Engineering Management vs Computer Engineering/MBA

[linkgx1]

This is kind of a sequel to my other thread.....

So I'm really trying to decide on what to do. I love both career options. Though I love business slightly above engineering. I'm just not sure if I should go after one of two options: Get a degree in Engineering Management, then get an MBA. Or get a degree in Computer Engineering, then get an MBA. This is assuming that I get accepted into an MBA program, despite lack of work field-I'll leave that to fate.

My issue is that the BA in Business Admin is crowded (slightly?). I see more oppurtunity in computer engineering...at least with an undergrad.

Also, the school I want to go to is the first university to have an engineering managment degree. Anybody have any suggestions or tips?

[wilky61]

Right now, it doesn't matter. Make the decision after you're already at the school and have a better idea/advisers to talk to... everybody changes majors in college at least once.

[My_Two_Cents]

I don't see why another thread is necessary, as the recommendations and advice isn't going to change.

IMO, a degree in "Engineering Management" is pretty much worthless. If you think you're going to graduate from college and be given an engineering management position, you'll be in for a very rude awakening. Most engineering and technical managers (managing some type of technical group of engineers) have worked their way up the ranks, and are typically the most knowledgeable and experienced engineers in the company. These folks typically have a minimum of 6-10 years (or more) experience in the particular field they are managing. The term "pay your dues" is doubly applicable in the fields of engineering. Experience is everything. Expect to be a grunt for your first 3-5 years or more, depending on your field and the company.

An MBA may or may not buy you anything in an engineering position. I've known countless engineers with MBAs in my 25+ years in the real world, and in most cases, those degrees have done nothing for them. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've not seen very many. If nothing else, an MBA would give a candidate an advantage (assuming all else equal) in a job interview. Of course, my comments are based on someone who wishes to continue in the field of engineering. If you wish to branch-out down the road into sales/marketing, production management or something like that, an MBA certainly would not hurt.

The bottom line is an engineering degree in a REAL technical field should always be good for a decent job, assuming you are competent in your field, play well with others, not a douche, etc. Computer engineering is one of the more growing fields, so I would expect there to be a good supply of jobs out there to choose from once you graduate. Get your real engineering degree, start working and find yourself a company with a good tuition reimbursement program so they can cover the cost of an MBA (assuming you still want one by then). No one should have to pay for their MBA these days, though you need to really understand just what it can/will buy you once you get it. That's a lot of work simply to have another set of initials on your resume, and it's not an automatic 10-20% salary bump some think it is.

twocents.gif from someone who's seen how it works in the real world.

[AeroK]

The path I took: Graphic Design->Undeclared->Political Science/Government ->General Studies->Clinical Laboratory Science

That list is just official changes in my major and doesn't include classes in areas I dabbled in while searching for a new major. That includes classes in CIS, Business, Economics, Radiology, Psychology. I have enough credit hours to probably get a couple other degrees relatively fast if I were to go back to school.

Looking back, my biggest mistake personally was going with my gut and majoring in things that I thought would be interesting instead of what would be job security in the future. In high school they made me take a personality test that gave me insight in what field I would theoretically enjoy (see Office Space). Unfortunately in my case, art is a nice hobby but it's not something that would be a career where I live. CLS gives me job security because there's a huge shortage because most people who go into health care usually take Nursing or Radiology so it's not flooded with other applicants. I also have the ability to relocate almost anywhere because no matter where you go there will always be sick people...it's unfortunate but it's true.

In conclusion my advice would be to go into something that
1. has job security for the foreseeable future
2. allows you to relocate
3. not flooded by competition

[linkgx1]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

I don't see why another thread is necessary, as the recommendations and advice isn't going to change.

But the people will? To be honest the topic wasn't the best attractor.

IMO, a degree in "Engineering Management" is pretty much worthless. If you think you're going to graduate from college and be given an engineering management position, you'll be in for a very rude awakening. Most engineering and technical managers (managing some type of technical group of engineers) have worked their way up the ranks, and are typically the most knowledgeable and experienced engineers in the company. These folks typically have a minimum of 6-10 years (or more) experience in the particular field they are managing. The term "pay your dues" is doubly applicable in the fields of engineering. Experience is everything. Expect to be a grunt for your first 3-5 years or more, depending on your field and the company.

That may be true, but I'm only saying so because of the jobs many of the Alumin have from what I seen. I also contacted the Alumni from that degree and they are doing quite well in managment or just having their own business. Of course, I'm just wondering it this is just because of their passion. Also, I became incredibly interested because to my surprise MIT has the degree. It's a realitively young degree as it's not even 50 years old yet but it's being adopted very fast.

An MBA may or may not buy you anything in an engineering position. I've known countless engineers with MBAs in my 25+ years in the real world, and in most cases, those degrees have done nothing for them. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've not seen very many. If nothing else, an MBA would give a candidate an advantage (assuming all else equal) in a job interview. Of course, my comments are based on someone who wishes to continue in the field of engineering. If you wish to branch-out down the road into sales/marketing, production management or something like that, an MBA certainly would not hurt.
Well, really I want to branch out. Marketing/business managment is a slight stronger passion of mine, but I don't want to be stupid. Yes, I know some people get degrees with BA in Business Administration. But I just want something more technical, that at least gets me a sustainable job(until they ship it to China). I just know people who went through college, graduated to only have their degree worth nothing.

The bottom line is an engineering degree in a REAL technical field should always be good for a decent job, assuming you are competent in your field, play well with others, not a douche, etc. Computer engineering is one of the more growing fields, so I would expect there to be a good supply of jobs out there to choose from once you graduate. Get your real engineering degree, start working and find yourself a company with a good tuition reimbursement program so they can cover the cost of an MBA (assuming you still want one by then). No one should have to pay for their MBA these days, though you need to really understand just what it can/will buy you once you get it. That's a lot of work simply to have another set of initials on your resume, and it's not an automatic 10-20% salary bump some think it is.

I've always loved computers and science (astronomy,etc). But I more or less management/marketing even more. My ultimate dream? Have my own tech company. But I'll need to the funding! And starts fail higher than 1st grader in a physics class.Not sure if it's the hardware or software side. But that's it. Or even just being management at a company......and I prefer upper level. Not lower tier........at Walmart. (Though I had no idea that a Walmart manager can make around $300,000 a year). I know ya'll gotta start from somewhere.

But I want to be practical, tie my camel before I leave.

After researching, I've come across with a blended degree there's an underlying issue. You're not extremely technical....so it's hard to get a technical job per say. But then you have knowlege of business....but maybe not as much as someone with a BA in Business Admin. That's the issue I see there. Attachment 34665 from someone who's seen how it works in the real world.

The main issue I have is that I have a passion for both things and I'm not exactly sure how to blend them. I think the best way to sum it up is Apple. There's a lot of engineering I love that goes into it their products and I love the way they market their products. I really need to cut down on my likes.

[linkgx1]

Originally Posted by AeroK

The path I took: Graphic Design->Undeclared->Political Science/Government ->General Studies->Clinical Laboratory Science

That list is just official changes in my major and doesn't include classes in areas I dabbled in while searching for a new major. That includes classes in CIS, Business, Economics, Radiology, Psychology. I have enough credit hours to probably get a couple other degrees relatively fast if I were to go back to school.

Looking back, my biggest mistake personally was going with my gut and majoring in things that I thought would be interesting instead of what would be job security in the future. In high school they made me take a personality test that gave me insight in what field I would theoretically enjoy (see Office Space). Unfortunately in my case, art is a nice hobby but it's not something that would be a career where I live. CLS gives me job security because there's a huge shortage because most people who go into health care usually take Nursing or Radiology so it's not flooded with other applicants. I also have the ability to relocate almost anywhere because no matter where you go there will always be sick people...it's unfortunate but it's true.

In conclusion my advice would be to go into something that
1. has job security for the foreseeable future
2. allows you to relocate
3. not flooded by competition

This is what I'm talking about. People always say you should follow you passion. But at the end of the day a job is just a job right?

I orignally wanted to do graphic design too! Until I learned of the starving artist.

I want to do Business Administration, but that takes experience to get something decent? I just don't want to pay the same amount for a degree, and get less back. With computer engineering, I could move back to seattle, or go to Cali. Business is something I see that I can always do later or as a minor.

It's like I have an oppurtunity now, why not take it? It's not like I can't change careers two years after I recieve mah degree right? I know plenty of people with an engineering degree that aren't working in that field.

I love business administration, but too many people are in that field and too many people want to be at the top. For example, MIT/Havard and other Ivy Leagues accept more people with engineering degrees into their MBA program than a business major.

[beefytwinkie]

You keep mentioning a BA in Business Administration. What exactly is that? My minor in college was Business Administration but that's because all it entailed was taking all the requirements of my major to graduate. (Finance 101, Economics, Micro/Macro Economics, Accounting.) If you do decide to pursue a degree in business, you should try to pick a concentration - marketing, finance, accounting, or economics. You said you were interested in marketing so that may be a good choice.

Cool story about a friend of mine: He went into college saying he was going to do computer science/a whole bunch of computer programming and stuff because his ultimate dream job would be to work for a Japanese video game development company like Square Enix or Namco Bandai. So he does all the classes, graduates summa cum laude... and now he works at Lockheed Martin doing things he's not allowed to talk to us about. He loves it. He said he never had a chance to try out his "dream job" but now, he is at his dream job. Things have a way of working themselves out.

[linkgx1]

Originally Posted by beefytwinkie

You keep mentioning a BA in Business Administration. What exactly is that? My minor in college was Business Administration but that's because all it entailed was taking all the requirements of my major to graduate. (Finance 101, Economics, Micro/Macro Economics, Accounting.) If you do decide to pursue a degree in business, you should try to pick a concentration - marketing, finance, accounting, or economics. You said you were interested in marketing so that may be a good choice.

Cool story about a friend of mine: He went into college saying he was going to do computer science/a whole bunch of computer programming and stuff because his ultimate dream job would be to work for a Japanese video game development company like Square Enix or Namco Bandai. So he does all the classes, graduates summa cum laude... and now he works at Lockheed Martin doing things he's not allowed to talk to us about. He loves it. He said he never had a chance to try out his "dream job" but now, he is at his dream job. Things have a way of working themselves out.

Sounds like me. I guess I should just let life flow. I just get anxious at times.

Excuse me igorance but what does Lockheed Martin do exactly? Don't they make defense stuff?

[linkgx1]

To let you peer into me mind, here's a few job descrpitions/postings that peek me interest.



Job title: New Products PM - iPad
Job description:
Join the fast-paced iPad Product Operations team. New Product Operations is pivotal to the fast-paced development and launch of Apple's products. A successful NPO Manager is a natural leader and facilitator; is driven, organized and detail oriented; excels in program/ project management; communicates with ease at all levels; thrives in an ambiguous environment; is adept at facilitating actions and resolving conflicts; manages through relationships and influence: and displays grace under fire.

You will lead the Team within WW Operations and be the primary operations interface to the core product development team and other functional organizations within Apple. As the owner of the product, either through direct involvement and/or influence, you will ensure the successful launch of the product towards meeting it's stated Cost, Quality, Schedule, Availability and Customer Experience goals.

Responsibilities:
• Lead ramp availability for all iPad modules with GSM, SQE, TPM and other internal and external teams by ensuring security, materials, equipment, fixtures, staffing, training, documentation plans are in place; 30% travel to Asia may be required.
• Drive responsive supply chains that are optimized for lowest costs, operational flexibility and high quality.
• Assess, analyze, consolidate, and communicate risk and status clearly and succinctly to management, escalating key issues and presenting options for resolution to the cross-functional executive team through the new product reviews.
• Successful candidates will have the following attributes: exceptional ability to build relationships; clear, consistent communication; data-driven and action-oriented; enthusiastic and motivated; and detail-oriented while managing several work-streams.
•Experience working with off-shore manufacturers and traveling to manufacturing sites
•5+ years of industry experience in one or more of the following disciplines: New Product Introduction / Supply Chain Management / Manufacturing Operations
•BS or MS degree in Engineering •MBA preferred •Fluency in Mandarin Chinese preferred

[beefytwinkie]

That description sounds great and a lot of fun. The thing is that job requires a lot of experience. I hope you're not thinking you'll get a job like that straight out of school. You can graduate with a 4.0 from the best school in the country but without the experience, you won't even be considered for that position.

If I was you, look at entry level positions and what they require and their functions to get an idea as to what you wish to study. As Ricshoe mentioned earlier, you have to "pay your dues" so to speak and those entry-level positions will weed out those who are not as productive. Who knows? Maybe you'll hate the entry level positions required to make it to a position like the one you mentioned. Like you said, go with the flow but you gotta do a whole lot of work while "flowing."

Edit: Forgot to mention: Lockheed Martin is a defense contractor. I'm sure they do other stuff as well but I think security and defense is big on their list.

[linkgx1]

Originally Posted by beefytwinkie

That description sounds great and a lot of fun. The thing is that job requires a lot of experience. I hope you're not thinking you'll get a job like that straight out of school. You can graduate with a 4.0 from the best school in the country but without the experience, you won't even be considered for that position.
Yeah, yeah I know. Much of them want around 6-8 years experience. Which isn't too bad. Which makes the point of why I don't get why school even exists? I'm talking college since the experience is needed anywho? What happened to the old days of apprentenciship?
If I was you, look at entry level positions and what they require and their functions to get an idea as to what you wish to study. As Ricshoe mentioned earlier, you have to "pay your dues" so to speak and those entry-level positions will weed out those who are not as productive. Who knows? Maybe you'll hate the entry level positions required to make it to a position like the one you mentioned. Like you said, go with the flow but you gotta do a whole lot of work while "flowing."

Question, would it be legal to sleep my way to the top? That'll make everything easier. We just need more. I think I really need to do some internships to flap mah wings.
Edit: Forgot to mention: Lockheed Martin is a defense contractor. I'm sure they do other stuff as well but I think security and defense is big on their list.

Uh oh

[kefrank]

Get the computer engineering degree in undergrad. Get a job with a company that will pay for your MBA. Get the MBA for free while gaining valuable engineering experience at said company. Pursue your dream position once you're finished with the MBA.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by linkgx1

Yeah, yeah I know. Much of them want around 6-8 years experience. Which isn't too bad. Which makes the point of why I don't get why school even exists? I'm talking college since the experience is needed anywho? What happened to the old days of apprentenciship?

I think I really need to do some internships to flap mah wings.

Not sure what you mean by apprenticeships, as those are more common in the trade fields (electrician, mechanic, carpenter, etc.). Many Engineering schools have co-op programs, which are similar, and really help transition you from student to engineer. If you are looking at an engineering program, I would never consider one without a co-op program. It will probably extend your degree from 4 years to 5, but it's worth every extra year and then some. You graduate with a degree and, depending on the program, up to 1.5 years of practical work experience. I was in a program like that, and the company ended-up hiring me right out of school. Because of my previous experience, I was offered a higher starting salary and was able to hit the ground running.

Some other fields have unpaid internship programs. For these, you need to look at the job as "free education" and not "unpaid work", because that's really what it is. Personally, I'd take a paid co-op position any time!

Regardless of what type of co-op or internship program you may participate in, neither are going to give you the experience, knowledge and understanding of actually working full-time in your degreed field, which is why all non-entry-level positions require it. As Beefy said, "go with the flow but you gotta do a whole lot of work while flowing." There are no free rides in the workforce, particularly in today's high unemployment environment. In general, new graduates will find themselves working longer in lower level positions, simply due to the larger number of more experience people available to fill the higher level positions.

I think kefrank above has clearly and succinctly summed-up everything mentioned in this thread (and the other). Good advice.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Not sure what you mean by apprenticeships, as those are more common in the trade fields (electrician, mechanic, carpenter, etc.). Many Engineering schools have co-op programs, which are similar, and really help transition you from student to engineer. If you are looking at an engineering program, I would never consider one without a co-op program. It will probably extend your degree from 4 years to 5, but it's worth every extra year and then some. You graduate with a degree and, depending on the program, up to 1.5 years of practical work experience. I was in a program like that, and the company ended-up hiring me right out of school. Because of my previous experience, I was offered a higher starting salary and was able to hit the ground running.

Some other fields have unpaid internship programs. For these, you need to look at the job as "free education" and not "unpaid work", because that's really what it is. Personally, I'd take a paid co-op position any time!

Regardless of what type of co-op or internship program you may participate in, neither are going to give you the experience, knowledge and understanding of actually working full-time in your degreed field, which is why all non-entry-level positions require it. As Beefy said, "go with the flow but you gotta do a whole lot of work while flowing." There are no free rides in the workforce, particularly in today's high unemployment environment. In general, new graduates will find themselves working longer in lower level positions, simply due to the larger number of more experience people available to fill the higher level positions.

I think kefrank above has clearly and succinctly summed-up everything mentioned in this thread (and the other). Good advice.

The bold is so true.

Link if you don't mind my asking, how old are you? You do seem to be quite anxious about all of this; I'm siding with the "go with the flow" crowd.

Also, I've seen you mention MIT a few times. I think it's cool that you have lofty goals, but don't get hung up too much on one school cause there are also schools out there like Michigan, GT, Penn State, your favorite California school, etc. Are there any engineering schools in your state? Are you like a valedictorian-type?

[beefytwinkie]

I also noticed you mentioned MIT a few times. Just curious and I'd like to ask: Are you in high school now? Are you in college? What are your grades like? SAT scores? ACT?

I only know two people who attend(ed) MIT and they both tell me getting in there is no joke. Not only do you have to have the grades you need to stand out from the crowd (i.e. - extracurricular activities.) From their site, they indicate an application population of about 16,600 applicants, they only admitted less than 1,700. Roughly ten percent. If you're set on MIT, I hope you have your crap in order.

But as wilky61 said, there are many other schools to consider. And I don't want to put words in Ricshoe's mouth but he's got as many years of experience working as I have been alive so I bet he can really point you in the right direction and give you really good advice. I'm sure there are many others on this site who can help you as well. You just have to ask the right questions.

That's why I love this site. So many people from different walks of life helping each other not only in HT! And most are cool to boot.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by beefytwinkie

And I don't want to put words in Ricshoe's mouth but he's got as many years of experience working as I have been alive so I bet he can really point you in the right direction and give you really good advice.

Now wait just a cotton-pickin' minute there, sonny! Old.gif

LOL. One thing that really helped me while in school was all of the first-hand knowledge, experience and advice I received from the 'seasoned' engineers I worked with while co-op'ing.

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Get the BS in engineering. A BA is essentially worthless in the current economic climate in the States. This is anecdotal, but all of my old high school friends who chose these types of majors are doing anything with them ( lol at the art majors). I saw one working at Chick-Fil-A and he has a degree in marketing. What possessed him to waste time and thousands of dollars on that is beyond me. Earning a BS in computer engineering is the safest bet for job opportunities straight out of graduation.

[wilky61]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

Get the BS in engineering. A BA is essentially worthless in the current economic climate in the States. This is anecdotal, but all of my old high school friends who chose these types of majors are doing anything with them ( lol at the art majors). I saw one working at Chick-Fil-A and he has a degree in marketing. What possessed him to waste time and thousands of dollars on that is beyond me. Earning a BS in computer engineering is the safest bet for job opportunities straight out of graduation.

I'm on board with that. A BS (Bachelor of Science) is no joke anywhere.

My girlfriend graduated with a BS International Affairs and a 2.59gpa from Georgia Tech and not only got into law school but also a $10,000/yr scholarship. (GT only offers BS degrees, and she scored well on the LSAT.)

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

I saw one working at Chick-Fil-A and he has a degree in marketing.

Well, of all the jobs to land with a worthless degree, Chick-Fil-A is among the best. I worked there in high school and some days I wish I still worked there, even with my computer engineering degree.

[linkgx1]

Anybody has anytips regarding studying? Or rather , focus? That's my main issue. I get easily distracted. I can do hard work if I focus. I can get motivated, but lack focus. But once I'm focused, it's like I'm unstoppable. Maybe because I still trying to figure out 100% what to do. In High School I knew I had to get a good GPA for college and because my friends had high GPAs. Now, I'm just at school just to be there. Maybe I need a godo kick in the rear, I don't kow.