Audiophile (ie, good) sounding receiver with HDMI 1.3, TrueHD, and DTS MA? - Blu-ray Forum

DaViD Boulet · 11-15-2007, 08:12 PM

Just realized that the Pioneer 91 (about $1200) and 92 (about $1500) are not only HDMI 1.3, but have both TrueHD *and* DTS-HD Master decoding and pass full 1080p video so you can put the device in the path of the projector. Same with the new Sony ES gear.

Wow.

I have a B&K processor right now and it sounds great... much better than the Denon and Onkyo receivers that I had compared it against back when I bought it around 2002.

So, are there any "golden eared" among you who can really tell me how these new receivers sound? I don't mean "man the bass shook my couch!". I mean "wow, the midrange sounded smooth and natural and didn't sound bright and flattened like with typical receivers", if you get my drift.

I want to upgrade to advanced audio decoding and HDMI 1.3 but I don't want to take a step backwards in overall sound quality from my B&K.

I do have an outboard amp for 2-channel stereo music listening and just use the B&K as a pre-amp in that mode, so as long as the receiver sounds good as a stereo pre-amp I'll be happy with music listening.

Is there a forum where audiophile talk about this stuff?

thanks!

dave

werewuf · 11-15-2007, 08:40 PM

The Pioneer VSX-92 list is $1300, the VSX-91 list is $1000. I have the VSX-94-TXH ($1600) and the dynamic range when listening to True HD and DTS HDMA is vastly different than the older DD and DTS soundtracks found on regular DVD's. Little details pop out and the range from lows to highs opens up in a way that is quite stunning. Speaker quality does extend the audio payback from these receivers, so it's best to have ones that handle around 100 watts each.
I have compared older dvd's to blu ray and it is very surprising how much detail becomes available all around the room (ambient conversations in the surround sound speakers suddenly becomes understandable for example)
The sound becomes more fun and relaxing to listen to, with less ear fatique from the older harsher sounding soundtracks.

Clark Kent · 11-15-2007, 09:43 PM

That's going to be a very tall order to match the B&K processor's sound in a 1.3 receiver right now. The audiophile companies always move very slowly incorporating new technology and always seem a half year behind the lower end mass market companies in features like hdmi. I can't comment on the sound quality of the Pioneers you mention because I've never heard them. But I understand what you're going through. I have an older pre/pro that doesn't decode the new formats either and I have been itching to upgrade.

DaViD Boulet · 11-15-2007, 10:29 PM

Just discovered that Marantz has 2 new HDMI 1.3 recievers that do full advanced audio decoding (trueHD and DTS MA). The RS7002 is about $1200-1300 and the SR8002 is about $2000 (the main difference being slightly more power in the 8002 along with digital radio).

I've heard Marantz in the past and it's generally surpassed the sound qualtiy of Pioneer and the like. I'll be auditioning a unit next week and I'll report back on its "audiophile" performance...

dave

ottscay · 11-15-2007, 10:36 PM

I think the Marantz is likely to be your best bet for the next 6 months or so.

bootman · 11-15-2007, 11:14 PM

Yes, the Marantz units will be your best bet for this year.
If you can hold off a little longer this company is planing to come out with separates that have all of the new codecs.
I fully expect them to out perform any available AVR.
Check out the forum there if you have a chance.

www.emotiva.com

DaViD Boulet · 11-15-2007, 11:17 PM

can you tell me more about a time-line for separates? won't the pre/pro section be the same anyway... so I can always just add an outboard amp?

what forum? Thanks!

dave

werewuf · 11-16-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

I've heard Marantz in the past and it's generally surpassed the sound qualtiy of Pioneer and the like. I'll be auditioning a unit next week and I'll report back on its "audiophile" performance...

dave

I wouldn't be so quick to write-off the new Elites, I had the Lexicon DC-1 (a $5000 pre-pro that started the Logic 7 legend) and a rack of Hafler amps for years and my new VSX-94TXH is as clean, punchy and awesome as that set-up. I would have been hard pressed a few years ago to have even thought that any receiver would even keep up with any Lexicon processor, however, time and technology marches on. I put the 94 up against the Denon 4308 which lists for $2499 and the Elite knocked the Denon out of the park for sound quality, and proved to be a much better value. I would do a real world comparo and then decide.....

crackinhedz · 11-16-2007, 02:41 AM

Pioneer Elite VSX92TXH ($800)

supersix4 · 11-16-2007, 02:43 AM

McIntosh

always the right choice

ps3andlovinit · 11-16-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bootman

Yes, the Marantz units will be your best bet for this year.
If you can hold off a little longer this company is planing to come out with separates that have all of the new codecs.
I fully expect them to out perform any available AVR.
Check out the forum there if you have a chance.

www.emotiva.com

Thanks for the link..hadn't seen them before.

bootman · 11-16-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

can you tell me more about a time-line for separates? won't the pre/pro section be the same anyway... so I can always just add an outboard amp?

what forum? Thanks!

dave

http://emotivalounge.proboards54.com/index.cgi

DaViD Boulet · 11-16-2007, 03:07 PM

Hey,

Am I missing something? I looked in that forum and didn't see a discussion of forth-coming separates. Is there a thread or model number I should be searching for?

thanks!

Jared · 11-16-2007, 05:02 PM

I was looking for the same thing as you, and ended up getting the new Integra receiver. I bought a new Marantz and loved how it sounded, but it didn't seem to handle HDMI the way I liked. I only wanted to run a single HDMI cable to the projector and nothing else, and I just couldn't get the menu's to work over HDMI. It could have been me, but I just got the feeling that Marantz was a much better 2-channel company and lacked the 7.1 settings and configuration ease. So anyway, took the receiver back and picked up the Integra DTR 7.8.

I really like how it sounds, and it is comparable to the Marantz. I don't have any fancy analysis equipment so I can't give you frequency response's, but to my personal taste it sounds great all around. I had it and the Marantz in the room at the same time and couldn't hear a noticeable difference.

For reference, I have the '07 Paradigm Monitor 11's up front, with the big CC-390 for the center, ADP-390's for the surrounds, and a HSU VTF-3 HO w/ SC for the sub.

richteer · 11-16-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

So, are there any "golden eared" among you who can really tell me how these new receivers sound? I don't mean "man the bass shook my couch!". I mean "wow, the midrange sounded smooth and natural and didn't sound bright and flattened like with typical receivers", if you get my drift.

Well, for the true audiophile experience, a receiver is NOT the way to go. Go for a separate surround sound decoder + amp(s). Probably more expensive, but better audio quality. (Speaking as a two-channel audiophile currently saving up for a decent HT set-up.)

DaViD Boulet · 11-16-2007, 05:17 PM

I'm looking under $2K because it's all I can afford. I'd be going for the KRELL AV system if I could swing $30K no problem...

p.s. as long as the preamp/decoder section of the Marantz is top-drawer, I can always add outboard amplification later.

Jared,

thanks for the input. When you say you had trouble with menus, you mean the OSD menu from the unit? Someone just got a 7002 and says they can see the menus over HDMI.

Spankey · 11-16-2007, 05:20 PM

I auditioned a Krell system last year. The MacIntosh blew it away. The Krell was very brittle, but audio is something that is highly subjective.

DaViD Boulet · 11-16-2007, 05:51 PM

thank-you for saying that.

I mentioned "Krell" more as a knod towards high-end gear name recognition. But when I worked at Soundex in Willowgrove PA (before they went out of business), I always thought that the Krell was the brightest sound of the high-end gear... almost flat. I much preferred Audio Research and Musical Fidelity and Mark Levinson.

Nice to know about the Mac gear. Do they have an audio processor with HDMI 1.3 blah blah blah?

dave

Donnie Eldridge · 11-16-2007, 05:58 PM

David,

B&K is supposed to release their new line of processors(Ref. 70) first quarter of 08. You might want to hold out.

richteer · 11-16-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

thank-you for saying that.

I mentioned "Krell" more as a knod towards high-end gear name recognition. But when I worked at Soundex in Willowgrove PA (before they went out of business), I always thought that the Krell was the brightest sound of the high-end gear... almost flat. I much preferred Audio Research and Musical Fidelity and Mark Levinson.

Nice to know about the Mac gear. Do they have an audio processor with HDMI 1.3 blah blah blah?

dave

Audio Research makes some nice stuff. I'm very happy with my SP9 Mk2. :-)

I'll upgrade it eventually to the Ref 3 (or whatever is current when I can afford it!), but I need to get a PH7 first.

11-15-2007, 08:12 PM	#1
DaViD Boulet Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray reviews: 1	Audiophile (ie, good) sounding receiver with HDMI 1.3, TrueHD, and DTS MA? Just realized that the Pioneer 91 (about $1200) and 92 (about $1500) are not only HDMI 1.3, but have both TrueHD and DTS-HD Master decoding and pass full 1080p video so you can put the device in the path of the projector. Same with the new Sony ES gear. Wow. I have a B&K processor right now and it sounds great... much better than the Denon and Onkyo receivers that I had compared it against back when I bought it around 2002. So, are there any "golden eared" among you who can really tell me how these new receivers sound? I don't mean "man the bass shook my couch!". I mean "wow, the midrange sounded smooth and natural and didn't sound bright and flattened like with typical receivers", if you get my drift. I want to upgrade to advanced audio decoding and HDMI 1.3 but I don't want to take a step backwards in overall sound quality from my B&K. I do have an outboard amp for 2-channel stereo music listening and just use the B&K as a pre-amp in that mode, so as long as the receiver sounds good as a stereo pre-amp I'll be happy with music listening. Is there a forum where audiophile talk about this stuff? thanks! dave

11-15-2007, 08:40 PM	#2
werewuf Expert Member Member since:Jun 2007 Blu-ray collection:95 Blu-ray reviews:2	Audiophile (ie, good) sounding receiver with HDMI 1.3, TrueHD, and The Pioneer VSX-92 list is $1300, the VSX-91 list is $1000. I have the VSX-94-TXH ($1600) and the dynamic range when listening to True HD and DTS HDMA is vastly different than the older DD and DTS soundtracks found on regular DVD's. Little details pop out and the range from lows to highs opens up in a way that is quite stunning. Speaker quality does extend the audio payback from these receivers, so it's best to have ones that handle around 100 watts each. I have compared older dvd's to blu ray and it is very surprising how much detail becomes available all around the room (ambient conversations in the surround sound speakers suddenly becomes understandable for example) The sound becomes more fun and relaxing to listen to, with less ear fatique from the older harsher sounding soundtracks.

11-16-2007, 02:43 AM	#10
supersix4 Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Mar 2007 Blu-ray collection:572 Blu-ray reviews: 53 Trading Score:3	McIntosh always the right choice Last edited by supersix4; 11-16-2007 at 02:49 AM.

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11-15-2007, 09:43 PM	#3
Clark Kent Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Metropolis Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:184	That's going to be a very tall order to match the B&K processor's sound in a 1.3 receiver right now. The audiophile companies always move very slowly incorporating new technology and always seem a half year behind the lower end mass market companies in features like hdmi. I can't comment on the sound quality of the Pioneers you mention because I've never heard them. But I understand what you're going through. I have an older pre/pro that doesn't decode the new formats either and I have been itching to upgrade.

11-15-2007, 10:29 PM	#4
DaViD Boulet Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray reviews: 1	Just discovered that Marantz has 2 new HDMI 1.3 recievers that do full advanced audio decoding (trueHD and DTS MA). The RS7002 is about $1200-1300 and the SR8002 is about $2000 (the main difference being slightly more power in the 8002 along with digital radio). I've heard Marantz in the past and it's generally surpassed the sound qualtiy of Pioneer and the like. I'll be auditioning a unit next week and I'll report back on its "audiophile" performance... dave

11-15-2007, 10:36 PM	#5
ottscay Active Member Member since:Apr 2007	I think the Marantz is likely to be your best bet for the next 6 months or so.

11-15-2007, 11:14 PM	#6
bootman Special Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:The Burghs	Yes, the Marantz units will be your best bet for this year. If you can hold off a little longer this company is planing to come out with separates that have all of the new codecs. I fully expect them to out perform any available AVR. Check out the forum there if you have a chance. www.emotiva.com

11-15-2007, 11:17 PM	#7
DaViD Boulet Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray reviews: 1	can you tell me more about a time-line for separates? won't the pre/pro section be the same anyway... so I can always just add an outboard amp? what forum? Thanks! dave

11-16-2007, 02:41 AM	#9
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	Pioneer Elite VSX92TXH ($800)

11-16-2007, 03:07 PM	#13
DaViD Boulet Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray reviews: 1	Hey, Am I missing something? I looked in that forum and didn't see a discussion of forth-coming separates. Is there a thread or model number I should be searching for? thanks!

11-16-2007, 05:02 PM	#14
Jared Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Fort Collins, Co	I was looking for the same thing as you, and ended up getting the new Integra receiver. I bought a new Marantz and loved how it sounded, but it didn't seem to handle HDMI the way I liked. I only wanted to run a single HDMI cable to the projector and nothing else, and I just couldn't get the menu's to work over HDMI. It could have been me, but I just got the feeling that Marantz was a much better 2-channel company and lacked the 7.1 settings and configuration ease. So anyway, took the receiver back and picked up the Integra DTR 7.8. I really like how it sounds, and it is comparable to the Marantz. I don't have any fancy analysis equipment so I can't give you frequency response's, but to my personal taste it sounds great all around. I had it and the Marantz in the room at the same time and couldn't hear a noticeable difference. For reference, I have the '07 Paradigm Monitor 11's up front, with the big CC-390 for the center, ADP-390's for the surrounds, and a HSU VTF-3 HO w/ SC for the sub.

11-16-2007, 05:17 PM	#16
DaViD Boulet Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray reviews: 1	I'm looking under $2K because it's all I can afford. I'd be going for the KRELL AV system if I could swing $30K no problem... p.s. as long as the preamp/decoder section of the Marantz is top-drawer, I can always add outboard amplification later. Jared, thanks for the input. When you say you had trouble with menus, you mean the OSD menu from the unit? Someone just got a 7002 and says they can see the menus over HDMI.

11-16-2007, 05:20 PM	#17
Spankey Power Member Member since:Oct 2006	I auditioned a Krell system last year. The MacIntosh blew it away. The Krell was very brittle, but audio is something that is highly subjective.

11-16-2007, 05:51 PM	#18
DaViD Boulet Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Washington, DC Blu-ray reviews: 1	thank-you for saying that. I mentioned "Krell" more as a knod towards high-end gear name recognition. But when I worked at Soundex in Willowgrove PA (before they went out of business), I always thought that the Krell was the brightest sound of the high-end gear... almost flat. I much preferred Audio Research and Musical Fidelity and Mark Levinson. Nice to know about the Mac gear. Do they have an audio processor with HDMI 1.3 blah blah blah? dave

11-16-2007, 05:58 PM	#19
Donnie Eldridge Member Member since:Mar 2007	David, B&K is supposed to release their new line of processors(Ref. 70) first quarter of 08. You might want to hold out.

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