Animé HD remasters - Blu-ray Forum

androvsky · 10-25-2007, 05:11 AM

I just noticed Cowboy Bebop (among others) was announced to be released on Blu-ray in Japan in January (TRUE HD soundtrack w00t!). Anyway, seeing as how the American release was handled so nicely by Sony, I was wondering if the rather incredible English dub could be included on that disc. Subtitles is fine for the other movies, but the Bebop dub is something special, something Sony recognized when they went out of their way to get the actors from the TV series to dub the movie.

I think Chris Beveridge will confirm that a few people will happily import Bebop, especially with both language tracks.

jd213 · 10-25-2007, 05:15 AM

I hate to disappoint you, but I haven't heard about a BD release for Cowboy Bebop in Japan, just a new DVD set using HD remasters (remastered in high def, then scaled down to DVD rez). Got a link?

androvsky · 10-25-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd213

I hate to disappoint you, but I haven't heard about a BD release for Cowboy Bebop in Japan, just a new DVD set using HD remasters (remastered in high def, then scaled down to DVD rez). Got a link?

http://product.bandaivisual.co.jp/we...m_no=BCXA-0019

jd213 · 10-25-2007, 05:32 AM

Ah, the movie, I thought you meant the TV series. Cool, didn't know about the movie coming out, but I wish the TV series was being released in Blu as well.

WickyWoo · 10-25-2007, 05:36 AM

It won't have english to protect Sony's release. What Bandai does over there has nothing to do with what Sony does over here.

The "HD" Bebop set in Japan was cleaned up and upscaled. It was not a reshoot/rescan, and neither was Macross 7 or Escaflowne, or any of the other onese from "HD masters" While the film for Evangelion was rescanned a few years ago, it was only done in standard def and therefore any HD reissue would require doing the whole process over again.

jd213 · 10-25-2007, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

The "HD" Bebop set in Japan was cleaned up and upscaled. It was not a reshoot/rescan, and neither was Macross 7 or Escaflowne, or any of the other onese from "HD masters"

On what are you basing this claim? I've owned some of them, and in the booklet for Gundam 0083 Stardust Memory they specifically talk about remastering it in HD and the difference in resolution.

edit: Also, on the DVDs for the original Gundam TV series, there's an extra showing them re-scanning the film.

blindcat87 · 10-25-2007, 05:50 AM

I hope that Bebop will be coming to us soon, both movie and series. I would also like to put in my vote for US holders of anime titles to include lossless or at least advanced audio for English dub tracks as well as the origianal Japanese tracks. I hope that Paprika is a sign that this will be Sony's policy and that others will follow the example. For obvious reasons, barring my figuring out a way to learn Japanese, the dubs are my only option and the ability to enjoy them in the best possible quality is one of the things that most drew me to BD.

Thanks,

Chris

WickyWoo · 10-25-2007, 05:54 AM

On that I personally know people that consulted on the potential for a full-on rescan/HD redo and they didn't bite (don't ask me for details, I'm sorry I can't give them). The problem is that none of these shows actually exist on film in any kind of full form. They were all finished on analog video, and so were CG embellishments. Huge amounts are missing, and would have to be entirely redone in an HD environment, which is more money than they want to spend. That and BR releases like "Air" have all been upscaled(they did an HD opening for Air), and if they're not willing to put the money into new product..........

jd213 · 10-25-2007, 06:02 AM

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. There are a ton of new HD remasters coming out, and they are definitely not just cleaned up as there are ones that had composite artifacts on the old DVDs but have completely clean component masters for the HD Remaster version, and the framing of the film is different as well.

Frode will back me up on this, there is just too much evidence pointing to them all being completely new masters.

WickyWoo · 10-25-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. There are a ton of new HD remasters coming out, and they are definitely not just cleaned up as there are ones that had composite artifacts on the old DVDs but have completely clean component masters for the HD Remaster version, and the framing of the film is different as well.

Yes, because they've been cleaned up, upscaled digitally. They don't have tons and tons of the pieces of the shows to be able to even do it. MAYBE they could do Macross 7 out of the entire list of shows I've seen up, because I think that was a straight film shot.

They've been scrubbed, they haven't been half remade, which is what Esca and Bebop would require
There are dozens and dozens of shots in each episode with major CG work in them, the quality would be flipflopping back and forth constantly because they'd have to use SD for those shots.

Quote:

edit: Also, on the DVDs for the original Gundam TV series, there's an extra showing them re-scanning the film.

It was re-scanned to standard-def 10 years ago, and again, it exists as a pure film show, one that had broadcast prints made for it I might add, just like Macross did, that could very easily and cheaply be scanned again for HD. The older the better for getting true HD versions of these shows. All that mid-late 90s stuff is just impossible, and forget the early 2000s and up till recently because they'd literally have to rescan all the backgrounds and line art and repaint the entire show because they only exist as 480p digital

Shin wanted to scan Macross in HD when he did the remaster, but they didn't have the budget for it.

If you want to continue to discuss this, please make a thread for it and I'll move the posts over

jd213 · 10-25-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

It was re-scanned to standard-def 10 years ago, and again, it exists as a pure film show, one that had broadcast prints made for it I might add, just like Macross did, that could very easily and cheaply be scanned again for HD. The older the better for getting true HD versions of these shows. All that mid-late 90s stuff is just impossible,

Anything such as the CGI that wasn't done on film can be re-inserted from the video if needed, but the vast majority of the footage for the Escaflowne and Cowboy Bebop TV series are still traditional animation shot on film. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to believe that Bandai is lying when they say the remasters were done in HD on these shows just because you say so, secret insider sources or not.

Quote:

and forget the early 2000s and up till recently because they'd literally have to rescan all the backgrounds and line art and repaint the entire show because they only exist as 480p digital

Yes I know. But those aren't relevant to the discussion, as Bandai isn't re-releasing them on DVD with new HD masters.

edit:

Quote:

If you want to continue to discuss this, please make a thread for it and I'll move the posts over

That's fine, I'll let you make the thread though

androvsky · 10-25-2007, 06:26 AM

I've heard the same things as Wikiwoo about the TV series. Doesn't mean it's true, just means it's widespread.

However, for clarification, the good news is that the Bebop movie and Escaflowne movie, were, in fact, movies, printed on 35mm film and distributed to theaters in both Japan and the U.S. For people not familiar with them, both have very detailed background and even foreground work, and would easily benefit from a Blu-ray release. Both movies also have VERY distinctive soundtracks, so the audio side will benefit too.

I'm just wondering if Sony can work with Bandai Japan for the dub, or Sony can release their own Blu-ray in the U.S. Sony's already pleasantly surprised everyone once with the Bebop movie dub, I'm hoping they can do it again.

WickyWoo · 10-25-2007, 03:06 PM

Start

Uxi · 10-25-2007, 03:59 PM

I would really like Macross 7, Macross Plus, and Macross Zero, if not the original SDF: Macross all official Blu-ray region A releases with good English subtitles and PCM tracks, please.

Musashi · 10-25-2007, 04:10 PM

I like how Bandai is showing interest in remastering Bebop and others.

True story: by contrast, Toei is all about holding back better versions, especially when it comes to Sailor Moon. Geneon had plans to remaster both soundtracks (Eng & Jap) into a much cleaner DD 5.1. Toei blocked the move, saying it would cause Japanese viewers to import the US version, so we were left with ghetto-tastic low quality Mono leftover from the 80s. Not to mention the obscenely low print runs, but that's another story. Here's an idea Toei, why don't you make arrangements to let them remaster the soundtrack for you, and sell that version in Japan for yourselves. Better for business, better for fans. Toei's got some brain dead stockholders.

androvsky · 10-25-2007, 07:13 PM

For future reference, so I can better understand how to use the Insider's Thread, why was my first post moved? Would it help if I edited to clarify that I was talking about the movies, and not the TV series? I can see why the discussion on TV series was moved. Since Sony did the Bebop movie dub track, I was hoping a Sony insider might be able to comment on the possibility of them letting Bandai use the dub track.

Frode · 10-26-2007, 01:32 AM

Nothing was wrong with your original post, but it got moved because of the thread drift.

As far as the subject goes, CB TV and Esca TV are indeed very troublesome to get completely in HD. What I figured they did for the DVD releases of those is retransfer the elements shot on film, and then just splice together the rest with old masters. For a BD release there's several ways they can handle the CG depending on what production resources they have access to: 1. Upscale the CG scenes, 2. if they have the CG separately from the film, retransfer the film and upscale the CG + recomposite it, or 3. redo the CG elements from scratch. 3. would obviously give the best results, but require the most budget. Japanese animation studios have actually tweaked and reanimated parts of anime before for home video releases, so it's not that far fetched. However, even with the lower cost of redoing the CG with todays equipment, I'm not holding my breath. The market is still small.

As far as other HD masters go, yes there are several of them out there, Eva included. You can actually tell by the flaws in the DVD releases, as a result of bad conversion from HD to NTSC on some of them. Not only that, but the booklet that came with the original Eva renewal monolith set confirms it and goes into more detail on the restoration and what materials they used.

WickyWoo · 10-26-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

As far as other HD masters go, yes there are several of them out there, Eva included. You can actually tell by the flaws in the DVD releases, as a result of bad conversion from HD to NTSC on some of them. Not only that, but the booklet that came with the original Eva renewal monolith set confirms it and goes into more detail on the restoration and what materials they used.

Shin Kurokawa who did the Macross work so impressed Gainax that he worked on that one as well.

His Macross has been declared to be "better than any Japanese master" by Ishiguro, Kawamori, and other people who worked on the show.

I'm sure they'll license it back for any future Japanese release if they don't go one better and HD master it themselves

jd213 · 10-26-2007, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Shin Kurokawa who did the Macross work so impressed Gainax that he worked on that one as well.

His Macross has been declared to be "better than any Japanese master" by Ishiguro, Kawamori, and other people who worked on the show.

When and where?

Quote:

I'm sure they'll license it back for any future Japanese release if they don't go one better and HD master it themselves

They're already doing an HD master of Macross, it comes out in February: http://product.bandaivisual.co.jp/we...m_no=BCBA-3169

I personally didn't think the Macross remaster by AE was all that cracked up. It had unnecessarily added digital grain that looked rather fake since it didn't move in coordination with pans, etc., and I seem to remember the contrast looking too jacked up as well.

jd213 · 10-26-2007, 05:02 AM

And as you can see in this interview with Shin:

http://www.robotech.com/news/viewarticle.php?id=13

the source material used for the AE remaster was a poor-condition release print several generations from the original film, and he talks about how much it had to be computer processed. Blech, sounds almost as bad as FUNimation's "remastered" Dragonball Z release. Glad I sold my Macross set off years ago. I'm tempted to get the new HD Remaster version, but I'll wait for a Blu-Ray release.

10-25-2007, 05:11 AM	#1
androvsky Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007	Animé HD remasters I just noticed Cowboy Bebop (among others) was announced to be released on Blu-ray in Japan in January (TRUE HD soundtrack w00t!). Anyway, seeing as how the American release was handled so nicely by Sony, I was wondering if the rather incredible English dub could be included on that disc. Subtitles is fine for the other movies, but the Bebop dub is something special, something Sony recognized when they went out of their way to get the actors from the TV series to dub the movie. I think Chris Beveridge will confirm that a few people will happily import Bebop, especially with both language tracks.

10-25-2007, 03:06 PM	#13
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Anime HD remasters Start

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10-25-2007, 05:15 AM	#2
jd213 Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:less than 10 minutes from Akihabara	I hate to disappoint you, but I haven't heard about a BD release for Cowboy Bebop in Japan, just a new DVD set using HD remasters (remastered in high def, then scaled down to DVD rez). Got a link?

10-25-2007, 05:32 AM	#4
jd213 Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:less than 10 minutes from Akihabara	Ah, the movie, I thought you meant the TV series. Cool, didn't know about the movie coming out, but I wish the TV series was being released in Blu as well.

10-25-2007, 05:36 AM	#5
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	It won't have english to protect Sony's release. What Bandai does over there has nothing to do with what Sony does over here. The "HD" Bebop set in Japan was cleaned up and upscaled. It was not a reshoot/rescan, and neither was Macross 7 or Escaflowne, or any of the other onese from "HD masters" While the film for Evangelion was rescanned a few years ago, it was only done in standard def and therefore any HD reissue would require doing the whole process over again.

10-25-2007, 05:50 AM	#7
blindcat87 Expert Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Southern NM	I hope that Bebop will be coming to us soon, both movie and series. I would also like to put in my vote for US holders of anime titles to include lossless or at least advanced audio for English dub tracks as well as the origianal Japanese tracks. I hope that Paprika is a sign that this will be Sony's policy and that others will follow the example. For obvious reasons, barring my figuring out a way to learn Japanese, the dubs are my only option and the ability to enjoy them in the best possible quality is one of the things that most drew me to BD. Thanks, Chris

10-25-2007, 05:54 AM	#8
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	On that I personally know people that consulted on the potential for a full-on rescan/HD redo and they didn't bite (don't ask me for details, I'm sorry I can't give them). The problem is that none of these shows actually exist on film in any kind of full form. They were all finished on analog video, and so were CG embellishments. Huge amounts are missing, and would have to be entirely redone in an HD environment, which is more money than they want to spend. That and BR releases like "Air" have all been upscaled(they did an HD opening for Air), and if they're not willing to put the money into new product..........

10-25-2007, 06:02 AM	#9
jd213 Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:less than 10 minutes from Akihabara	I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. There are a ton of new HD remasters coming out, and they are definitely not just cleaned up as there are ones that had composite artifacts on the old DVDs but have completely clean component masters for the HD Remaster version, and the framing of the film is different as well. Frode will back me up on this, there is just too much evidence pointing to them all being completely new masters.

10-25-2007, 06:26 AM	#12
androvsky Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007	I've heard the same things as Wikiwoo about the TV series. Doesn't mean it's true, just means it's widespread. However, for clarification, the good news is that the Bebop movie and Escaflowne movie, were, in fact, movies, printed on 35mm film and distributed to theaters in both Japan and the U.S. For people not familiar with them, both have very detailed background and even foreground work, and would easily benefit from a Blu-ray release. Both movies also have VERY distinctive soundtracks, so the audio side will benefit too. I'm just wondering if Sony can work with Bandai Japan for the dub, or Sony can release their own Blu-ray in the U.S. Sony's already pleasantly surprised everyone once with the Bebop movie dub, I'm hoping they can do it again.

10-25-2007, 03:59 PM	#14
Uxi Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Southern California 4K collection:14 Blu-ray collection:191 Blu-ray reviews:9	I would really like Macross 7, Macross Plus, and Macross Zero, if not the original SDF: Macross all official Blu-ray region A releases with good English subtitles and PCM tracks, please.

10-25-2007, 04:10 PM	#15
Musashi Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Manchester, CT Home Theater Gallery:5 4K collection:25 Blu-ray collection:337 Blu-ray reviews: 1	I like how Bandai is showing interest in remastering Bebop and others. True story: by contrast, Toei is all about holding back better versions, especially when it comes to Sailor Moon. Geneon had plans to remaster both soundtracks (Eng & Jap) into a much cleaner DD 5.1. Toei blocked the move, saying it would cause Japanese viewers to import the US version, so we were left with ghetto-tastic low quality Mono leftover from the 80s. Not to mention the obscenely low print runs, but that's another story. Here's an idea Toei, why don't you make arrangements to let them remaster the soundtrack for you, and sell that version in Japan for yourselves. Better for business, better for fans. Toei's got some brain dead stockholders.

10-25-2007, 07:13 PM	#16
androvsky Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007	For future reference, so I can better understand how to use the Insider's Thread, why was my first post moved? Would it help if I edited to clarify that I was talking about the movies, and not the TV series? I can see why the discussion on TV series was moved. Since Sony did the Bebop movie dub track, I was hoping a Sony insider might be able to comment on the possibility of them letting Bandai use the dub track.

10-26-2007, 01:32 AM	#17
Frode Special Member Member since:Feb 2007	Nothing was wrong with your original post, but it got moved because of the thread drift. As far as the subject goes, CB TV and Esca TV are indeed very troublesome to get completely in HD. What I figured they did for the DVD releases of those is retransfer the elements shot on film, and then just splice together the rest with old masters. For a BD release there's several ways they can handle the CG depending on what production resources they have access to: 1. Upscale the CG scenes, 2. if they have the CG separately from the film, retransfer the film and upscale the CG + recomposite it, or 3. redo the CG elements from scratch. 3. would obviously give the best results, but require the most budget. Japanese animation studios have actually tweaked and reanimated parts of anime before for home video releases, so it's not that far fetched. However, even with the lower cost of redoing the CG with todays equipment, I'm not holding my breath. The market is still small. As far as other HD masters go, yes there are several of them out there, Eva included. You can actually tell by the flaws in the DVD releases, as a result of bad conversion from HD to NTSC on some of them. Not only that, but the booklet that came with the original Eva renewal monolith set confirms it and goes into more detail on the restoration and what materials they used.

10-26-2007, 05:02 AM	#20
jd213 Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:less than 10 minutes from Akihabara	And as you can see in this interview with Shin: http://www.robotech.com/news/viewarticle.php?id=13 the source material used for the AE remaster was a poor-condition release print several generations from the original film, and he talks about how much it had to be computer processed. Blech, sounds almost as bad as FUNimation's "remastered" Dragonball Z release. Glad I sold my Macross set off years ago. I'm tempted to get the new HD Remaster version, but I'll wait for a Blu-Ray release.

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