Dissatisfied with Fox's Digibooks lack of spindle

[BillieCassin]

Imagine you are designing a sports car.

You design the most beautiful lines in a vehicle anyone has ever seen, it's sleek and modern yet has a hint of traditionalism to it that really makes it seem "quality".

You spend a great deal of time designing all the parts, making sure every bit of the machinery is perfect. You take some old designs and make them better than new, bringing the product into the 21st Century and ready for a whole new generation to enjoy driving. You even put in state of the art extras like heated seats, the whole nine yards. A modern take on a classic.

You charge extra for this vehicle, as you well should - it's a lot of work to make, the customers who would buy your sports car have a little extra dough to throw in as they are used to it when buying vehicles like this - it's par for the course. They don't mind spending money for quality.

But then, after all this love and attention, you end up putting a moped engine in it.

So you've built this gorgeous, state of the art vehicle - and you forgot what the point of the vehicle was. To move you around in a speedy fashion. You got so caught up in the design of the vehicle, making it appeal to people, making it seem like the best car that's ever been designed - yet by putting a moped engine in it, you've pretty much just ruined the actual function.

Welcome to Fox and their DVD packaging. First Aliens, then Rocky Horror, and now All About Eve, which released today.

I was so happy to get All About Eve - I adore this film, a true classic (the best Bette ever was, in my opinion, after 1938), and not only does it star one of the greatest screen legends it's also a damn fine film. In the middle of a two-day snowstorm, I was so happy to see the UPS guy trek up the driveway with my copies (more on the plural later).

So I rip open the package (which also has Alice in Wonderland, and as usual is one of Disney's perfect releases), and take out the two copies of "Eve". I immediately had a moment of dread..."That case is VERY slim."

Sure enough, we have another gorgeously designed digibook, beautiful pictures (though like most digibooks you can "read" through it in a few minutes and will likely not go back again). Although this one was not so PERFECTLY designed, as I accidentally ordered two copies (at different times) and both of them have the same spine defect - when on the shelf the back picture bleeds just a tiny bit over to the spine, enough that you can notice it. That's a small gripe, though, one that I would put up with if...

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO SLIDE THE DISC AGAINST CARDBOARD because there is no hub inside.

I know, I know - some people don't mind this. I'm honestly happy for you (although I'm sure plenty will reply to this thread making fun of this concern). They will say "Oh BD's don't scratch" (yeah, right), or, "It's shiny cardboard, so it's OK!"

It's not OK to me. Fox has designed this lovely case for this, one of the more important movies of it's time, and every time I want to take it in or out of the case I have to slide it against a piece of cardboard. Flush.

Spindles for disc media were designed the way they were for a reason. Just like hypodermic needles (one of thousands of examples I could use) used to take blood from humans from have changed very little in the 150+ years since they were invented, sometimes something is designed in a certain way because it's what works. You don't see them trying to experiment with triangular needles, and every "experiment" like this with anything but a spindle which raises the disc ever-so-slightly hasn't worked either.

BD's are not scratch-proof, though they certainly are more resistant than DVDs. I take care of my media - and it does drive me nuts when they have any scratches at all (light or not). Yes, that's a personal OCD thing. But when I just spent $22 (which I rarely do for a single Blu) on a disc, paying that "deluxe" price for a film that has been in profit since before my parents were born (and gladly paying it) the least I want is a case that actually protects the disc.

I've had some DVDs for more than a dozen years now. I plan on having these Blu's for at least that long (or I wouldn't be buying them). I don't want to worry every time I open up these sub-standard cases. Just because they are pretty and shiny and glossy doesn't mean a tinker's dang if the actual function of the case - to preserve the disc - is negated.

So I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Because I accidentally ordered two I have to return to Amazon anyway. Now I am returning both.

With Aliens at least I knew far enough ahead of time and was able to order the UK version (which I paid 1/2 the price people were paying for the US version, got the same exact discs in the packaging I prefer, it was win/win for me). With RHPS, I kept it because I do not own an HD copy of it (I didn't even have the DVD) so I "needed" it.

All About Eve, though - I have the film in HD on my DVR and it looks pretty darn good. The Blu looks even better, but I don't care. I've seen this film so many times that I'm going to watch it all the way on Blu, but usually when I put it on it's when I'm doing something around the house like taxes or something, so I won't be caring as much about PQ as I won't be staring at it the whole time. I'm going to watch the film, every second of the extras, and then tomorrow both are going back to Amazon.

Shady? A little. I have an Amazon Visa, Amazon Prime, and I spend $100's a month there, so frankly I don't feel bad about it - and I'm going to be very up front and honest when I return it as to why.

The digibook is a tiny bit slimmer than a standard Blu case, enough smaller than if it had a hub it would have just been the same size as a standard release. I know marketing is concerned about people not wanting so much room taken up on their shelf, but I'd rather it be 10" wide and protect the disc than a hair smaller and make me slap the disc against cardboard.

So, Fox, if you are going to continue to do this - can you please start offering standard editions as well? So I can spend my $22 on a 60 year-old film with confidence?

I'll be watching Star Wars packaging very closely. I've already canceled my pre-order. If you pull this crap with that one, I hope dearly that the UK release is normal like Aliens was - if not, I'll be Netflixing Star Wars, because I simply can't keep paying these premium prices for these titles on release day and getting packaging that just makes me shake my head in disappointment - I couldn't care LESS what it looks like if it doesn't actually protect the discs.

[Beast]

I zoned out halfway through. You don't need to write a thesis to complain about packaging.

I loved the packaging for the Avatar SE and Alien Anthology and Rocky Horror.

I don't need to have all my packages the same shapes and sizes and styles. I like inventive packaging.

[Variable_Star]

I'm with you, BillieCassin, as I've been having the same discussion on the Outlaw Josey Wales thread. I want those who want digibooks to have them, but it's frustrating that there isn't an option to buy the movie in a standard Blu case, made available at the same time. Often they are released, but it's typically a year or more after the digibook release.

Originally Posted by Beast

I zoned out halfway through. You don't need to write a thesis to complain about packaging.

Um, you don't have to read it.

[Cowboy300]

Pics?

[Arkadin]

are you're saying there's no disc spindle for the bd?
it just slides into a sleeve?
if that's the case I have one answer for you--d-skins.
they are plastic circles with a tiny ridge along the edge that you slip onto a cd or dvd for protection.
some people call them "disc condoms".
they snap right onto the disc, with a thin area of plastic that covers the whole disc surface.
they work great for protecting discs that have to slide "naked" into cardboard sleeves.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Variable_Star

Um, you don't have to read it.

If you're posting a complaint, it's a good idea to make your problem clear.

Not bury it in a huge text wall where most people are just going to gloss over it or ignore it.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

you're saying there's no disc spindle for the bd?
it just slides into a sleeve?

Sounds like the packaging for the Avatar SE. Which works just fine. So eh.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Beast

I don't need to have all my packages the same shapes and sizes and styles. I like inventive packaging.

I'm sorry if my post lost you, but if you had finished reading you'd know that it has NOTHING to do with the size/shape (in fact, I specifically said I don't care if it's 10" wide or slim), I just want them to put a hub in there for the disc, instead of designing a shiny pretty package to appeal to the eye and not actually protect the disc. Sliding a premium priced disc against a piece of cardboard (shiny or not) is not good for it's long-term health.

I know I can be a bit verbose, but that's the summary.

[Beta Man]

I didn't realize it was a packaging gripe until after the first 1,000 words...... because the title certainly didn't give any indication about what the thread was for.....

For you OP.... I say "try to be less caring about the packaging etc...... you'll find simply enjoying the films will become just that.... more enjoyable"


EDIT:

Title updated

[nf0603]

I like Warner's Digibooks (I know a lot of people hate them) but the two I have are very classy. I have Matrix and Color Purple and both are very attractive and classy and work with the themes of said movies.

Fox's ones have been horrible (I only own Rocky Horror and Sound Of Music) because of the cardboard hubs. I am glad I went for the UK Alien set. A lot of people don't like digipacks but at least the discs are properly protected. Thanks for the heads up about All About Eve, I do want that one.

Luckily Blu-Ray's are sturdier than DVD's and CD's were when it comes to scratching.

[Space_Butler]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Title updated

Quite appreciated. After a couple paragraphs I wasn't about to keep going, so this helped me understand what he was going to say and move on. I wouldn't have even posted in this thread if not to thank you for the change.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I didn't realize it was a packaging gripe until after the first 1,000 words...... because the title certainly didn't give any indication about what the thread was for.....

You and me both. I understand the cases without hubs can be annoying, but I haven't had any problems with Avatar SE, Alien Anthology, or Rocky Horror. They're all designed perfectly to keep the discs secure. It can take a bit to get used to, but I don't worry about discs getting scratched. That's the perk of Blu-Ray after all. I've certainly seen more annoying packaging (see BTTF), but nothing that has really upset me.

Also, nice thread title update. It at least lets people know the point.

[fdm]

Yeah, that bugs me too. Though not quite so much apparently.

The one that I have issues with is the Target Sound Of Music book, the discs just seem to want to fall out if you look at them funny.

Passing on both All About Eve and An Affair To Remember at least partly because of these hubless books. Cost is another part of it. When they appear in regular cases, maybe. Not a big fan of Eve, it was worth a watch, but no real desire to see it again; still haven't ever seen Affair; have both on dvd.

And will be very selective on future Fox booked titles as well and/or seek other options. Plenty of other stuff that comes out more cheaply, in more practical cases. Still need to get real case(s) for Alien Anthology. (Edit: And I guess for Avatar once I get around to opening that one.)

So put me down as a Fox book hater too. Get some hubs in those babies, then I'll think about getting some more of them.

[42041]

looks like another reason to rent

anyone got a picture of the disc hubs?

[Wings80]

The disc attached in my digibooks the same way they do in a blue-ray plastic case. Pop in / snap out.

[nf0603]

Originally Posted by Wings80

The disc attached in my digibooks the same way they do in a blue-ray plastic case. Pop in / snap out.

dollars to donuts you're talking Warner. Fox's digibooks use cardboard, at least the Sound Of Music, Alien, All About Eve and Rocky Horror ones do

[melbye]

While i would prefer a standard case i didn't have any problems with the Avatar-case, what i didn't like was the Futurama-case which is almost the same as the cases Simpsons DVD's have had since season 11 which will eventually ruin discs.

[Chloenator]

I absolutely hate digibooks with a passion! I go out of my way to avoid them. I won't buy a movie if it's only available as a digibook. I'll wait until a standard version comes out. I did that for Poltergeist, The Shawshank Redemption and Willy Wonka. I'm going to continue doing that. Digibooks = garbage, IMO.

[Wings80]

Originally Posted by nf0603

dollars to donuts you're talking Warner. Fox's digibooks use cardboard, at least the Sound Of Music, Alien, All About Eve and Rocky Horror ones do

Oh I see. Yes all I have is WB and Bridge on the River Kwai. I think anither one that is not WB. Dr. Strangelove I think?

But I will still get All About Eve digibook.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Variable_Star

I'm with you, BillieCassin, as I've been having the same discussion on the Outlaw Josey Wales thread. I want those who want digibooks to have them, but it's frustrating that there isn't an option to buy the movie in a standard Blu case, made available at the same time. Often they are released, but it's typically a year or more after the digibook release.

It's not the digipaks that are the problem, though. There have definitely been digipaks made before that also have spindles. Although I don't own many in general for films (never really cared), I definitely have CD digipaks like that. It can be done without making it exceptionally wide (they make them very slim now, it could easily been put in and been the size of a standard case - it's not that I *care* if it's the same size or not, just that if they excuse is to make it as slim as possible for not putting a hub in).

I'd love Fox's digibooks if it wasn't for this - I think they look snazzy on a shelf, very classy.

Originally Posted by Variable_Star

Um, you don't have to read it.

You learn very quickly that every thread around here must appeal to Beast, and he needs to comment on them all. You also learn that unlike his alter-ego, he doesn't exactly have the same literary fortitude.

Originally Posted by Cowboy300

Pics?

Here ya go:

I forgot to take a pic of the front, but it's a gorgeous little book (you can see it on Amazon, in fact, thanks for asking me for some - I think I'm going to post these under "customer images" on Amazon itself. Here is what the actual "meat" of the packaging is, where the disc actually goes.




Here's what it looks like under there. And you know what - look at what I found under the disc :




There, ladies and gentleman - is the problem. See that white debris under there? That's the same white that you can see the cardboard is cut out of. Like most of these I have opened, there are little tiny bits of debris from where the cardboard was cut. Just for reference, here is RHPS:

Now, on DVD these could be devastating - the AbFab box set (which is the most gorgeous DVD package I ever saw), also by FOX, had the same problem - and half the discs arrived scratched because of it. This one, the Blu thankfully was not permanently scratched out of the box (isn't it kind of crazy to be happy something isn't scratched the first time you open it? We didn't put up with this crap for CD's, I don't know why we do it for films).

This is a good thing, and what people are talking about when they say "scratch resistant". But just because it's scratch resistant is no excuse to crap out on the packaging. There could have been larger debris in there, and not everyone is as educated as I am about the topic - I took that thing out upside down (flip the case over disc facing down) so it gently came off the cardboard before I took it out. As careful as I am, I do have pets - while I'm watching it some stray hair floats in, and it could be scratched very easily.

The problem is mostly that it's 1000% preventable, that's why it bothers me so much.

Originally Posted by Arkadin

you're saying there's no disc spindle for the bd?
it just slides into a sleeve?

Yup, see pics.

Originally Posted by Beast

If you're posting a complaint, it's a good idea to make your problem clear.

Not bury it in a huge text wall where most people are just going to gloss over it or ignore it.

Well, no one else had a hard time understanding.

A wall of text is not using paragraphs, etc. - I didn't do that.

I understand it was simply too long for your tastes - but to be honest, if "most people gloss over or ignore it", the points made therein probably would have gone over their heads anyway.

Let me simple it up:

SPINDLES were invented for a reason, to protect discs.

These fancy new packages, on premium priced discs (that means they "cost a lot") don't use them, which can lead to problems (that means scratched discs).

If that doesn't bother you - no worries. But would it bother you if they just put a slim little spindle in there and the disc was protected? Or are you actively against spindles and think they are a bad thing?