new development on the evolution of Blu-Ray

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by joeorc

Tuesday, November 06, 2007
Sony Reports Progress in Holographic Storage

Sony managed to read and write on seven layers on holographic medium using the Micro-reflector method, further improving the company's previous achievements that stored data in 4 layers of a volumetric optical disc.

First this is not the next generation Blu-ray disk no matter how anyone tries to spin this. This is a completely different technology requiring the convergence of two different beams. It is no more the next generation Blu-ray disk than saying that DVD was the next generation VHS.

Also Sony is *way* behind InPhase and others. For example: InPhase is already shipping 300GB drives and disks -- admittedly in very, very small quantities, but they are shipping. Sony won't be shipping anything equivalent until 2009 at the earliest and probably not until 2010. By 2009 InPhase should be shipping their 800 GB disks and drives. They'd like people to believe they will be sampling these disks and drives by the end of calendar year 2008, but if they are actually sampling by mid 2009 and in true shipments by end of calendar year 2009 their customer base won't be too disappointed.

Sony is making great strides in catching up, but I don't expect them to catch up to the other holographic players before 2011 or 2012 at the earliest.

Originally Posted by joeorc

Sony said that it calculated the error rates of reproduced signals on a 7-layer medium, with the maximum reported error rate to be 4.1 ? 10-4.

This is a horrible bit error rate.
Other holographic players are claiming 10^-11 or higher which is what is really needed. If this report's number for the BER of Sony's system is accurate Sony is more than seven orders of magnitude short of what is needed to be accepted in the industry. (InPhase claims 10^-18, but no one really believes them as there is no way to truly verify such an extremely low bit error rate. To verify such a low error rate, you'd have to record a minimum of 5x10^17 bits with without a single error -- over 2 million of InPhase's 300 GB disks. Clearly no one has done this yet.)

Of course "pretty pictures to eye balls" -- as some of us in the extreme fidelity world call such imagery as typical films showing at HDTV kink of resolutions -- can stand worse BERs than data or critical imagery systems but anything less than 10^-6 is generally considered unacceptable even for this use. The information I had been given on Sony's system was almost to that level, but if it is really 4.1x10-4 then they have a long, long way to improve (a factor of 410 better as a minimum).

In general...

Will holographic media replace Blu-ray disks? Yes.

Will it happen in the next 5 years? No.

We'll see 100 GB Blu-ray disks for the CE market long before we see holographic media. We may even see 200 GB Blu-ray disks before that change happens.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

First this is not the next generation Blu-ray disk no matter how anyone tries to spin this.

Originally Posted by Shadowself

This is a completely different technology requiring the convergence of two different beams. It is no more the next generation Blu-ray disk than saying that DVD was the next generation VHS.

Also Sony is *way* behind InPhase and others. For example: InPhase is already shipping 300GB drives and disks -- admittedly in very, very small quantities, but they are shipping. Sony won't be shipping anything equivalent until 2009 at the earliest and probably not until 2010. By 2009 InPhase should be shipping their 800 GB disks and drives. They'd like people to believe they will be sampling these disks and drives by the end of calendar year 2008, but if they are actually sampling by mid 2009 and in true shipments by end of calendar year 2009 their customer base won't be too disappointed.

Sony is making great strides in catching up, but I don't expect them to catch up to the other holographic players before 2011 or 2012 at the earliest.






This is a horrible bit error rate.
Other holographic players are claiming 10^-11 or higher which is what is really needed. If this report's number for the BER of Sony's system is accurate Sony is more than seven orders of magnitude short of what is needed to be accepted in the industry. (InPhase claims 10^-18, but no one really believes them as there is no way to truly verify such an extremely low bit error rate. To verify such a low error rate, you'd have to record a minimum of 5x10^17 bits with without a single error -- over 2 million of InPhase's 300 GB disks. Clearly no one has done this yet.)

Of course "pretty pictures to eye balls" -- as some of us in the extreme fidelity world call such imagery as typical films showing at HDTV kink of resolutions -- can stand worse BERs than data or critical imagery systems but anything less than 10^-6 is generally considered unacceptable even for this use. The information I had been given on Sony's system was almost to that level, but if it is really 4.1x10-4 then they have a long, long way to improve (a factor of 410 better as a minimum).

In general...

Will holographic media replace Blu-ray disks? Yes.

Will it happen in the next 5 years? No.

We'll see 100 GB Blu-ray disks for the CE market long before we see holographic media. We may even see 200 GB Blu-ray disks before that change happens.

first of all its not spin the fact that Sony is useing BluE LASER DIODES is no qwinky dink... ..because Sony is # 1 Blue laser diode producer in the world so it stand's to reason why they are useing Blue laser diodes. and the same principle of DVD optics still apply the physical drive design is not the same as current players but could read back compatable DVD on up at least in their testing ..and second it is going to take quite some time for them to catch up..such as you said that is no DOUBT about that but make no mistake about this This Sony is starting to develop the Blu-Ray Holographic format.

this is not spin its just BRANCHING THE Blu-Ray format in a new development in OPTICS that is currently in its infancy. HDV is still in a stage of very good technology but expensive and still in multiple stages of advancement in HVD optics

[joeorc]

example:
Sony tests seven-layer holographic disc

Boffins aim for 100x DVD capacity by 2010
Simon Burns in Taipei, vnunet.com 07 Nov 2007
ADVERTISEMENT

Sony has successfully recorded data on a seven-layer holographic disc, researchers announced at a technology conference in Singapore.

The company is planning to develop a 20-layer 500GB recordable holographic disc, more than 100 times the capacity of a standard DVD, by 2010, according to Japan's Nikkei Business Publications.

Sony's researchers had previously achieved successful recording only with four-layer and five-layer discs.

Increasing the storage capacity became increasingly difficult because the recording laser could not penetrate the upper layers of data with sufficient power to change the state of lower layers. The layers are approximately 200 micrometres thick.

Sony scientists said at the International Symposium on Optical Memory in Singapore that they have overcome this problem by further development of a system with two read heads, one on each side of the disc.

Instead of directly altering the recording layers, the twin layers generate interference patterns which are used to write the data.

Sony researchers believe that refinements to this technique will enable them to move beyond seven-layer discs to densities of up to 20 layers.

The prototype discs use standard blue-violet lasers which are focused at different depths by lenses. The system uses a separate red laser to track the recording and reading position.

The tests used an 8cm disc rotating at 1,050rpm, but Sony believes that the technology can be scaled up to work with standard 12cm discs and faster rotational speeds.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22...ts-seven-layer

Blu-Ray extended format advancement

http://www.sresearch.com/articles/SR...D_20070911.pdf

[Disco_And]

WOW! That means all 3 Lord of the rings Special Extended Editions in 7.1 PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HDMA and all the extras in 1080p on one disc

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Disco_And

WOW! That means all 3 Lord of the rings Special Extended Editions in 7.1 PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HDMA and all the extras in 1080p on one disc

...

the guide lines for development just like anything is Time for the format to mature before they bring out another one to the consumer before both DVD and Blu-Ray were released onto the markets it was 3 years on the market outside of the mainstream MOVIE distribution so the format can mature..but this time these format hold Quite a bit of DATA that in today's standards it is enough to extend ITS time on the market until a replacement is needed..but like me and other's are looking at it will take some time before these even get remotely

active as a viable replacement. in that time both HVD and Blu-Ray will get better results with the technology as more time passes for the format to mature..at this time its not a rush to bring it to the MARKET fast but to make the format better when you do...its the same idea with whats going on right now..

HD DVD format is "good enough"
while
Blu-Ray format is "made for long stride... the long haul"