The Vista Death Watch (PC Magazine) - Blu-ray Forum

Jeff® · 11-17-2007, 01:27 AM

The Vista Death Watch
10.31.07

by John C. Dvorak
Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has simply not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves if we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers around the number of Macs in use.

How did this happen? And what’s going to happen next? Does Microsoft

have a Plan B? A number of possibilities come to mind, and these things must be considered by the company itself.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209840,00.asp

jcdDigix · 11-17-2007, 01:51 AM

Already prepared to embrace MAC first thing next year!

The Guardian · 11-17-2007, 01:57 AM

Ditto. Although my school is forcing me to also buy a Toshiba laptop next year

dakota81 · 11-17-2007, 02:01 AM

There is a reason Microsoft sold two versions of Windows in the past, the 9x versions and the NT versions, for many years before ditching the 9x versions. Big mistake to dump everything at once and switch to a whole new OS. I can't tell you how many times I've upgraded computers from Vista to XP for businesses because their new laptop does not have drivers available for the office printers, or cannot run the office billing / accounting software. *That* was the problem. Backwards compatibility is damn important, and Vista threw all that out the window.

Heck, for one business I know with a custom billing / accounting software with a web interface, they're stuck with IE6 because it supports some key css tags that Microsoft dropped in IE7. It will be a very long time before they bring in any Vista machine.

But it's just an overall decline in the need for new computers. Most businesses are completely okay with the speed of P!!! based computers, haven't even moved up to Pentium 4 systems unless a computer broke down.

SingingTheBlues · 11-17-2007, 02:36 AM

Great article.

Vista sucks. It's very overpriced.

I help people purchase new computers, and tell them to avoid buying one from a vendor who only sells it with Vista Home, and no cheap Ultimate choice. Usually, we go with a non-vendor machine and load an OEM version of XP. It's just cheaper that way, and a whole lot cleaner (no bloatware).

I can personally say that Dell has lost 4 computer sales because of this very issue.

dadkins · 11-17-2007, 02:42 AM

XP gets Mainstream support until 2009 and Extended support until 2014... why switch?
Vista offers *ME* nothing except a lighter wallet.

One of the main reasons for me getting this laptop on Jan 1st is that it was an XP machine AND has a Blu-ray burner.

I tried Vista on my other machine... wasn't impressed. Imaged it back to XP after 2 months and MANY driver issues.

Nick Graham · 11-17-2007, 03:09 AM

I've still got XP on all of our home machines, and it isn't going anywhere. The two PCs I have used that have Vista on them (my sister's laptop and my co-worker's desktop) had me knowing I was wise not to jump on the upgrade bandwagon after about five minutes of use.

The Guardian · 11-17-2007, 03:43 AM

Price isn't an issue for me because I can get a student discount. What bugs me is the built in DRM stuff, not to mention WGA.

Spankey · 11-17-2007, 03:50 AM

Vista pushed me into a Mac. Couldn't be happier. Apple! What took so long?!

WickyWoo · 11-17-2007, 05:11 AM

Please limit copy and pastes to a few paragraphs and a link for copyright reasons

Thanks!

PeterTHX · 11-17-2007, 05:25 AM

Dvorak is stuck in the early 1990's.

I believe he is also predicted HD DVD the winner. Then stalemate:
I've flip-flopped on which format will win the war. But with combo players, the question is now which format will live longer. And Blu-ray and HD DVD may just continue to coexist until something new comes along to replace both.

I've used Vista with few issues, and usually those are software/driver, not the OSD itself. Those of you saying XP is better forget the very same issues cropped up in late 2001 when XP was released. Unlike XP, Vista isn't a point release (XP is NT 5.1, Win2000 being NT 5.0). It's a pretty radical change from things past and all I hear is the same whining and moaning that folks did when XP came out "bloated, buggy, I'm going back to 98SE!". Those of you with newer hardware shouldn't fret so much.

Storm501 · 11-17-2007, 05:40 AM

Couldn't stand Vista...it was a sorry excuse for a replacement OS to XP so I'm back to using XP and also have a new Mac with OS 10.5.

PeterTHX · 11-17-2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm501

Couldn't stand Vista...it was a sorry excuse for a replacement OS to XP so I'm back to using XP and also have a new Mac with OS 10.5.

OK, what didn't you like about it, specifically.
What about XP is "better"? What hardware do you have. You're saying you paid for a Vista license and threw that money away?

I'd also like to know those who cite "driver issues" to say which drivers for what hardware.

WickyWoo · 11-17-2007, 07:33 AM

A lot of the driver issues have been resolved, but many pieces of legacy hardware are not being supported under Vista. Basically older drivers do not match Vista's security requirements, so it won't allow them to function

XP is more stable, more compatible, and certainly far less of a resource hog and for that reason, you'll drag me away from it kicking and screaming. I'll probably dual-boot anyway, only booting Vista for DX10 games next time I upgrade

Implementations in Enterprise setups have been problematic at best from what I hear

The real problem with Vista is that it simply wasn't necessary. MS wanted to sell a new OS, but very few people actually wanted it. They had an OS that worked, so why change? It's a solution in search of a problem.

Maxell · 11-17-2007, 07:38 AM

I see no reason to upgrade to Vista, especially if it's going to tie up all my resources on my 3 year old laptop.

PeterTHX · 11-17-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

A lot of the driver issues have been resolved, but many pieces of legacy hardware are not being supported under Vista. Basically older drivers do not match Vista's security requirements, so it won't allow them to function

Again, this was a big issue when XP first came out. I had to dual boot 98 until I could replace my external CD writer (an HP). I also scrapped a printer.
The new driver model is a good thing = a more stable experience.

Quote:

XP is more stable, more compatible, and certainly far less of a resource hog and for that reason, you'll drag me away from it kicking and screaming. I'll probably dual-boot anyway, only booting Vista for DX10 games next time I upgrade

XP is "more stable" after two service packs and was considered a huge resource hog for it's time. 512MB (realistic minimum) to 1GB (good performance) was a big deal in 2001, especially when people were used to 64-128MB for Win9x. 2GB is the sweet spot for Vista.

Quote:

Implementations in Enterprise setups have been problematic at best from what I hear

Can't tell you about that. Any OS has growing pains. Besides, have you done a fresh install of XP lately? Even starting with a slipstreamed SP2 it takes about an hour with a broadband connection to install all the subsequent patches & updates (reboot, more patches, reboot, etc).

Quote:

The real problem with Vista is that it simply wasn't necessary. MS wanted to sell a new OS, but very few people actually wanted it. They had an OS that worked, so why change? It's a solution in search of a problem.

Security, better video & driver model, greater flexibility, much better networking, modular OS...most of the changes are under the hood. It's an OS for the next several years. Again, XP came out in late 2001. It's been six years, compare that to when we went from 95 to 98 to 98SE to 2000/ME to XP all in the previous six year period.

3 years from now people will wonder what this fuss was about. It happened with XP, it's happening again with Vista. I've been there.

Quote:

I see no reason to upgrade to Vista, especially if it's going to tie up all my resources on my 3 year old laptop.

Well, it really isn't made for your 3 year old laptop. It's made for a new laptop, or the laptop you buy 3 years from now.

Maxell · 11-17-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, it really isn't made for your 3 year old laptop. It's made for a new laptop, or the laptop you buy 3 years from now.

Which is why it isn't doing too well. Many people have "older than a year" pc's that still work great with XP. I've installed XP and some really old computers and ran almost flawlessly.

Or maybe the general public do not know the Vista difference. I for one don't see much of a difference other than see-thru windows. In contrast at least there is a big difference in look and sound between blu-ray and dvd.

WickyWoo · 11-17-2007, 01:58 PM

Peter all valid points. The point is that XP works now, and has not been outmoded by advances in technology, nor do many people think the advantages you cite, while good ones, are worth the performance hit

To J6P. XP is here, now. XP works now, and they don't see a big reason to change that

calcajun · 11-17-2007, 02:17 PM

I stuck with XP and couldn't be happier.

MasterXeus · 11-17-2007, 02:37 PM

When I bought my computer is had Vista in it. (my old one crashed on me)

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Vista, it just took a little bit to learn where everything is. Backwards compatibility is the only problem I see with it, this may change with time.

11-17-2007, 01:27 AM	#1
Jeff® Active Member Member since:Sep 2006	The Vista Death Watch (PC Magazine) The Vista Death Watch 10.31.07 by John C. Dvorak Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has simply not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves if we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers around the number of Macs in use. How did this happen? And what’s going to happen next? Does Microsoft have a Plan B? A number of possibilities come to mind, and these things must be considered by the company itself. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209840,00.asp Last edited by WickyWoo; 11-17-2007 at 05:11 AM.

11-17-2007, 02:01 AM	#4
dakota81 Expert Member Member since:Apr 2007	There is a reason Microsoft sold two versions of Windows in the past, the 9x versions and the NT versions, for many years before ditching the 9x versions. Big mistake to dump everything at once and switch to a whole new OS. I can't tell you how many times I've upgraded computers from Vista to XP for businesses because their new laptop does not have drivers available for the office printers, or cannot run the office billing / accounting software. That was the problem. Backwards compatibility is damn important, and Vista threw all that out the window. Heck, for one business I know with a custom billing / accounting software with a web interface, they're stuck with IE6 because it supports some key css tags that Microsoft dropped in IE7. It will be a very long time before they bring in any Vista machine. But it's just an overall decline in the need for new computers. Most businesses are completely okay with the speed of P!!! based computers, haven't even moved up to Pentium 4 systems unless a computer broke down. Last edited by dakota81; 11-17-2007 at 02:04 AM.

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11-17-2007, 01:51 AM	#2
jcdDigix Senior Member Member since:May 2007 Location:FL 4K collection:202 Blu-ray collection:1075 DVD collection:1341 Digital collection:3 iTunes collection:134 Blu-ray reviews:7	Already prepared to embrace MAC first thing next year!

11-17-2007, 01:57 AM	#3
The Guardian Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Kitchener, ON Blu-ray collection:9 Trading Score:1	Ditto. Although my school is forcing me to also buy a Toshiba laptop next year

11-17-2007, 02:36 AM	#5
SingingTheBlues Banned Member since:Nov 2007	Great article. Vista sucks. It's very overpriced. I help people purchase new computers, and tell them to avoid buying one from a vendor who only sells it with Vista Home, and no cheap Ultimate choice. Usually, we go with a non-vendor machine and load an OEM version of XP. It's just cheaper that way, and a whole lot cleaner (no bloatware). I can personally say that Dell has lost 4 computer sales because of this very issue.

11-17-2007, 02:42 AM	#6
dadkins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Hercules, CA Blu-ray collection:35 Blu-ray reviews:2	XP gets Mainstream support until 2009 and Extended support until 2014... why switch? Vista offers ME nothing except a lighter wallet. One of the main reasons for me getting this laptop on Jan 1st is that it was an XP machine AND has a Blu-ray burner. I tried Vista on my other machine... wasn't impressed. Imaged it back to XP after 2 months and MANY driver issues.

11-17-2007, 03:09 AM	#7
Nick Graham Senior Member Member since:May 2007 Home Theater Gallery:5 Blu-ray collection:345 Blu-ray reviews: 1 Trading Score:1	I've still got XP on all of our home machines, and it isn't going anywhere. The two PCs I have used that have Vista on them (my sister's laptop and my co-worker's desktop) had me knowing I was wise not to jump on the upgrade bandwagon after about five minutes of use.

11-17-2007, 03:43 AM	#8
The Guardian Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Kitchener, ON Blu-ray collection:9 Trading Score:1	Price isn't an issue for me because I can get a student discount. What bugs me is the built in DRM stuff, not to mention WGA.

11-17-2007, 03:50 AM	#9
Spankey Power Member Member since:Oct 2006	Vista pushed me into a Mac. Couldn't be happier. Apple! What took so long?!

11-17-2007, 05:11 AM	#10
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Please limit copy and pastes to a few paragraphs and a link for copyright reasons Thanks!

11-17-2007, 05:25 AM	#11
PeterTHX Banned Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Blu-ray collection:563 Trading Score:14	Dvorak is stuck in the early 1990's. I believe he is also predicted HD DVD the winner. Then stalemate: I've flip-flopped on which format will win the war. But with combo players, the question is now which format will live longer. And Blu-ray and HD DVD may just continue to coexist until something new comes along to replace both. I've used Vista with few issues, and usually those are software/driver, not the OSD itself. Those of you saying XP is better forget the very same issues cropped up in late 2001 when XP was released. Unlike XP, Vista isn't a point release (XP is NT 5.1, Win2000 being NT 5.0). It's a pretty radical change from things past and all I hear is the same whining and moaning that folks did when XP came out "bloated, buggy, I'm going back to 98SE!". Those of you with newer hardware shouldn't fret so much.

11-17-2007, 05:40 AM	#12
Storm501 Member Member since:Oct 2007	Couldn't stand Vista...it was a sorry excuse for a replacement OS to XP so I'm back to using XP and also have a new Mac with OS 10.5.

11-17-2007, 07:33 AM	#14
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	A lot of the driver issues have been resolved, but many pieces of legacy hardware are not being supported under Vista. Basically older drivers do not match Vista's security requirements, so it won't allow them to function XP is more stable, more compatible, and certainly far less of a resource hog and for that reason, you'll drag me away from it kicking and screaming. I'll probably dual-boot anyway, only booting Vista for DX10 games next time I upgrade Implementations in Enterprise setups have been problematic at best from what I hear The real problem with Vista is that it simply wasn't necessary. MS wanted to sell a new OS, but very few people actually wanted it. They had an OS that worked, so why change? It's a solution in search of a problem.

11-17-2007, 07:38 AM	#15
Maxell Expert Member Member since:Aug 2007	I see no reason to upgrade to Vista, especially if it's going to tie up all my resources on my 3 year old laptop.

11-17-2007, 01:58 PM	#18
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Peter all valid points. The point is that XP works now, and has not been outmoded by advances in technology, nor do many people think the advantages you cite, while good ones, are worth the performance hit To J6P. XP is here, now. XP works now, and they don't see a big reason to change that

11-17-2007, 02:17 PM	#19
calcajun Active Member Member since:Feb 2007	I stuck with XP and couldn't be happier.

11-17-2007, 02:37 PM	#20
MasterXeus Power Member Member since:Mar 2007	When I bought my computer is had Vista in it. (my old one crashed on me) Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Vista, it just took a little bit to learn where everything is. Backwards compatibility is the only problem I see with it, this may change with time.

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