Format neutral supporters wanted - from HD DVD to Blu-ray! - Blu-ray Forum

tron3 · 11-02-2007, 03:07 PM

1. Read this whole thing before you respond.
2. Don't attack the guests of MY thread. Keep it civil. Hostilitles toward HD DVD end now.
3. Get used to the fact this site will have a LOT more neutral members from the fall out of blu-ray winning. There are more neutral supporters here now than you suspect.

Edited for the FUDers who refuse to read the whole thing and understand why this thread is here. Want the topic closed? Stop responding!

WE ENCOURAGE HD DVD ADOPTERS TO COME TO BLU-RAY, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Being neutral is just a side effect of doing so, not the intent!

Change is inevitable. Our perception of format neutral HDM adopters seems to be blu-members who have defected, and thus get treated like Benedict Arnold. In reality, some have also defected to blu-ray, while still others just decided on both, and are seeing the light - and it is blu. A few dumped HD DVD in favor of BD.

You double adopters really "feel the pinch" because you pay twice to enjoy a movie. Two players, two movie formats, and the inevitable win by blu-ray. I don't want to FUD you, but lets face facts like adults. If HD DVD had most of the unflinching studio support, blu-ray would be a high tech flash in the pan. Sometimes consumers don't get the choice. But you guys did. Because you pay twice, and pay in the end when HD DVD dies, you "feel the pinch" on this mingle of red and blue. That is why I affectionately call you guys, "The Purple Nurples".

Feel free to use it in your signature line.

Firstly, I DO NOT suggest blu-ray owners go neutral. That is not the purpose of this thread. I do suggest that some stern HD DVD fans deeply consider the losing proposition of staying red. Toshiba will string you along all the way to the bank. They have DEEP pockets. Enough money to buy support into a format no studio really WANTS to support, but they do for what ever monetary or corporate reason.

I keep saying that Warner sits on the fence with both feet hanging in camp blu. This becomes more evident with each passing week. Your last great strike at us was Paramount / Dreamworks. But how empty is that victory when it must be bought with corporate incentives, and not by the will of the consumer? It's 150 million EMPTY reasons which have everthing to do with corporate pride, greed, control, not giving you quality and CEO's with massive egos.

I know lots of you neutral members tend to stay underground because of the blu-fanboys here. Yes, some of us are just as bad as any red-fanboy. Look at me and my blu-blood following. It started out a mess, but that is calming down. I don't dispise HD DVD. Initially I thought it could win, I liked the idea. It really was a good idea how they souped up DVD. I thought it was great. Alas, compared to blu-ray, it is a day late and $99 short. That is why I won't support it, though I did get tempted for Transformers sake.

You are doing YOURSELF the favor by reading the hand writing on the wall. Toshiba uses Paramount as a corporate shield to cover that hand writing. But the blu lettering is going bleed through that shield when Warner goes camp blu. They say they will see after this Christmas season. Maybe they will ride the coat tails of the Paramount / Dreamworks contract to double dip. Even Paramount had to do damage control with Dreamworks because their own affiliate didn't like the HD DVD deal. Now, Dreamworks movies are produced under their name. Thus, we hope to see Dreamworks films on BD in the near future. Basically, a contract loophole.

What does that tell you about the future of HD DVD? I'm doing this in hopes of opening some eyes. Think twice before you invest any more money in this technology. Consider that DVD will always be with us. BD players will always be backwards compatible. When the world turns blu, HD DVD becomes the 8-track tape in a world of cassettes. No one will be backwards compatible with you.

Does this stop you from watching and enjoying your investment of hundreds of dollars in movies? Heck no, but like 8-track players, the day comes when it needs to be fixed. Ok, so you buy one on ebay. But will it receive any more firmware updates? Nope. Does HD DVD have hard coating to protect the disc from being damaged? Nope. Will you be able to replace that movie? Maybe not. Ebay isn't the savior here - it only prolongs death. Ebay will not fix your player, it may not have the one you want, and the certainly can NOT provide you with new movies or firmware updates to fix play back issues.

10 or 15 years after the format war ends, your only option for a player will be a used one 10 or 15 years old. At best, unopened new "old" stock. Maybe even refurbs. In essence, technology already 10 - 15 years old and growing older by the day. DVD will not suffer this fate because it will always be backwards compatible. Don't expect Toshiba or format neutral player to save you indefinately. Once a product looses support they will stick around only for warranty sake. Some 3rd party will take over support of the player because Toshiba and company wash their hands of it. "Thanks for the money and support, but here come the lions."

I am NOT telling anyone here to dump their HD DVD players or to stop buying movies. That is your choice. I AM encouraging people to adopt blu-ray sooner than later. As I have said, some day this place is going to have a captive audience. Many members will be victims of fall out. Fighting, finger pointing, and nya nya nya doesn't help anyone at that point. What's done is done. No going back.

Toshiba and Microsoft won't do the right thing. They will fight to the bitter end and use you as their Kamakazis. Do the right thing for the future of HDM. For yourself. Adopt blu, and let's stop the war ourselves. Amen?

E-Dogg · 11-02-2007, 03:11 PM

I don't have a problem with HD-DVD supporters who are now Blu supporters as well, but I do have a problem with Blu supporters who are now purple simply because we lost one great title "Transformers."

CptGreedle · 11-02-2007, 03:12 PM

I could care less if every movie was released on HD-DVD. I just want the same in return for Blu-ray.
I think if all things were even in this way, the market would STILLL show that Blu-ray is the format of choice.

HDJK · 11-02-2007, 03:19 PM

There is nothing wrong with being format neutral if you were there from the beginning. But the 'it doesn't hurt HDM' argument is the same excuse Swiss politicians use frequently: hey, we're neutral, we didn't do anything. But in any conflict or war doing nothing is still doing something.

Xerious · 11-02-2007, 03:22 PM

no problems with the NEU folks... i only have problems with those morons who actually think and still believe HD DVD is the best format.

glenn22 · 11-02-2007, 03:25 PM

No offence Tron3, but that post was REALLY long winded, I think you could have said the same in a paragraph.

SamInNorthCakalakey · 11-02-2007, 03:25 PM

An Amen to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

I could care less if every movie was released on HD-DVD. I just want the same in return for Blu-ray.
I think if all things were even in this way, the market would STILLL show that Blu-ray is the format of choice.

SNAP · 11-02-2007, 03:25 PM

Dogg,

Do you think that when Paramount goes Blu(eventually they will) that they'll release Transformers in Blu??

SNAP

Quote:

Originally Posted by E-Dogg

I don't have a problem with HD-DVD supporters who are now Blu supporters as well, but I do have a problem with Blu supporters who are now purple simply because we lost one great title "Transformers."

BLackie · 11-02-2007, 03:28 PM

I just went purple yesterday for $98 at walmart plus 5 free movies mail in rebate. Im tired of waiting and going in and seeing V for vendetta, matrix, batman begins, transformers, mummy, and bourne movies on the shelf and not being able to get them. I feel it will be 6-18 months before theres a winner in the war. Hey, if im wrong my movies still work and it its only $98.

tron3 · 11-02-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn22

No offence Tron3, but that post was REALLY long winded, I think you could have said the same in a paragraph.

I know, but paragraphs sometimes get blown over and have less impact. That allowed me to thoughtfully consider each point. Pluses and minuses of each way.

But I think everyone sees my point. It is better to help Red go purple because it helps everyone in the end.

mystiksuicide · 11-02-2007, 03:28 PM

I could care less if HD DVD survives as long as Blu lives on. But that's not going to happen. I also believe purple supporters do more than they believe. I don't think that they will have a final outcome of which format lives or dies but they do prolong the this so called "war"

E-Dogg · 11-02-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNAP

Dogg,

Do you think that when Paramount goes Blu(eventually they will) that they'll release Transformers in Blu??

SNAP

I know Paramount will go Blu and I will buy the title when it is released. I am being patient and buying it when their contract with HD-DVD is finished in a little over a year. I agree if you were neautral from the beginning than that's fine, but supporting both formats in my opinion prolongs the war. Regarding Warner it's obvious as CptGreedle pointed out...they sell better on our platform of choice anyway.

tron3 · 11-02-2007, 03:35 PM

Guys, consider why neutral is better. People exclusively in camp red do NOT buy blu-ray, at all - ever.

Neutral adopters DO buy blu-ray. Because the studio support is bigger, the numbers still lean toward camp blu.

Essentially creating their own 2:1 buy ratio. One BD is cancelled out by HD DVD, but plus one BD because of the average 2:1 ratio.

Paramount / Dreamworks stagnates this war. As well as the neutral studios. Neutral adopters are do more good than harm. See all statements above.

BLackie · 11-02-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tron3

Guys, consider why neutral is better. People exclusively in camp red do NOT buy blu-ray, at all - ever.

Neutral adopters DO buy blu-ray. Because the studio support is bigger, the numbers still lean toward camp blu.

Essentially creating their own 2:1 buy ratio. One BD is cancelled out by HD DVD, but still plus one BD because of the average ratio.

Paramount / Dreamworks stagnates this war. As well as the neutral studios. Neutral adopters are do more good than harm. See all statements above.

EXACTLY, next week as being neutral i will buy CARS and RATATUILLE and Aviator on HD DVD. SEE 2:1

HDJK · 11-02-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLackie

EXACTLY, next week as being neutral i will buy CARS and RATATUILLE and Aviator on HD DVD. SEE 2:1

You could buy Aviator on a BD: 3:0

See?

dobyblue · 11-02-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tron3

I know, but paragraphs sometimes get blown over and have less impact. That allowed me to thoughtfully consider each point. Pluses and minues of each way.

I thought it was an excellent post man, well done.

dobyblue · 11-02-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLackie

EXACTLY, next week as being neutral i will buy CARS and RATATUILLE and Aviator on HD DVD. SEE 2:1

Why would you want to buy Aviator on HD DVD when you have a 1080p Blu-ray player and the source is 1080p?

E-Dogg · 11-02-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDJK

You could buy Aviator on a BD: 3:0

See?

EXACTLY!!!!

Shin-Ra · 11-02-2007, 03:59 PM

An HD-DVD supporter would never come here posing as a 'neutral' high-def supporter with the intention of turning Blu members Purple. Never!

Humans are far too caring for each other, even strangers, to think about posting how they've gone purple to see how Blu members react negatively.

Blaumann · 11-02-2007, 03:59 PM

tron3, i really appreciate your efforts to "cool things down" and to embrace us "Purple Nurples". lol

But i have to say, that when i log into this forum, i leave my HD DVD side at the door and i only come here for Blu-ray (mostly reading only though). Now i could say a few things about what you wrote, but i guess i would drift into defending HD DVD at some point and that is frowned upon here, so i will not do it. Let´s just say, there are always at least two different sides of the same coin, and i like to choose for myself which side i prefer, may it be a disc, may it be an attribute of a format, may it be the interpretation of events.

One thing though about the "investment in movies": In 10 to 15 years, when there might be no more player of the loosing HDM format (yes, i am stating this in a neutral way), i will probably have double or tripple dipped on the movie by then. Either by buying it on the next "big video thing format" or simply out of the bargain bin of the winning format.

I even expect to replace the players every few years to profit from the improvements in playback quality. SD DVD players got better over time, i expect the same for HDM. It´s not like i plan to use my current gear for the rest of my life (never did)....

11-02-2007, 03:07 PM	#1
tron3 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2004 Location:New Jersey Blu-ray reviews:3	Format neutral supporters wanted - from HD DVD to Blu-ray! 1. Read this whole thing before you respond. 2. Don't attack the guests of MY thread. Keep it civil. Hostilitles toward HD DVD end now. 3. Get used to the fact this site will have a LOT more neutral members from the fall out of blu-ray winning. There are more neutral supporters here now than you suspect. Edited for the FUDers who refuse to read the whole thing and understand why this thread is here. Want the topic closed? Stop responding! WE ENCOURAGE HD DVD ADOPTERS TO COME TO BLU-RAY, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Being neutral is just a side effect of doing so, not the intent! Change is inevitable. Our perception of format neutral HDM adopters seems to be blu-members who have defected, and thus get treated like Benedict Arnold. In reality, some have also defected to blu-ray, while still others just decided on both, and are seeing the light - and it is blu. A few dumped HD DVD in favor of BD. You double adopters really "feel the pinch" because you pay twice to enjoy a movie. Two players, two movie formats, and the inevitable win by blu-ray. I don't want to FUD you, but lets face facts like adults. If HD DVD had most of the unflinching studio support, blu-ray would be a high tech flash in the pan. Sometimes consumers don't get the choice. But you guys did. Because you pay twice, and pay in the end when HD DVD dies, you "feel the pinch" on this mingle of red and blue. That is why I affectionately call you guys, "The Purple Nurples". Feel free to use it in your signature line. Firstly, I DO NOT suggest blu-ray owners go neutral. That is not the purpose of this thread. I do suggest that some stern HD DVD fans deeply consider the losing proposition of staying red. Toshiba will string you along all the way to the bank. They have DEEP pockets. Enough money to buy support into a format no studio really WANTS to support, but they do for what ever monetary or corporate reason. I keep saying that Warner sits on the fence with both feet hanging in camp blu. This becomes more evident with each passing week. Your last great strike at us was Paramount / Dreamworks. But how empty is that victory when it must be bought with corporate incentives, and not by the will of the consumer? It's 150 million EMPTY reasons which have everthing to do with corporate pride, greed, control, not giving you quality and CEO's with massive egos. I know lots of you neutral members tend to stay underground because of the blu-fanboys here. Yes, some of us are just as bad as any red-fanboy. Look at me and my blu-blood following. It started out a mess, but that is calming down. I don't dispise HD DVD. Initially I thought it could win, I liked the idea. It really was a good idea how they souped up DVD. I thought it was great. Alas, compared to blu-ray, it is a day late and $99 short. That is why I won't support it, though I did get tempted for Transformers sake. You are doing YOURSELF the favor by reading the hand writing on the wall. Toshiba uses Paramount as a corporate shield to cover that hand writing. But the blu lettering is going bleed through that shield when Warner goes camp blu. They say they will see after this Christmas season. Maybe they will ride the coat tails of the Paramount / Dreamworks contract to double dip. Even Paramount had to do damage control with Dreamworks because their own affiliate didn't like the HD DVD deal. Now, Dreamworks movies are produced under their name. Thus, we hope to see Dreamworks films on BD in the near future. Basically, a contract loophole. What does that tell you about the future of HD DVD? I'm doing this in hopes of opening some eyes. Think twice before you invest any more money in this technology. Consider that DVD will always be with us. BD players will always be backwards compatible. When the world turns blu, HD DVD becomes the 8-track tape in a world of cassettes. No one will be backwards compatible with you. Does this stop you from watching and enjoying your investment of hundreds of dollars in movies? Heck no, but like 8-track players, the day comes when it needs to be fixed. Ok, so you buy one on ebay. But will it receive any more firmware updates? Nope. Does HD DVD have hard coating to protect the disc from being damaged? Nope. Will you be able to replace that movie? Maybe not. Ebay isn't the savior here - it only prolongs death. Ebay will not fix your player, it may not have the one you want, and the certainly can NOT provide you with new movies or firmware updates to fix play back issues. 10 or 15 years after the format war ends, your only option for a player will be a used one 10 or 15 years old. At best, unopened new "old" stock. Maybe even refurbs. In essence, technology already 10 - 15 years old and growing older by the day. DVD will not suffer this fate because it will always be backwards compatible. Don't expect Toshiba or format neutral player to save you indefinately. Once a product looses support they will stick around only for warranty sake. Some 3rd party will take over support of the player because Toshiba and company wash their hands of it. "Thanks for the money and support, but here come the lions." I am NOT telling anyone here to dump their HD DVD players or to stop buying movies. That is your choice. I AM encouraging people to adopt blu-ray sooner than later. As I have said, some day this place is going to have a captive audience. Many members will be victims of fall out. Fighting, finger pointing, and nya nya nya doesn't help anyone at that point. What's done is done. No going back. Toshiba and Microsoft won't do the right thing. They will fight to the bitter end and use you as their Kamakazis. Do the right thing for the future of HDM. For yourself. Adopt blu, and let's stop the war ourselves. Amen? Last edited by Deciazulado; 11-07-2007 at 05:30 AM. Reason: silly typo

11-02-2007, 03:35 PM	#13
tron3 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2004 Location:New Jersey Blu-ray reviews:3	Guys, consider why neutral is better. People exclusively in camp red do NOT buy blu-ray, at all - ever. Neutral adopters DO buy blu-ray. Because the studio support is bigger, the numbers still lean toward camp blu. Essentially creating their own 2:1 buy ratio. One BD is cancelled out by HD DVD, but plus one BD because of the average 2:1 ratio. Paramount / Dreamworks stagnates this war. As well as the neutral studios. Neutral adopters are do more good than harm. See all statements above. Last edited by tron3; 11-02-2007 at 03:45 PM.

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11-02-2007, 03:11 PM	#2
E-Dogg Expert Member Member since:Jun 2007 Blu-ray collection:159	I don't have a problem with HD-DVD supporters who are now Blu supporters as well, but I do have a problem with Blu supporters who are now purple simply because we lost one great title "Transformers."

11-02-2007, 03:12 PM	#3
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	I could care less if every movie was released on HD-DVD. I just want the same in return for Blu-ray. I think if all things were even in this way, the market would STILLL show that Blu-ray is the format of choice.

11-02-2007, 03:19 PM	#4
HDJK Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2006 Location:Switzerland Trading Score:2	There is nothing wrong with being format neutral if you were there from the beginning. But the 'it doesn't hurt HDM' argument is the same excuse Swiss politicians use frequently: hey, we're neutral, we didn't do anything. But in any conflict or war doing nothing is still doing something.

11-02-2007, 03:22 PM	#5
Xerious Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray collection:238 Blu-ray reviews:4	no problems with the NEU folks... i only have problems with those morons who actually think and still believe HD DVD is the best format.

11-02-2007, 03:25 PM	#6
glenn22 Power Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Vancouver, Canada	No offence Tron3, but that post was REALLY long winded, I think you could have said the same in a paragraph.

11-02-2007, 03:28 PM	#9
BLackie Member Member since:Jan 2007	I just went purple yesterday for $98 at walmart plus 5 free movies mail in rebate. Im tired of waiting and going in and seeing V for vendetta, matrix, batman begins, transformers, mummy, and bourne movies on the shelf and not being able to get them. I feel it will be 6-18 months before theres a winner in the war. Hey, if im wrong my movies still work and it its only $98.

11-02-2007, 03:28 PM	#11
mystiksuicide Blu-ray Guru Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Miami Blu-ray collection:305 Blu-ray reviews:27	I could care less if HD DVD survives as long as Blu lives on. But that's not going to happen. I also believe purple supporters do more than they believe. I don't think that they will have a final outcome of which format lives or dies but they do prolong the this so called "war"

11-02-2007, 03:59 PM	#19
Shin-Ra Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:5 Trading Score:1	An HD-DVD supporter would never come here posing as a 'neutral' high-def supporter with the intention of turning Blu members Purple. Never! Humans are far too caring for each other, even strangers, to think about posting how they've gone purple to see how Blu members react negatively.

11-02-2007, 03:59 PM	#20
Blaumann Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:verge of breakdown	tron3, i really appreciate your efforts to "cool things down" and to embrace us "Purple Nurples". lol But i have to say, that when i log into this forum, i leave my HD DVD side at the door and i only come here for Blu-ray (mostly reading only though). Now i could say a few things about what you wrote, but i guess i would drift into defending HD DVD at some point and that is frowned upon here, so i will not do it. Let´s just say, there are always at least two different sides of the same coin, and i like to choose for myself which side i prefer, may it be a disc, may it be an attribute of a format, may it be the interpretation of events. One thing though about the "investment in movies": In 10 to 15 years, when there might be no more player of the loosing HDM format (yes, i am stating this in a neutral way), i will probably have double or tripple dipped on the movie by then. Either by buying it on the next "big video thing format" or simply out of the bargain bin of the winning format. I even expect to replace the players every few years to profit from the improvements in playback quality. SD DVD players got better over time, i expect the same for HDM. It´s not like i plan to use my current gear for the rest of my life (never did)....

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