This is exactly why I did not buy the IPHONE

[joeorc]

for me the memory card expansion makes it easy to get application's on devices and it also makes it easy to upgrade the external storage.
With this news I am kind of let down that Microsoft is going to take this stance!
with the launch of windows Mobile 7 smartphones. I have been a long time user of pocket PC's and windows Mobile devices, even right now i use a HTC 8525 and i love that the Phone does what i need it to do.

Though it's now getting long in the tooth and i was looking to upgrade my smartphone, I was going to continue to go with Windows based, Even though Windows Phone 7 is not the same as WM5 OR 6. but i have really like the past offerings of Microsoft software on Winmo devices but after this.

I may go with Android, i already have a Android Tablet and it works great. I think that i may go the phone rout also because of this very reason.

read on:

MIX10: No User-Replaceable Memory on Windows Phone 7
File under: News
By: Chuong Nguyen | 2:03 AM 17-Mar-10



We found out from Todd Brix of Microsoft that Windows Phone 7 Series will eschew user-replaceable memory. Memory cards may still be used by manufacturers and OEMs, but those won't be easily or readily accessible to the end-user. This will allow, as Microsoft puts it, for a better user experience on the device, and we're not sure that the primary motive for locking down storage memory is for a better experience--we're guessing it has to do with DRM though the strategy would go well with Microsoft's move to remove a file management system.

Company reps say that storage cards can still be implemented by OEMs and manufacturers though the cards won't be accessible to the end user. One scenario of this would be manufacturers using a memory card to augment storage in the device rather than using a dedicated memory chip--we've seen this strategy implemented on the Android-based Barnes & Noble nook electronic books reader.

Though we understand the vision and strategy of removing removable memory cards to the end user in simplifying the user experience, especially with Dorado synchronization and the lack of a file manager making the need for files and drag and drop management to memory not relevant to the Windows Phone 7 arena, we're second-guessing the company's decision. Close competitor Apple and Palm have both eschewed removable storage for built-in storage of varying capacities between 8 GB to 32 GB on current generation phone models, but that decision was met with upset users who may want to augment the storage capacity on their devices or swap memory cards. With the case of Apple, the iPhone's lack of removable memory is probably due to the fact that the company doesn't want users to access the file structure; rather files are handled through synchronization and we're seeing a similar strategy with the removal of a file manager and implementation of synchronization via the Dorado engine.

Eliminating user-replaceable storage cards would also mean that some of the confusion--for the average consumer--would be gone. With Windows Mobile, when a user tried to install a CAB file on the device, the user would be presented with two options--to install to device or to storage memory. Also, with a few apps not being able to function when installed to storage memory, that headache would be gone for the casual smartphone users.

Additionally, the move to remove removable memory capabilities on Windows Phone 7 Series may stem from the need for a closed ecosystem to combat app and music piracy, despite a new DRM technology being used.

http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix10...indows-phone-7

this may be the first time i buy a non Windows based Smartphone

[master_8ball]

Wow look at all that spin. Love how they try and make it seem like it will make things easier for people, who has trouble working with a cell phone with expandable memory? If anything itunes and other file management systems are more complicated to use than the simple drag and drop. They should just say it as it is, we can now charge excessive amounts for internal memory just like Apple.

[joeorc]

i was very sad to see Microsoft take that stance, like i stated before i have alway's been a strong supporter of the Windows Mobile offering's, An i also have used PalmOS devices i still have my Palm T/X i use it mainly to stream music..and as a great MP3 player..lol at my desk hooked up to external speaker's
pocket tunes is awsome..lol.

anyway I was very puzzled why Microsoft would go his rout since flash storage has an /write limit to how many times you can write to the card.yes it's quite a bit but still trying to target it more as a non removable flash card is i think a very large and troubling Mistake.

previous Windows Mobile 5/6 user's like my self may not like that @ all..
which is my stance on this, it's also the reason why i did not buy an Iphone. and which is why the Android Phones are looking more an more like my new upgraded phone.

I already have an Android Tablet and it has a MiniSD card which i can load and run APK's from. if i need to get a new Flash card nothing is stopping me from backing up my current flash card on my PC and get a new one..yes you could back it up by cloud services, and nothing really wrong with that, but i like having the ability to upgrade my storage.

for me it's a main function that i want in my Smartphone.

[MaCruz]

[Show spoiler]Waiting for DonRSD to post his 2 cents regarding the iPhone

[bhampton]

That first post was poorly writen to the point of being about un-readable.

Still... Any excuse to buy something not from Microsoft is good enough for me.

-Brian

[joeorc]

Good news bad news: How Windows Phone 7 will use SD cards for storage

First the good news: Unlike certain smartphone platforms on the market, Windows Phone 7 will allow users to store data on SD cards, not just built-in storage space.

Now the bad news: You won’t easily be able to remove and replace that SD card.

That’s because Microsoft says Windows Phone devices will have special SD cards that offer high performance — and which are recognized by the phone as internal storage. Say your phone comes with 8GB of flash storage and a 8GB SD card. Basically the device will think there’s 16GB of internal storage. If you remove the SD card it might not be readable in other devices — and if you try to insert a new SD card your phone might not recognize it — or work properly, since important files and settings may have already been written to the original SD card.

Not all Windows Phone 7 devices will have SD cards, but if yours does have one it will likely be accessible in a slot beneath your battery. Microsoft just suggests you never actually pop out that card.

http://mobiputing.com/2010/10/good-n...s-for-storage/

straight from Microsoft:

SD cards and my phone

Some Windows Phones have a Secure Digital (SD) card that's used to expand the amount of storage space on the phone. If your phone has one, it's in an SD card slot underneath the battery cover on the back of your phone.

Windows Phone uses a special high–performance SD card that works differently than SD cards in other devices. When your phone is built and first set up, its internal storage and SD card are combined and recognized as one storage system.
Warning

You should not remove the SD card in your phone or replace it with a new one because your Windows Phone won't work properly. Existing data on the phone may be lost, and that SD card can't be used in other devices or Windows Phones.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphon...e.aspx?pf=true



that made my choice for me

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by bhampton

That first post was poorly writen to the point of being about un-readable.

Still... Any excuse to buy something not from Microsoft is good enough for me.

-Brian

English lit. was not my major ..lol

and I think people understood where i was coming from.

This is not just any excuse not to support Microsoft.

This is from a long Time supporter of the Windows CE OS based devices, which i happen to really Like .

To me this is not what I wanted in a Windows Smart Phone. that is one of the reason's i did not buy the Iphone and it's now a reason Why i will not be buying a Windows 7 SmartPhone.

[Navster]

Originally Posted by MaCruz

[Show spoiler]Waiting for DonRSD to post his 2 cents regarding the iPhone

[brettallica]

I can understand why companies would move away from removable storage for smartphones. It makes sense on a number of levels. For tech geeks like me, I like the flexibility and "control" that having a removable card gives me, but like so many others, it will not deter me or necessarily be the end-all when I make my smartphone decision. To me, and especially at this point in technology, it has become more of a feature than anything else — and one whose usefulness and convenience can be debated quite easily — especially with how much storage comes with phones nowadays. My phone comes with 32GB of internal storage, and I don't need more than that; if I do, I pull up my computer. Having that much storage space completely filled with data on a handheld/über-mobile device is just asking for trouble anyway, especially if it's important data that isn't stored anywhere else.

[bhampton]

Quote "This is not just any excuse not to support Microsoft."

Fair enough but any excuse not to support Microsoft is fine by me.

[Septimus Prime]

I can understand going the Apple route and just not letting the user change storage cards, but proprietary SD cards? There is no reason for doing this other than greed.

It almost feels like MS is trying to push people toward Android with each new announcement.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Septimus Prime

I can understand going the Apple route and just not letting the user change storage cards, but proprietary SD cards? There is no reason for doing this other than greed.

It almost feels like MS is trying to push people toward Android with each new announcement.

I do not even care about that the cards are proprietary what i care about , is that those very same card's cannot be read by industry standard card reader's.
well at least that's what i am gathering right now after the info that Microsoft just gave, if true which seem's more and more likely that same card cannot be used in other windows phone 7 devices so its tied to the phone it came with. that's what i have a problem with...not even in other Windows 7 phones , so when you upgrade that card can not be used in another phone..that to me is more of a slight than anything.

as for them moving away, from that type of flash media for the better good is 100% poppycock in my opinion because Android devices use these flash card's that i might add that windows mobile 5/6 used and it was not so far any problems for people to use them nor as far as i can tell no real problem's using them at all and this also happened recently with the KIN:

Hey SanDisk, where is the microSD card slot on the KIN devices?
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phone...n-devices/3525

[DonRSD]

best thing ive ever done is leave my tmobile iphone to get a sprint evo

customization > being locked into what THEY allow you to do

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

best thing ive ever done is leave my tmobile iphone to get a sprint evo

customization > being locked into what THEY allow you to do

Me also, Window Mobile 5 and 6 was pretty good at being very customizable

an In my Opinion Windows phone 7 is starting off to be less as forgiving as Winmo 5 and 6 was for customization.

[Al_The_Strange]

The only thing that bothers me is:

A.) Like master_8ball said, they make the average consumers out to be idiots. There are thousands of portible devices out there with SD card slots in all different shapes and sizes; it's not hard to stick it in and save stuff to it. And they're saying that we're too stupid to figure it out? I think I feel insulted! WTF?!

B.) What's the point of using an SD card as internal memory? Might as well make it a real hard-wired flash drive or HDD drive or something.

Other than that, if I ever have these devices I probably wouldn't mind using them, but I prefer devices with both internal memory and memory card slots for flexibility. Removing the slots would likely make the products a little less appealing if I was shopping for them.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

The only thing that bothers me is:

A.) Like master_8ball said, they make the average consumes out to be idiots. There are thousands of portible devices out there with SD card slots in all different shapes and sizes; it's not hard to stick it in and save stuff to it. And they're saying that we're too stupid to figure it out? I think I feel insulted! WTF?!

B.) What's the point of using an SD card as internal memory? Might as well make it a real hard-wired flash drive or HDD drive or something.

Other than that, if I ever have these devices I probably wouldn't mind using them, but I prefer devices with both internal memory and memory card slots for flexibility. Removing the slots would likely make the products a little less appealing if I was shopping for them.

agree 100% the probem is this is a step backwards i think from their Windows Moble 5/6 due to them creating smartphones without accessible consumer expansion memory slot. the big one is yes you can send pictures and video to the cloud service, but I myself like to keep those on my own, off of cloud services. Unless i do not care about the content at all but i do not need to put family pictures and family get together on the cloud services.

I would rather keep that @ my own storage and i would rather have a flash card that i could take with me and load it into a loved ones own computer. Instead of having to synq it by IR or other mean's..flash card's work..they work very well.

Putting a smartphone without a flashcard port is ok if you like smartphones like that. But hell even Sony's memory stick meet's standard Memory card reader's...

an the thing is

people call the Memory stick Proprietary but hell even that format is readable by standard card reader's.

[DJ Manyak]

there are tons of issues regarding SD memory cards and high capacity readers that people dont wanna deal with so internal memory with no slots is a no brainier for a phone.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by DJ Blend

there are tons of issues regarding SD memory cards and high capacity readers that people dont wanna deal with so internal memory with no slots is a no brainier for a phone.

issue's?

I have not had really any isue at all beside the rare occasion that the card or memory card fail's. other than that they work often and quite well.
Like i said it's a no problem for people that like Smartphones that use no flash card's and majority of everything is cloud based services, which is fine but like I said the card reader's work well an have for year's. Im not knocking the Phone a Smartphone is a great device to suppliment your computing need's for everyday task's like checking email on the go, playing a quick game here an there.

Checking news feed's or twitter if you like that sort of thing..lol, but I for one like my SmartPhone's to offer an external flash card to be able to transfer files to devices i may need to transfer without the need to synq the Smartphone with a required Synq software needing to be on that PC also.

Yes many times you would not need that synq software but i would rathr not need it at all.
flash card already provide that.

[Liselotte]

hehehe i will never buy a Apple product.

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by joeorc

issue's?

I have not had really any isue at all beside the rare occasion that the card or memory card fail's. other than that they work often and quite well.
Like i said it's a no problem for people that like Smartphones that use no flash card's and majority of everything is cloud based services, which is fine but like I said the card reader's work well an have for year's. Im not knocking the Phone a Smartphone is a great device to suppliment your computing need's for everyday task's like checking email on the go, playing a quick game here an there.

Checking news feed's or twitter if you like that sort of thing..lol, but I for one like my SmartPhone's to offer an external flash card to be able to transfer files to devices i may need to transfer without the need to synq the Smartphone with a required Synq software needing to be on that PC also.

Yes many times you would not need that synq software but i would rathr not need it at all.
flash card already provide that.

Just to be totally clear and fair to the iPhone in particular (I can't speak for other smartphones): you can plug in the phone via USB and open up a number of different applications to grab the images off the phone without syncing or having to do any of those things you don't like doing. I do it all the time with my iPhone. I simply plug my phone in and open the program called Image Capture (it's a native application with OS X) and you can see all the images and videos you've taken. From there you can just drag-and-drop to your computer. Super-basic. You can do this on any computer; i.e. the phone doesn't need to be "associated" with a specific computer for it to work. It's about the same as plugging in a memory card; in fact, it's probably a tad faster and more convenient because you don't have to take out a card and put it in a reader; you just plug in the phone via USB cable.