Sony: Raised R&D Costs Related to PS4 Launch

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Probably because they don't have to pay licensing fees and think they can make a better format to stop piracy. Complexity of licensing is a reason Apple cites for not using Blu-ray.

Just because you read it on the Internet, does not mean it's true. Same goes for stuff that a company's PR department comes out with in response to rumors. Apple doesn't want Blu-ray because it will cut into their profits from digital downloads if they help with it's adoption. Sony saying that the "future platform" refers to the NGP (PSVita, or whatever the hell it's called) is just not trying to show their hand just yet.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by binarymelon

Just because you read it on the Internet, does not mean it's true. Same goes for stuff that a company's PR department comes out with in response to rumors. Apple doesn't want Blu-ray because it will cut into their profits from digital downloads if they help with it's adoption. Sony saying that the "future platform" refers to the NGP (PSVita, or whatever the hell it's called) is just not trying to show their hand just yet.

So what you infer from what you read on the internet is true and what I read isn't? Right.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

We are conducting an open call for US based participants* for a public preview to help us prepare for an updated Xbox 360 disc format.

http://majornelson.com/2011/03/29/xb...pdate-preview/

Before this rumor spirals out of hand, I happen to know a couple people who were involved in the private beta for this and they've said that it was just a change in the encryption scheme on the Xbox 360 DVDs. Right now, the encryption on the 360 discs eats up about 2GB of a 9GB dual-layered DVD. The new format cuts that down to something like half as much space, which gives developers a little more breathing room before needing a second disc.

Regarding the topic of MS PR comments about digital downloads:
I still doubt Microsoft would be shortsighted enough to stay with DVD for the next generation, but they're definitely not going to go download-only. They can talk all they like about going completely digital, but there just isn't enough internet connectivity penetration to make that practical yet. Too much of their customer base would be cut off.

A lot of Americans don't connect their consoles to the internet. Even amongst PS3 users, I doubt the figure is higher than 3 out of 4, and Xbox 360 users have somewhat less reason to do so. Even leaving the USA aside, a lot of smaller countries that Microsoft has a presence in would be left completely in the dark due to the lack of available broadband. A lot of countries in Europe have download caps (much like cell phone usage is metered), and I doubt those people will be particularly enthusiastic about having to pay for X number of GB of bandwidth just to purchase more than 1 game a month. Beyond Europe, a lot of developing countries have extremely limited penetration of broadband, and don't look to improve much in the near future.

Also: Remember the huge success of the PSPGo? Yeah, that.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Before this rumor spirals out of hand, I happen to know a couple people who were involved in the private beta for this and they've said that it was just a change in the encryption scheme on the Xbox 360 DVDs. Right now, the encryption on the 360 discs eats up about 2GB of a 9GB dual-layered DVD. The new format cuts that down to something like half as much space, which gives developers a little more breathing room before needing a second disc.

Regarding the topic of MS PR comments about digital downloads:
I still doubt Microsoft would be shortsighted enough to stay with DVD for the next generation, but they're definitely not going to go download-only. They can talk all they like about going completely digital, but there just isn't enough internet connectivity penetration to make that practical yet. Too much of their customer base would be cut off.

A lot of Americans don't connect their consoles to the internet. Even amongst PS3 users, I doubt the figure is higher than 3 out of 4, and Xbox 360 users have somewhat less reason to do so. Even leaving the USA aside, a lot of smaller countries that Microsoft has a presence in would be left completely in the dark due to the lack of available broadband. A lot of countries in Europe have download caps (much like cell phone usage is metered), and I doubt those people will be particularly enthusiastic about having to pay for X number of GB of bandwidth just to purchase more than 1 game a month. Beyond Europe, a lot of developing countries have extremely limited penetration of broadband, and don't look to improve much in the near future.

Also: Remember the huge success of the PSPGo? Yeah, that.

Of course they aren't going 100% DL but I don't think they are going Blue-ray either based on their most recent comments. We'll just have to wait and see.

[BluOgre]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

The biggest news is the interview that the PS3 is only halfway through its cycle and it being way too early to discuss the PS4 per head of Sony UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...views-part-two

PS3 has "many years to come." Ray Maguire and Ian Livingstone interview – part two
The second part of our chat with the chair and deputy chair of Bafta's video game committee. Today: is the industry being creative enough? March, 15, 2011


This is the part of the interview that pertains to the PS3/PS4.

And as a console manufacturer, how does the constant evolution of technology affect your business? How will you build PlayStation 4 to allow for the creation of new game types?
RM: It's the same conversation as it was for PlayStation 1, 2 and 3. With the amount of money required nowadays to develop and launch a new platform, you have to have a long lifecycle. With PS1, launched in 1995, we ended up with a seven year active lifecycle and a 10 year overall lifecycle. When we set out to invent a new platform, often it's something we can't actually make yet, because technology hasn't got us into a position where we can make silicon that thin, or where we can manage that amount of heat or power.

PlayStation 3 was the classic example – nobody else could create it for us so we had to build a fabrication plant to make it ourselves. And then there's a learning curve of how to use the technology to get the most out of it – so classically at the launch you'll get one or two brilliant games then a lot that struggle to use the power because it's complicated. Right now, we're seeing a lot of the power of PS3 being used so the games are looking great, and that's good for third-party publishers as they start to make good money on the big winners.

Where we go after this is an interesting one. The online side is very interesting and is a big part of our business going forward. But in terms of what sort of technology we'll be using, it's far too early to say yet because we're only half way through the lifecycle of PS3 – there are many years to come on that machine.

I hope you guys all understand that Sony will deny as long as possible because in their eyes talking about PS4 in any way shape or form takes away potential business from the PS3. You want potential customers thinking of buying the PS3 and not holding off because the PS4 will be released in the next couple of years. Kind of like Nintendo releasing a new gameboy but at the same time announcing the 3DS being released next year.......rookie mistake when you are competing with yourself.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by BluOgre

I hope you guys all understand that Sony will deny as long as possible because in their eyes talking about PS4 in any way shape or form takes away potential business from the PS3. You want potential customers thinking of buying the PS3 and not holding off because the PS4 will be released in the next couple of years. Kind of like Nintendo releasing a new gameboy but at the same time announcing the 3DS being released next year.......rookie mistake when you are competing with yourself.

Just like I hope you realize that Sony is in a much worse financial state now vs when it was developing the PS3.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...opment-for-PS4

Sony CFO Masaru Kato indicated that when Sony was developing the PS3, seeking outside partners for chip manufacture wasn't really feasible. However, the situation for the PS4 was different and the idea of investing so much money upfront into the company's next console was unthinkable.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3...yStation_4.php


According to Japanese business newspaper Nikkei (as translated by Andriasang), Kato told investors today that the company would not have the same level of financial investment in its future products as it did with the PlayStation 3.

"It is no longer thinkable to have a huge initial financial investment like that of the PS3," he said, allegedly in response to a question about whether the games division would retain its profitability.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Just like I hope you realize that Sony is in a much worse financial state now vs when it was developing the PS3.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...opment-for-PS4

Sony CFO Masaru Kato indicated that when Sony was developing the PS3, seeking outside partners for chip manufacture wasn't really feasible. However, the situation for the PS4 was different and the idea of investing so much money upfront into the company's next console was unthinkable.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3...yStation_4.php


According to Japanese business newspaper Nikkei (as translated by Andriasang), Kato told investors today that the company would not have the same level of financial investment in its future products as it did with the PlayStation 3.

"It is no longer thinkable to have a huge initial financial investment like that of the PS3," he said, allegedly in response to a question about whether the games division would retain its profitability.

BluOgre is right though. Companies don't talk about future product until they're actually ready to launch it, because it often kills sales of the "older" item. In fact, they'll deny it to your face until the moment they decide they're ready.

This phenomenon even has a name: The Osborne Effect

If you're not familiar with it, click the link and learn some business history in the process.

This is also the reason why you never see console manufacturers acknowledge impending price cuts that everyone suspects are coming until the day those price cuts happen.

Also: Considering the PlayStation division is currently profitable, and they are undoubtedly working on the PS4 even if they're not admitting to it (it takes years to design a console, and set up for developers to produce games for them), they must be doing something right. It's also worth noting that the PS3 suffered from a huge development cost incurred partially from the Cell Broadband Engine chip development, but primarily from the inclusion of the Blu-ray drive upon which this entire site revolves around.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Of course they aren't going 100% DL but I don't think they are going Blue-ray either based on their most recent comments. We'll just have to wait and see.

They aren't going to use DVD either. That format is not good enough for gaming anymore.

The ONLY way they can use DVD is if they make a hard drive mandatory and require game installs then they can maybe get by with dvd.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by merrick97

They aren't going to use DVD either. That format is not good enough for gaming anymore.

The ONLY way they can use DVD is if they make a hard drive mandatory and require game installs then they can maybe get by with dvd.

Who said DVD?


The PS3 was announced and shown 18 months before it went on sale at 2005, E3, while they were still selling the PS2. I guess they weren't using the Obsorne Effect then.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Who said DVD?


The PS3 was announced and shown 18 months before it went on sale at 2005, E3, while they were still selling the PS2. I guess they weren't using the Obsorne Effect then.

The PS2 was down to $149 by then and the PS3 was announced at $499 and $599 respectively. The PS3 had no chance of ruining any PS2 sales.


Big difference.

[SkillzthatKillz]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Who said DVD?


The PS3 was announced and shown 18 months before it went on sale at 2005, E3, while they were still selling the PS2. I guess they weren't using the Obsorne Effect then.

That's because MS was launching the 360 later that year and Sony did not want them to have the spotlight all to themselves. I would bet my left nut that Sony is developing the PS4 right now and the Microsoft is working on the nextbox (or whatever they call it).

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by SkillzthatKillz

That's because MS was launching the 360 later that year and Sony did not want them to have the spotlight all to themselves. I would bet my left nut that Sony is developing the PS4 right now and the Microsoft is working on the nextbox (or whatever they call it).

The next PS3 console is not going to be as costly as the PS3 was at launch. Sony was supposed to drop the price of the PS3 another $50 this fall. So you are talking a $250 console and perhaps a $350 or $399 console, not that big a difference.


I read where EA has a very early working model of the next gen Microsoft console, in a desktop housing. But I read it on the Internets so it can't be true. .

YouTube - ‪Rumors on the internets‬‏

[bhampton]

I'm thinking they should hold off developing PS4 till they can fix the currently broken PS Store.


=Brian

[Clark Kent]

The next Microsoft console will use Blu-ray, that you can book. As others have said, it would eliminate too many potential customers in the next five years if a manufacturer went to a straight streaming/download model by bypassing physical media. Videogame consoles are intended to be played by as wide an audience as possible. It is not the same market as the elite PC gaming market.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

The next Microsoft console will use Blu-ray, that you can book. As others have said, it would eliminate too many potential customers in the next five years if a manufacturer went to a straight streaming/download model by bypassing physical media. Videogame consoles are intended to be played by as wide an audience as possible. It is not the same market as the elite PC gaming market.

No one said straight download, but find 1 thing out of Microsoft that says they will go with Blu-ray. Just one. They have said that they were glad they didn't use Blu-ray in the XBOX, its success shows along with a lower price point. They think it is a "dying" technology.

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

No one said straight download, but find 1 thing out of Microsoft that says they will go with Blu-ray. Just one.

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Right, they will most likely come up with another. This new one is triple layered and geared toward anti-piracy. Obviously limited in what they can do now with the current console.

Where's your evidence for this? Using an existing format would be much more cost efficient, regardless of licensing fees. We don't have proof. We're just trying to be logical. Using HD-DVD is also a possibility. To be honest, if MS had used HD-DVD as the 360 media we probably wouldn't be here on this site right now. Big mistake on their part.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by binarymelon

Where's your evidence for this? Using an existing format would be much more cost efficient, regardless of licensing fees. We don't have proof. We're just trying to be logical. Using HD-DVD is also a possibility. To be honest, if MS had used HD-DVD as the 360 media we probably wouldn't be here on this site right now. Big mistake on their part.

I find it amazing that Microsoft can get 10x the data out of a DVD as it is. 7-8 GB on a regular DVD.

They use DVD-9, speculation is they may go to DVD-18, double sided. http://xbox360.gamespy.com/articles/115/1158352p1.html

It would have been more cost efficient to not make your own processor like Sony did for the PS3. They sold 50 million units, probably 3/4 at a loss.

They may use HD DVD. Point is I doubt they are using Blu-ray after what they have said about it repeatedly.

Using an existing technology hasn't stopped Nintendo. Game cartridges, etc.. They said they are using a 25gb medium on their next console, won't confirm or deny if its Blu ray based.

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

I find it amazing that Microsoft can get 10x the data out of a DVD as it is. 7-8 GB on a regular DVD.

I don't understand what you're trying to say with this statement.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by binarymelon

I don't understand what you're trying to say with this statement.

Sorry, I was thinking CD. Double layer, double sided, DVD-18 can hold 17 GB of data.

Here is an article about the new XBOX media to most likely be a piracy fix.

http://www.vg247.com/2011/03/29/xbox...copy-of-reach/

[Septimus Prime]

Whatever disc format the next Xbox will use, I'm sure it will at least be compatible with BD movies so that the Xbox 720 or whatever can claim feature parity with its main competitor. It would be a dumb move to release something new that doesn't even have a feature of its years-old competitor, and MS isn't stupid.