Triangle (2009) discussion

[SquidPuppet]

Please use spoiler tags.

[SquidPuppet]

2/24/10

Originally Posted by CZAR

Great to hear. The more and more good reviews I hear of this film just assures I will be blind buying. Got Em!!

6/14/10

Originally Posted by CZAR

I almost blind bought this film this past weekend for 14.99 at frys but couldnt pull the trigger sorry. Haha. Got Em!!

[surfdude12]

I'm gonna have to watch this again tonite!!! Can't remember the last film I watched twice in 2 days!!

[SquidPuppet]

My origional review from 2/24/10

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Wow. That was a bit of work keeping up with that one, but well worth it. Talk about a mind maze. I have to say that I enjoyed the hell out of this movie. The ending could have been better, HOWEVER, I cant think of a way to improve it based on the "situation" of the lead character.

Hats off the the director and continuity people for keeping all those details properly sorted while telling a twisted and complex story.

Melissa George did a fantastic job. I cant imagine reading that script and not feeling overwhelmed knowing what would be expected of you.

I wouldnt call this a "horror" movie in the traditional sense at all. Like The Shining, its more of a psycho/suspense/thriller.

If you enjoy having you mind overworked and abused, being stressed and frightened, I highly recommend this.

Honestly, I was so lost in the insane web, I cant give you a PQ AQ rating.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

I'm gonna have to watch this again tonite!!! Can't remember the last film I watched twice in 2 days!!

Did you see my response in the other thread?

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Did you happen to catch the name of the oceanliner? It strongly supports JHiggys arguement. Irrefutably actually.

The oceanliners name was

[Show spoiler]SS Aeolus.

Aeolus was the father of Sisyphus.

You want overlap? I'll give you overlap.

[Show spoiler]It IS hell, but the portal for access is the Bermuda Triangle.

Leave The Shining thing alone. It got deflated long ago.

[csdot]

loved this movie. i cant remember the last horror movie to come out that i enjoyed this much. very original and pulls off the crazy twists and turns without skipping a beat.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by csdot

loved this movie. i cant remember the last horror movie to come out that i enjoyed this much. very original and pulls off the crazy twists and turns without skipping a beat.

Tell us what the story meant to you. Spoiler tags please, where applicable.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Did you see my response in the other thread?

yes, but don't know how to cut and paste between threads

I missed that! dang it!

[Show spoiler] The name of the boat, I mean. Yeah, that's another pretty solid reference to the Syphius (can't spell it) theory as discussed by Jhiggy. Also, I agree that "haunting/spirits" has no relevance in a true hell realm. I was still clinging onto a "living hell" perspective. Until you and Jhiggy explained the loop, particularly with your "nap reset", jhiggy's steps, and your most recent thorough explanation of the multiple Jess' and what each of their respective function is within the loop (i.e., new Jess enters ship, sees other Jess', and at some point conciously realizes "uh, ok I gotta fall off the boat later on when i struggle with another version of me..."), my thinking was still: there is just as much evidence supporting Shining (237, Axe, redrum writing, isolated environment, "kill them all" instructions from spirit="correct them" instructions from spirit in Shining, and the "loop" aspect similar to the recurring caretaker coming to overlook and killing off his family - Jack wasn't the first) as Syphilus (boat writing, painting, loop as a means to punishment, etc), but now I can see that this is happening in hell, thus the haunting/spirit aspect is irrelevant. I like your point about the fantasy genre, as I frequently suspend disbelief (Pan's Labrynth, Dracula, etc) for all sorts of fantasy thrillers.

what's your thoughts on a theme here? don't die while having regretful acts, as you may be condemned to a time loop in which you have to endure physical and mental anguish , only to be given the illusion that you can fix the act?

oh and I forgot to ask: Let's say Jess knows that her next step in the "loop" is to go load up the sniper rifle and kill the 3 people, then fall off the boat (after being pushed by another Jess). what if she flicks off the "loop" and walks to the end of the boat, takes off her clothes and starts to sunbathe? that's my new issue now: the problem with her knowing its a loop, is her knowing its a loop. is her incentive to fall of the boat the chance to see her son? but last time she fell of the boat she only saw him until the car crashed AGAIN. why not try sunbathing? maybe she'll see her son for 30 minutes this time instead of 10 minutes? how does she know until she knows? go against the loop? or rather, make a "new loop"? did we see her try that?

[surfdude12]

Squid: how is the transfer? I see 4/5 on the review, would you agree?

[jhiggy23]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

yes, but don't know how to cut and paste between threads

I missed that! dang it!

[Show spoiler] The name of the boat, I mean. Yeah, that's another pretty solid reference to the Syphius (can't spell it) theory as discussed by Jhiggy. Also, I agree that "haunting/spirits" has no relevance in a true hell realm. I was still clinging onto a "living hell" perspective. Until you and Jhiggy explained the loop, particularly with your "nap reset", jhiggy's steps, and your most recent thorough explanation of the multiple Jess' and what each of their respective function is within the loop (i.e., new Jess enters ship, sees other Jess', and at some point conciously realizes "uh, ok I gotta fall off the boat later on when i struggle with another version of me..."), my thinking was still: there is just as much evidence supporting Shining (237, Axe, redrum writing, isolated environment, "kill them all" instructions from spirit="correct them" instructions from spirit in Shining, and the "loop" aspect similar to the recurring caretaker coming to overlook and killing off his family - Jack wasn't the first) as Syphilus (boat writing, painting, loop as a means to punishment, etc), but now I can see that this is happening in hell, thus the haunting/spirit aspect is irrelevant. I like your point about the fantasy genre, as I frequently suspend disbelief (Pan's Labrynth, Dracula, etc) for all sorts of fantasy thrillers.

what's your thoughts on a theme here? don't die while having regretful acts, as you may be condemned to a time loop in which you have to endure physical and mental anguish , only to be given the illusion that you can fix the act?

oh and I forgot to ask: Let's say Jess knows that her next step in the "loop" is to go load up the sniper rifle and kill the 3 people, then fall off the boat (after being pushed by another Jess). what if she flicks off the "loop" and walks to the end of the boat, takes off her clothes and starts to sunbathe? that's my new issue now: the problem with her knowing its a loop, is her knowing its a loop. is her incentive to fall of the boat the chance to see her son? but last time she fell of the boat she only saw him until the car crashed AGAIN. why not try sunbathing? maybe she'll see her son for 30 minutes this time instead of 10 minutes? how does she know until she knows? go against the loop? or rather, make a "new loop"? did we see her try that?

[Show spoiler]The reason she goes through with it instead of sunbathing is because she knows it will result in being able to see her son for just a little bit before it all starts again. That's prob why I think the movie has a certain beauty to it, in that it's this tragic cycle that she cannot avoid but will continue to go through just to see her son.

Themes are your specialty, not mine!

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

[Show spoiler]The reason she goes through with it instead of sunbathing is because she knows it will result in being able to see her son for just a little bit before it all starts again. That's prob why I think the movie has a certain beauty to it, in that it's this tragic cycle that she cannot avoid but will continue to go through just to see her son.

Themes are your specialty, not mine!

But that's my question:

[Show spoiler]how does she know that sunbathing, or jumping off the boat before killing the 3 others, for example, won't result in a more "optimal loop"? we know the current loop only results in her seeing her son for a little bit, so why not try something new? Perhaps I'm being overly critical, but it just seems rather convenient that she is pre-programmed to not take any minor deviations from the loop, for a more optimal outcome via. a different loop. Squid (or you) said she is choosing to stay/enter the loop, when she suits up (in sniper gear), kills people, etc., but whats choice B? and what is her mental process when she says "yes, let's try the loop for the 100th time, rather than choice B"? maybe she has no memory of the previous "loops"? I thought squid's "nap reset" erased memory on the sailboat, but then once she got on the ship, the deja vous returned, but perhaps she doesn't have 100% memory of everything in the past "loops"? Just flashes here and there?

[jhiggy23]

Any chance this thread can be moved to the movie discussion section? We're not discussing the blu-ray but rather the movie itself.

[surfdude12]

http://horror-movie-a-day.blogspot.c.../triangle.html

check out this review. excerpt:

[Show spoiler]
Instead it’s more like Groundhog Day, where she has to keep repeating the sequence until she gets it right. But, in the film’s best invention, she is not going back in time per se, but instead everything is sort of regenerating. So as she tries again and again to escape the loop, she discovers evidence of previous attempts; bodies of seagulls pile up, a floor is littered with crumpled papers, all of which contain the same hand-written note, etc. Sort of like when you respawn on Halo and see your old corpse still lying on the ground near the rockets you died trying to obtain. These little “oh SHIT” moments are the highlight of the film, and I couldn’t help but wonder how much more fun I’d be having had I not seen a film with the same central gimmick.

It’s certainly a step below Timecrimes in the protagonist department. While I love to look at Melissa George, she’s simply not given a very compelling character to play here, and I got tired of her failed attempts to intercept the other people on the boat before her double did Why she can’t just approach one of her selves and explain what’s going on (there is certainly enough evidence thanks to the body piles) is never addressed, to the movie’s detriment.

It also doesn’t use its supporting cast enough. Again, I’m not complaining about having to look at George the entire time, but the others are dispatched too quickly time and time again; each of them get a single scene to play against George, but are otherwise sidelined throughout the process. One guy in particular all but completely disappears, which I guess is Smith’s way of making HIS dedicated scene all the more meaningful when it comes up (near the film’s end), but actually has the opposite effect, as his lack of involvement in the proceedings made the character feel less significant than he was designed to.

-interesting points. I think he answered my question in the first paragraph: she repeatedly fails to exit the loop throughout the film, as evidenced by the multitude of corpses and birds. but is this her trying to exit the loop or merely evidence of how many times she has gone through the loop (a counter)?

-anyone know what he means by the last paragraph point: which guy dissappeared? and what does he have to do with the end?

[neo_reloaded]

I liked this film a lot.

[Show spoiler]The story continuity was exceptional, and was a nice twist on the Groundhog Day / Timecrimes style as, unlike those films, there was no discreet break between loop iterations. Timecrimes was certainly close as the protagonist did multiply each time he went back in time, but eventually each copy of him save the last would inevitably enter the machine and we'd be back with just the "original." Not so here - as seemingly infinite loops and infinite copies occur, overlapping without rules save the "no new people arrive until all the old ones die" bit. The huge pile of handwritten notes was when it first really hit me how immense a loop this was - but even that could not prepare me for when Melissa George exited out onto the deck and saw the neverending pile of corpses of the red-headed girl. The redheads horror as she crawled, dying, past countless dead HERS - her eyes darting around in frantic terror. I was breathless for a moment.

I do have some issues - or maybe they're just questions really. Why was Melissa George unaware of what was going on in the "first" loop (or at least, the first we see) when it seems apparent so many other loops have already occurred? At first, this didn't concern me - even after seeing the hundreds of notes - as I figured that each Melissa was a discreet entity, and at some point she exited the loop and another "fresh" Melissa entered. I imagined that iterations of her died when she was knocked off the boat, and that "our" Melissa (the one the movie follows) would somehow avoid that death. But with the (spectacular) ending that shows that she herself, one specific iteration, is in fact in a closed loop, this question is raised. Why did she not know what was going on in the iteration we watched, considering it was not the first? Does she forget at some point, and will she enter this new iteration in a state of confusion as well? Or am I approaching this in entirely the wrong manner? Perhaps all iterations are occurring simultaneously, and this new loop is a true repeat and not a "new pass" so to speak. Meaning if there were exactly 106 notes in the iteration we saw, then there will again be 106 - not 107. Maybe only her consciousness is progressing in this larger, outer loop - instead of the way her full physical body was progressing through inner loops on the boat.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I liked this film a lot.

[Show spoiler]The story continuity was exceptional, and was a nice twist on the Groundhog Day / Timecrimes style as, unlike those films, there was no discreet break between loop iterations. Timecrimes was certainly close as the protagonist did multiply each time he went back in time, but eventually each copy of him save the last would inevitably enter the machine and we'd be back with just the "original." Not so here - as seemingly infinite loops and infinite copies occur, overlapping without rules save the "no new people arrive until all the old ones die" bit. The huge pile of handwritten notes was when it first really hit me how immense a loop this was - but even that could not prepare me for when Melissa George exited out onto the deck and saw the neverending pile of corpses of the red-headed girl. The redheads horror as she crawled, dying, past countless dead HERS - her eyes darting around in frantic terror. I was breathless for a moment.

I do have some issues - or maybe they're just questions really. Why was Melissa George unaware of what was going on in the "first" loop (or at least, the first we see) when it seems apparent so many other loops have already occurred? At first, this didn't concern me - even after seeing the hundreds of notes - as I figured that each Melissa was a discreet entity, and at some point she exited the loop and another "fresh" Melissa entered. I imagined that iterations of her died when she was knocked off the boat, and that "our" Melissa (the one the movie follows) would somehow avoid that death. But with the (spectacular) ending that shows that she herself, one specific iteration, is in fact in a closed loop, this question is raised. Why did she not know what was going on in the iteration we watched, considering it was not the first? Does she forget at some point, and will she enter this new iteration in a state of confusion as well? Or am I approaching this in entirely the wrong manner? Perhaps all iterations are occurring simultaneously, and this new loop is a true repeat and not a "new pass" so to speak. Meaning if there were exactly 106 notes in the iteration we saw, then there will again be 106 - not 107. Maybe only her consciousness is progressing in this larger, outer loop - instead of the way her full physical body was progressing through inner loops on the boat.

Great post neoloaded! great insight!

[Show spoiler]Your question about how does she forget at some point what has happened in prior iterations was pointed out by Squid, in the "nap trigger": when she naps on the sailboat, she essentially forgets the memories from all previous loops. Hence, why she wants to get on the ship. I don't recall the "nap trigger," because I missed that, but it makes complete sense. From that standpoint, her consciousness does initially evolve in the "outer loop" (outside ship), as she seems to figure out at the end of the film that she is in a recurring loop, but is then reset just before she gets on the ship.

Regarding your other point, i.e., is there:

(a) multiple loop iterations occurring (where the corpses will increase with each iteration of the loop), or

(b) a single loop iteration in which the number of corpses are fixed;

I think it is (a), but in the film we're seeing a single iteration (say, #106), with the camera jumping around from Masked-Jess to Boarding-Ship Jess, and back again, all within iteration #106 of the loop. When she returns will there be 107 bodies? I think so, but I"ll let Squid and Jhiggy. They've got a much better handle on this plot and theme than I do.

[Moefiz]

Its a mind game of a movie that for sure, at first twist you really have to pay attention to this movie..I saw this one time on DVD and still couldn't get the ending...have too see it back again to see what i missed

[surfdude12]

Just watched the first half for a second time

[Show spoiler]
Thoughts:

-I now see how killer-Jess was at the beginning (with great editing work), packing mommy-Jess in the trunk

-Greg tells Jess that he invited her sailing yesterday. She doesn't remember him inviting her. I assume that "yesterday" never happened, since we're in hell and since that was before the crash that initiated the loop?

-During the "nap reset", Jess dreams of waking up on the beach (after Sniper Jess is axed off the ship). Then she tells girl on boat "I had a weird dream". What was the purpose of this beach dream? Just random loop memory stuff in her consciousness?

-One thing struck me as they got on the ship: we never actually see them step from the boat onto to the ship. I don't know if this has any significance, but wanted to throw it out there.

-The biggest thing that struck me: Old-Jess drops her keys and New-Jess picks them up. Unlike every other clothing article and jewelry, which all Jess have (recall in Sniper room, Jess loses her heart pendant which falls into hole where a ton of heart pendants are), there is only one set of keys among all Jess'. Hence the keys are akin to a "loop baton" passed to each "new Jess" upon boarding the ship

-Old Jess (who has killed a sniper): tries to break out of the loop by talking to the tall dude, but accidentally kills him. IMO, I think there are room for variations within the loop. For example, the next "Old Jess", upon killing the sniper, may try to approach Greg, but Greg may be blown off the top deck by a gust of wind and his head may get crushed below. IN other words, "the loop will find a way" to force any attempted deviations to comply with the final result of everyone dead except Jess before the new boat comes in

-Did you guys hear masked sniper Jess say "kill me" , "please kill me" to the Axe Jess? Good stuff

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

yes, but don't know how to cut and paste between threads

I missed that! dang it!

[Show spoiler] The name of the boat, I mean. Yeah, that's another pretty solid reference to the Syphius (can't spell it) theory as discussed by Jhiggy. Also, I agree that "haunting/spirits" has no relevance in a true hell realm. I was still clinging onto a "living hell" perspective. Until you and Jhiggy explained the loop, particularly with your "nap reset", jhiggy's steps, and your most recent thorough explanation of the multiple Jess' and what each of their respective function is within the loop (i.e., new Jess enters ship, sees other Jess', and at some point conciously realizes "uh, ok I gotta fall off the boat later on when i struggle with another version of me..."), my thinking was still: there is just as much evidence supporting Shining (237, Axe, redrum writing, isolated environment, "kill them all" instructions from spirit="correct them" instructions from spirit in Shining, and the "loop" aspect similar to the recurring caretaker coming to overlook and killing off his family - Jack wasn't the first) as Syphilus (boat writing, painting, loop as a means to punishment, etc), but now I can see that this is happening in hell, thus the haunting/spirit aspect is irrelevant. I like your point about the fantasy genre, as I frequently suspend disbelief (Pan's Labrynth, Dracula, etc) for all sorts of fantasy thrillers.

what's your thoughts on a theme here? don't die while having regretful acts, as you may be condemned to a time loop in which you have to endure physical and mental anguish , only to be given the illusion that you can fix the act?

oh and I forgot to ask: Let's say Jess knows that her next step in the "loop" is to go load up the sniper rifle and kill the 3 people, then fall off the boat (after being pushed by another Jess). what if she flicks off the "loop" and walks to the end of the boat, takes off her clothes and starts to sunbathe? that's my new issue now: the problem with her knowing its a loop, is her knowing its a loop. is her incentive to fall of the boat the chance to see her son? but last time she fell of the boat she only saw him until the car crashed AGAIN. why not try sunbathing? maybe she'll see her son for 30 minutes this time instead of 10 minutes? how does she know until she knows? go against the loop? or rather, make a "new loop"? did we see her try that?

Sunbathing wont get

[Show spoiler]her TO her sun, she must leave the boat. She wants to get off the ship to be with her son. She doesnt really know that an attempt to leave the Loop will be futile. She doesnt really know that her attempts to change things will fail. Remember when she sees all the dead birds? She is trying to get away from the Loop, but it aint working. Then her boy dies and she chooses to re-enter the Loop to "Do things differently next time and save her son". The problem is, she takes a nap and during the nap she forgets everything that came before. Everything after the nap is a learning proccess.

Its hard for me to assign a theme because I dont know for sure if she is wrongly, or justly sent to hell. If its Justly, I would say, be conscious of every action you take and always do the right thing.

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Squid: how is the transfer? I see 4/5 on the review, would you agree?

Yes. Its pretty good, by no means reference, but no glaring issues. I cant even remember the score because I was so involved in the story, which is rare for me because I am a Scoreseeker. Maybe there wasnt even a score.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

But that's my question:

[Show spoiler]how does she know that sunbathing, or jumping off the boat before killing the 3 others, for example, won't result in a more "optimal loop"? we know the current loop only results in her seeing her son for a little bit, so why not try something new? Perhaps I'm being overly critical, but it just seems rather convenient that she is pre-programmed to not take any minor deviations from the loop, for a more optimal outcome via. a different loop. Squid (or you) said she is choosing to stay/enter the loop, when she suits up (in sniper gear), kills people, etc., but whats choice B? and what is her mental process when she says "yes, let's try the loop for the 100th time, rather than choice B"? maybe she has no memory of the previous "loops"? I thought squid's "nap reset" erased memory on the sailboat, but then once she got on the ship, the deja vous returned, but perhaps she doesn't have 100% memory of everything in the past "loops"? Just flashes here and there?

[Show spoiler]She has no idea at THAT time that this is the 100th time. She is only seeing a tiny part of the Loop for the VERY FIRST TIME in her head. She is experiencing it for the first time everytime she experiences it. She has already seen that the other Jess chooses to get knocked off and realizes that its her destiny too. The cycle presents those other as threats to her, so she MUST participate, play the game, suit up, kill em, get knocked off etc. If she screws with the Loop, she wont be able to see her son. Its not until her son dies and she has an opportunity to RE-BOARD the yacht that she can see the Loop in its entirety. Prior to that, she is just "going with the flow", but boarding the yacht is a clear and conscious decision, knowing exactly what she is getting into. She can see everything except the nap, because the nap erases everything that came before it

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

Any chance this thread can be moved to the movie discussion section? We're not discussing the blu-ray but rather the movie itself.

The Movie section is for films UNavailable on Blu-ray.