Has Sony given any indication of when this new 1.1 will be officially ready and released? I assume it will just be a software update on the players?

Also, what is the 2.0 spec planning to give Blu-ray, and when is it possibly going to be ready?

bootman · 10-24-2007, 11:59 AM

The search function is your friend.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=18389

sphdle1 · 10-24-2007, 12:45 PM

Thanks Bootman...perfect!

So if I read correctly, Sony should have players out by the end of this month that can do 1.1 (if they haven't already)?

Also, does this basically mean that any new BD movies from now on can can and should take advantage of the 1.1 PiP, etc. specs/functionality?

(Note that in the debate, your thread link would be a good one to have posted for those on the fence getting educated about this stuff, because I found it extremely educational. And I likely the way it was laid out in point form).

glenn22 · 10-24-2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphdle1

Thanks Bootman...perfect!

So if I read correctly, Sony should have players out by the end of this month that can do 1.1 (if they haven't already)?

Also, does this basically mean that any new BD movies from now on can can and should take advantage of the 1.1 PiP, etc. specs/functionality?

(Note that in the debate, your thread link would be a good one to have posted for those on the fence getting educated about this stuff, because I found it extremely educational. And I likely the way it was laid out in point form).

It means that any new players released after the deadline must be 1.1 compatible, but not necessarily that players will be immediately available as of the end of the month. Also, studios are not required to release films that utilize the 1.1 features, but they most likely will start doing that once sales of 1.1 compatible players are high enough. It will also help things if current players can be updated to 1.1 via firmware, which hasn't been confirmed yet.

bootman · 10-24-2007, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphdle1

Thanks Bootman...perfect!

So if I read correctly, Sony should have players out by the end of this month that can do 1.1 (if they haven't already)?

Unfortunately no.
The new Sony players will be 1.0 since they will be released before the deadline.

The only only players so far this year that we know will be 1.1 are the two duo units from LG and Samsung.

kjack · 10-25-2007, 12:44 AM

That's OK since it looks like HD DVD is having trouble doing 1080p24 output correctly...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=846721

Anyway, the PIP, outline fonts, etc. needed for "profile 1.1" are all in development and moving along nicely.

What is most interesting is that while HD DVD has the lowest cost players today, the SoC and CE companies worked together to design BD to be able to offer the lowest cost players long term.

10-24-2007, 02:20 AM	#1
sphdle1 Active Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Nova Scotia, Canada	BD Spec 1.1 ??? Here is a quote and response from the Michael Bay forum where a HD DVD guy is explaining to someone what the new features of the High Def stuff are like PiP, but goes on to say Blu-ray can't do it...Is this true, and if so, when will Blu be able to do these functions (would not be good if Blu can't do that functionality going into this debate...HD DVD guys will have a field day with that fact, if it is true)? Quote: Originally Posted by Universal Kalle As it seems we've got people from both camps here I've got some questions. And it would be nice if you both could just post the technical data for both the formats. Someone mentioned something about new interactivity that we don't have on the DVD. What exactly is that? Any examples out there? Any differences in that area between Blu-ray and HDDVD? Or is the difference just in storage capacity? On the Transformers HD DVD you have what is called a HUD. On other HD DVD's they call it IME. This is a PIP function. While the movie is playing another smaller screen will popup and do video commentaries while the movies is running in the back ground. Also dialog boxes will come up with interesting facts. There are also several web enabled features. Like you can save your favorite scenes and go directly to them. You can upload these selections and share them with others. Or you can download other peoples selections and view them. Another web feature you download a GPS tracker and as the movies is playing it shows you where in the world the scene takes place. It also tracks the bots, gives you their health status, and facts about them. All the while the movie is playing. You can also download extra scenes. This can all be updated and changed with new content in the future. At this time Blu ray cannot do any of these functions. It is in their spec, but they have not implemented it as of yet. Last edited by sphdle1; 10-24-2007 at 02:24 AM.

10-24-2007, 06:30 AM	#6
darinp2 Expert Member Member since:May 2007	It is true that Blu-ray delayed their 1.1 and 2.0 stuff. As far as downloadable content, one nice thing about the main Blu-ray player is every one comes with 10GB or more of persistent storage space (20GB hard drive minimum, with some space used up already). The highdefdigest review of Transformers says, "With current HD DVD players limited to a maximum 168Mb of accessible storage, there's clearly not much room for truly exciting graphics or high-quality video and audio material." Not sure if that 168Mb is correct, but that is what it says. BD-Live players will have to have 1GB (or support for the user to add storage to get it to 1GB). As far as PiP, Blu-ray can't do the real PiP right now where you can turn it on and off and move it around, but some discs take the dual encode approach for now where you can watch the movie with what looks like PiP, but is just one encode with the PiP included as part of the image (not overlayed by the player). It looks like this is approach taken for the upcoming Terminator 3 release and this method was used on Crank. I would expect releases using this method to generally be BD50s (with 20GB of space over HD30s that can be used for this psuedo-PiP in the shorter term). If HD DVD had some date where they were going to fix their lower bandwidth they designed in (like Blu-ray is setup to add PiP and other features) I wouldn't be that bothered by it, but it seems like they have painted themselves into a corner where it would be hard to really increase HD DVD's bandwidth limitation much. But to be clear, I think HD DVD's standard PiP and networking support is an advantage for them. --Darin Last edited by darinp2; 10-24-2007 at 06:33 AM.

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10-24-2007, 02:36 AM	#2
Petra_Kalbrain Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Vancouver, BC 4K collection:5 Blu-ray collection:561 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:20	Unfortunately, it is true. There is no official date set out by which this functionality is going to be implemented, but they are working very hard on it. However, the bottom line on this point of arguement is that people aren't buying Hi-Def Media for the extra features and web functionality. First and foremost of importance is PQ and AQ. And clearly, Blu-ray supports the very concept of Hi-Def better than HD DVD. When we get the special extra features that will be great. But, nobody cares about it enough to sacrifice the original film experience to the lower common denominator!

10-24-2007, 02:36 AM	#3
clyon Special Member Member since:Feb 2007 Location:Just left of the Alpha Quadrant 4K collection:57 Blu-ray collection:824 Blu-ray reviews:8	No bd player has PIP, now. I could care less what other people's favorite clips are, it is a waste of bandwidth, that is what Youtube is for!!! What is this all about: 'It also tracks the bots, gives you their health status, and facts about them.' ???????

10-24-2007, 03:18 AM	#4
Leopold BUTTERS Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jun 2007 Location:AB,Canada Blu-ray collection:93 Blu-ray reviews: 2 Trading Score:1	the best part is HD DVD has all of that, and they praise it at the HD camp on how great it is and how we dont have it, but they still can't sell anywhere close to what BD can, so clearly, its worthless, the hardcores have already bought HD DVD for PIP and what not, the rest of the world who doesn't give a crap about it will never use it or care about it.

10-24-2007, 03:28 AM	#5
Mikeesracing Active Member Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Kuwait	I don't know Michael Bay, But I have seen Pearel Harbor and I can tell you that he is all about PQ and SQ. He will not want to do anything to compromise PQ and SQ. Like most of us I doubt he will care about the gee wiz things that are included with the movie.

10-24-2007, 11:43 AM	#7
sphdle1 Active Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Nova Scotia, Canada	Has Sony given any indication of when this new 1.1 will be officially ready and released? I assume it will just be a software update on the players? Also, what is the 2.0 spec planning to give Blu-ray, and when is it possibly going to be ready?

10-24-2007, 11:59 AM	#8
bootman Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:The Burghs	The search function is your friend. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=18389

10-24-2007, 12:45 PM	#9
sphdle1 Active Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Nova Scotia, Canada	Thanks Bootman...perfect! So if I read correctly, Sony should have players out by the end of this month that can do 1.1 (if they haven't already)? Also, does this basically mean that any new BD movies from now on can can and should take advantage of the 1.1 PiP, etc. specs/functionality? (Note that in the debate, your thread link would be a good one to have posted for those on the fence getting educated about this stuff, because I found it extremely educational. And I likely the way it was laid out in point form).

10-25-2007, 12:44 AM	#12
kjack Blu-ray Insider Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Milpitas, CA, USA	That's OK since it looks like HD DVD is having trouble doing 1080p24 output correctly... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=846721 Anyway, the PIP, outline fonts, etc. needed for "profile 1.1" are all in development and moving along nicely. What is most interesting is that while HD DVD has the lowest cost players today, the SoC and CE companies worked together to design BD to be able to offer the lowest cost players long term.

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